Festool Precisio CS 70 Review

[peter halle]

Michael,

I have read all your posts regarding this and as Alex said you need to find a way to get the saw back to Festool.  I know from reading your posts that it will be inconvenient for you but sometimes that kind of stuff happens in life.

Until you do that you are not going to be happy, shaming Festool on an internet forum into making an exception to their policies probably isn't going to work, and you will still not be able to use the saw in the manner that you hoped to.

Peter 

 

[MichaelW2014]

Gentlemen, thank you for your concern, I really appreciate it. You are right, the saw needs to be seen by a tech if this is their policy. But, they should come to me, and their own tech here in athens declared it is obvious that it needs to be replaced or repaired. I have this in writing via email.

Nonetheless, my retailer relinquished the email address for her colleague at festool. Yesterday I emailed him directly. My email was forwarded to another person who wrote me a long and considerate letter. I have attached it below. I want to be fair about this situation. All I want is a tool that does what it is supposed to do. A fence that sits at exactly 90 degrees with the table is an obvious requirement for a table saw, in my opinion, especially at the price I paid ($2,400).

So, they are going to take care of the situation by replacing the entire machine. It seems they will "probably" pay for shipping; but I await finally word on that today. 

 

[MichaelW2014]

Dear Mr. Rowan Wood,

First of all I want to apologize for the long handling time in that case.
Unfortunately I have no contact data than your e-mail address.
Otherwise I would have contacted you personally.
We know that this is an unsatisfactory situation for you.
I think that we had a communication problem and misunderstood each other.

We did an analysis to understand your problem with the CS 70 here in our factory where we produce the saws.
Probably your machine is affected with an machining error, which causes your mentioned gaps.
However to be sure it is necessary to have the affected CS 70 incl. fence in our workshop. In order to keep you workable quick we created the following offer.

Our proposal 1:
We will send you a brand new CS 70, which is checked by the quality department in detail, so you can go on with your working.
However you will receive an invoice for the new CS 70.
Afterwards it would be great, if you will send the affected CS 70 incl. fence to my hands for further analysis.
After receiving the affected CS 70 you will get credit advice, so there is no disadvantage for you.

Proposal 2:
You will send the affected CS 70 incl. fence to my hands.
After receiving the affected CS 70, we will send you a brand new CS 70, which is checked by the quality department in detail, so you can go on with your working.

After checking the affected machine, we will appreciate your effort in that case (sending the machine to Germany) e.g. with consumable material.
Probably it is also possible to handle the transportation with our DHL-account. I will check this tomorrow.

Did you already register your affected machine?
If yes, we will organize the re-registration to your new CS 70, so you will have no other problems with that.

I hope that my clarification above helps you to understand, that your concern is very important to us and we are willing to help you.

If you have any questions do not hesitate to contact me.

Kind regards

David Kiel

 

[sancho57]

Sounds like they are taking care of you and the situation

 

[MichaelW2014]

Until you do that you are not going to be happy, shaming Festool on an internet forum into making an exception to their policies probably isn't going to work, and you will still not be able to use the saw in the manner that you hoped to.

If someone has reason to shame a company then the company should be shamed. My customers are rarely displeased with my service because I give them exactly what they pay for. When a company deceives it's customer or fails to make good on an agreement, then they should be shamed, and more.

I bought a saw. The saw does not do what it should do. It is their responsibility to make sure that this saw does what I paid for. If it doesn't, then seller has violated the terms of the sale. If it doesn't, then it is not an arm's length transaction.

All within reason, yes, but when something is obvious, then there should not be a two month struggle, or whatnot.

I say this with all due respect, Peter. I am frustrated and distressed by this situation. I don't have much patience left for Festool. I think they dropped the ball on me. I don't like being treated like this by big companies. I love that the internet revolution has put more power in the hands of customers.

 

[MichaelW2014]

Sounds like they are taking care of you and the situation

I'm cautiously optimistic. But about twenty minutes ago I received a message from another person at festool who offers a different course of action, much less friendly and one which could lead to further problems, thus turning this two or three month contention into a much longer struggle for 90 degrees. Obviously if i were a rich man i would just buy a new miter fence and hope it works.

 

[Big G]

Festool has requested more proof of the problem with my miter fence. I took these images today.

Here you see there is 2mm+ of feeler gauges under the fence.
[attachimg=1]

You have to lift a 300mm triangular square by 2mm to make it perpendicular to your fence which roughly relates to the fence being about 1/3 mm out top to bottom, no wonder Festool refuse to replace it, it is well inside the requires tolerances of a guide fence. By the way I need a 6mm packer to get mine perpendicular and I have never experienced any problems in ripping something to size.

 

[rizzoa13]

If you acted a little less entitled then people (in general) would be more inclined to help you. Your acting like a child by trying to bad mouth a company on the Internet while simultaneously stating "they should come to me." You were able to get the saw home when you bought it so your perfectly capable of figuring out a way to get it back to them. Try being a little more human it'll get you far in life.

 

[MichaelW2014]

Festool has requested more proof of the problem with my miter fence. I took these images today.

Here you see there is 2mm+ of feeler gauges under the fence.
[attachimg=1]

You have to lift a 300mm triangular square by 2mm to make it perpendicular to your fence which roughly relates to the fence being about 1/3 mm out top to bottom, no wonder Festool refuse to replace it, it is well inside the requires tolerances of a guide fence. By the way I need a 6mm packer to get mine perpendicular and I have never experienced any problems in ripping something to size.

If you think that is ok for a 2,000E machine then I wonder what kind of work you make. That is not acceptable for me.

 

[MichaelW2014]

If you acted a little less entitled then people (in general) would be more inclined to help you. Your acting like a child by trying to bad mouth a company on the Internet while simultaneously stating "they should come to me." You were able to get the saw home when you bought it so your perfectly capable of figuring out a way to get it back to them. Try being a little more human it'll get you far in life.

I have been honest, human and fair. I have tried to be reasonable while at same time standing up for what I believe is right. I am not acting entitled and I think that your perception is wrong. Maybe you are so accustomed to getting reamed by companies that you no longer see it as a bad thing. You think that is the norm, and you accept it/like it.

am not going to repeat myself again on this subject and explain and defend my position once again. I have a fence that is not right. I bought a machine that is supposed to be accurate. I didn't get what I paid for. Whose fault is that?

 

[MichaelW2014]

If you acted a little less entitled then people (in general) would be more inclined to help you. Your acting like a child by trying to bad mouth a company on the Internet while simultaneously stating "they should come to me." You were able to get the saw home when you bought it so your perfectly capable of figuring out a way to get it back to them. Try being a little more human it'll get you far in life.

also, this thing is blown way out of proportion because they dropped the ball. they should have just sent me a new miter fence and called it a day. hopefully it would've been 90 degrees and in turn this thread would have been much shorter. how much would that have cost them, 20 euros (including shipping)? I don't know, not very much.

 

[Holmz]

All roads lead to Rome, but they may not send a tech to Athens.
Just imagine if you were in Australia.

At least they gave you a couple of options. That is a good start.

 

[MichaelW2014]

All roads lead to Rome, but they may not send a tech to Athens.
Just imagine if you were in Australia.

At least they gave you a couple of options. That is a good start.

I feel pretty confident it will get sorted out, one way or another. Lessons learned.

I am very grateful to the community here and all who have offered their advice, input and opinion. This website/forum is very important to me.

 

[Big G]

Festool has requested more proof of the problem with my miter fence. I took these images today.

Here you see there is 2mm+ of feeler gauges under the fence.
[attachimg=1]

You have to lift a 300mm triangular square by 2mm to make it perpendicular to your fence which roughly relates to the fence being about 1/3 mm out top to bottom, no wonder Festool refuse to replace it, it is well inside the requires tolerances of a guide fence. By the way I need a 6mm packer to get mine perpendicular and I have never experienced any problems in ripping something to size.

If you think that is ok for a 2,000E machine then I wonder what kind of work you make. That is not acceptable for me.

The CS 70 is only really suitable for out site or temporarily shop based due to the limitations of a 70mm underpowered cutting capacity.
It cuts 50mm timbers quite well, but is really suitable for roughing down trimming timbers, flooring etc which can then be sized either by hand or through a planer : thickener.
I have 30 odd years in joinery manufacturing so cutting timbers to 1 or 2 mm tolerances is the norm so please tell me what you do with a roughing saw that requires accuracy of better than 1/3 of a millimetre

 

[MichaelW2014]

Festool has requested more proof of the problem with my miter fence. I took these images today.

Here you see there is 2mm+ of feeler gauges under the fence.
[attachimg=1]

You have to lift a 300mm triangular square by 2mm to make it perpendicular to your fence which roughly relates to the fence being about 1/3 mm out top to bottom, no wonder Festool refuse to replace it, it is well inside the requires tolerances of a guide fence. By the way I need a 6mm packer to get mine perpendicular and I have never experienced any problems in ripping something to size.

If you think that is ok for a 2,000E machine then I wonder what kind of work you make. That is not acceptable for me.

The CS 70 is only really suitable for out site or temporarily shop based due to the limitations of a 70mm underpowered cutting capacity.
It cuts 50mm timbers quite well, but is really suitable for roughing down trimming timbers, flooring etc which can then be sized either by hand or through a planer : thickener.
I have 30 odd years in joinery manufacturing so cutting timbers to 1 or 2 mm tolerances is the norm so please tell me what you do with a roughing saw that requires accuracy of better than 1/3 of a millimetre

Ok. We have a difference of opinion. That's all. No hard feelings. I am not a builder. I make picture frames and furniture. I need precision. That is what i expected when i bought my machine. I am repeating myself a lot. I don't think I am being unrealistic by asking for a fence that is exactly 90 degrees. I think that is reasonable. That's all man.

I would rather be picking your mind on how to do things than arguing with you about what is right in this situation. I am sorry to bring this stress.

 

[Big G]

Festool has requested more proof of the problem with my miter fence. I took these images today.

Here you see there is 2mm+ of feeler gauges under the fence.
[attachimg=1]

You have to lift a 300mm triangular square by 2mm to make it perpendicular to your fence which roughly relates to the fence being about 1/3 mm out top to bottom, no wonder Festool refuse to replace it, it is well inside the requires tolerances of a guide fence. By the way I need a 6mm packer to get mine perpendicular and I have never experienced any problems in ripping something to size.

If you think that is ok for a 2,000E machine then I wonder what kind of work you make. That is not acceptable for me.

The CS 70 is only really suitable for out site or temporarily shop based due to the limitations of a 70mm underpowered cutting capacity.
It cuts 50mm timbers quite well, but is really suitable for roughing down trimming timbers, flooring etc which can then be sized either by hand or through a planer : thickener.
I have 30 odd years in joinery manufacturing so cutting timbers to 1 or 2 mm tolerances is the norm so please tell me what you do with a roughing saw that requires accuracy of better than 1/3 of a millimetre

Ok. We have a difference of opinion. That's all. No hard feelings. I am not a builder. I make picture frames and furniture. I need precision. That is what i expected when i bought my machine. I am repeating myself a lot. I don't think I am being unrealistic by asking for a fence that is exactly 90 degrees. I think that is reasonable. That's all man.

I would rather be picking your mind on how to do things than arguing with you about what is right in this situation. I am sorry to bring this stress.

Not arguing just commenting on what is classed as acceptable tolerances, still dont see how you need accuracy beyond 1/3 mm for picture framing.
I cut timber for making mouldings similar to picture frame sizes but use them to do built up plinth and architrave profiles but I use a different set up than you, band saw, planer, thickener and finally spindal moulder to build the detailing, personally I think you have the wrong saw for fine work as what you have is a carpenters, joiners saw.

 

[MichaelW2014]

1/3mm is the distance between the square and the fence where there is a gap. Let's neither misrepresent, minimize nor confuse it with the outcome of cutting wood on this machine, which varies depending on how you measure the distance between the blade and the fence, the size of the wood and how big it is once cut. I cannot say it is this or that, but 1/3 is the gap, not the outcome. 2.25-2.75mm is the amount to which the fence needs to be raised in order for the square to be flush against both the fence and the table.

Picture frames need to be perfect. People look closely at them. The miters need to be dead on. A 1/4mm gap is ugly, unacceptable. Furthermore, there is human error. So now you add human error to machine error and 1/4mm turns into 1mm or whatever. So you have to cut twice or three times as much pieces in order to get 1 perfect one. Etc.

I don't care to argue with you anymore nor defend my position. I disagree with you. I paid a hefty price for a "Precisio" that has a fence that is 2.5mm too short. I don't really care about any apologist type of argument.

 

[MichaelW2014]

I have agreed on a plan to resolve the matter with festool. I will send the saw to them and they will send me a new one. Now that I am speaking with someone the customer service is great and I couldn't be happier with the resolution. Hopefully it will all work out in the end and the next fence I receive will be much better.

 

[sancho57]

I agree with rizzola, you came to a message board airing your dirty laundry to the world. I find if you keep it between you and who ever things get done faster with less animosity. I've had some issues with my some of my festools. Kept. It between me and them got settled straight away and no animosity or hard feelings but got respect from them for handling it in professional manner.

 

[MichaelW2014]

I agree with rizzola, you came to a message board airing your dirty laundry to the world. I find if you keep it between you and who ever things get done faster with less animosity. I've had some issues with my some of my festools. Kept. It between me and them got settled straight away and no animosity or hard feelings but got respect from them for handling it in professional manner.

I disagree with you and rizzola. I think people should publish their opinions of tools and all products, for better or for worse and especially when there is a defect. If you keep it to yourself then there is less or no pressure on the company to right the wrong. Also, you are not helping your fellow consumer from making the same mistake you made. Airing your opinion on a forum such as this will either encourage a company to change it's ways or it will lose customers. In the end, generally speaking, reviewing products on the internet does two things: it drives progress in commerce and production; and it creates a better balance of power between consumer and seller. Well made products don't end up in landfills, at least not as quickly, which means good products are good for the environment and poorly made ones are unethical.

I sincerely believe this and I hope you will reconsider your position.