Festool quality?

[Rob-GB]

The problem with 110v Kapex motors in the UK is that most transformers are underpowered in amperage. Try running a CTL-Mini + Kapex on one and it will slow down and refuse to cut efficiently, put them both on a better quality/larger one (also heavier) and it works just fine unless you are running off a long extension lead or plugged into a low amperage circuit.
On a wider field of the issue is that the UK still refuses to let site contractors use 240v tools on site despite the advances in circuit breakers and technology. An issue which causes huge conflicts, most of my kit is 110v but I can't get a 110v DF700 so I have to be further inconvenienced by not being able to use my vac with it the way I prefer or the way the Festool system is supposed to work,  and have to buy and lug around transformers for domestic work and hope they have a socket on the electric cooker ring main.
Lost count of the times my plugging in a transformer has tripped the mains messing with peoples computers or cooker or washing machine.
I have a lot of faith in the quality of Festools which is why I have invested so much money in them. All tools have limitations and not all limitations are the fault of the manufacturer.

Rob.

 

[rizzoa13]

Antss explained it correctly in that I'm a site carpenter bouncing around from expensive home to expensive home (you should see the electrical room in some of these places) and I shoot the sh*t with plenty of different tradesmen. I've never heard a guy say they killed a dewalt, Milwaukee or Bosch miter saw. These saws just don't see the kind of continuous motor strain that a jobsite tablesaw or a circular saw see so they shouldn't be burning up. If heat is building up through repeated fast cuts in small mouldings then some engineer really screwed up. It's makes crosscuts for gods sake come on.

 

[nickao]

Where does this come from?

"Festool's recommendation that short duration highly repetitive cuts be avoided on a mitersaw"

Where is this stated.  I can't believe Festool would ever say something like that as a Miter saw is designed for the task of short repetitive cuts. That's what the saw does best.

Has Festool written this in a manual or stated it anywhere else? This sounds like second hand word of mouth from someone that had an issue. Or one peron that worked at Festool that just said it trying to shut a customer up.

I can't believe it's a Festool position. That's like saying dont use a Rotex to sand or a router to route.

I could see the ads

"The kapex is the most advanced saw on the market if you dont want to cut a lot of parts with it".  It just makes no sense.

 

[six-point socket II]

Hi,

[member=3373]Dovetail65[/member]

I think it all goes back to this post from [member=57769]TylerC[/member]
http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tool-problems/the-life-span/msg449726/#msg449726

We have heard back from the Festool HQ in Germany about this topic. They have taken a deeper look into the number of repairs and the repair causes. All Kapex-related comments on the FOG were also reviewed.

The findings:
While the number of repairs on the Kapex is slightly higher than expected, it is not a systematic problem. Roughly a third of the repairs are related to the motor, and we are currently looking into the root causes. Despite the fact that this is not an unusual concentration, we take this topic very serious because we understand the trouble every non-functioning tool causes for our customers.

Right now it seems the failures are related to a specific usage pattern (rapid cuts in relatively thin pieces of wood opposed to slower cuts in big beams). To verify this, we would like to ask you for your help.

Here is how you can help: If you have experienced a motor burnout or feel the Kapex has served you less than a fair amount of time, please send an email to kapex[member=6061]festool[/member].com with the following information:
[list type=decimal]
[*]Your contact information (name, e-mail, phone number)
[*]What type of work do you mostly use your Kapex for? The more information you can provide, the better. We are especially interested to find out what type of material you are cutting, understand what type of cuts you are mainly doing (rapid cuts in thin material oo more big beams etc.), and how often you are using your saw.
[*]Information on the type of failure and what has been done to fix the failure (repairs after what time etc.)
[*]Do you use a Kapex 110/120 volt model or a 220/240 volt model?
[*]Purchase date or machine numbers if available
[/list]

We appreciate you are taking the time to send us this information. It will help to better understand what leads to these issues.

I highlighted the specific part.

And since we are on the internet, it quickly became: Festool said you can't do highly repetitive cuts (in thin material) on the Kapex. .....  [sad]

Kind regards,
Oliver

 

[peter halle]

My apologies for a mis-statement.  Thank you for finding the post.  I have crossed out that statement in my previous post.

Peter

 

[six-point socket II]

Hi,

You're not to blame [member=1674]Peter Halle[/member]  [smile]

Kind regards,
Oliver

 

[bobfog]

That post was from 23 March last year.

On a totally unrelated note, here is a photograph from the most recent meeting of Festool executives:

[attachimg=1]

 

[Tyler Ernsberger]

That post was from 23 March last year.

On a totally unrelated note, here is a photograph from the most recent meeting of Festool executives:

[attachimg=1]

Very true.  The kapex-gate has totally changed my view of Festool.  I had cash in hand to buy a Kapex and walked away from the purchase.  Seriously the motor issue is related to repeat cuts in thin material.  So saying that its probably not a good saw for interior trim.  Festool response in my option is very arrogant.  Another issue I have with Festool right now is the horrible new and "improved" hose ends that are aweful.

 

[nickao]

Yikes my work consist of resawing all my lumber to 3/8" thick,  planing it a bit after that and then cutting it. My most used  wood thickness is 1/4" to 5/16".

I guess I should not use a Kapex?

My Milwaukee, De Walt and Rigid Slider saws have been making these thin cuts thousands of times a month for over 10 years and all three saws still work  perfectly. They work so well I sold the DeWalt and Rigid within days of putting them for sale. Both were real workhorses. I kept the Milwaukee. It collects a very nice amount of dust and after 8 years it's proven itself with power and it's digital miter scale still works perfectly.

 

[antss]

[member=60286]bobfog[/member]  - ROTFLMAO 

I think Festool is in a real predicament.    After a years worth of fact finding they have found nothing ??? 

Which means they declined to really look into it - or - they couldn't find anything because they didn't have the engineering power - or - they did find that their motors were susceptible to issues.

None of which plays well to the customers.  They only see :
- We can't be bothered to look into it because we really don't care.  You keep buying them.
- We're not smart enough to figure the problem out.
- We did find out why. But even we're not crass enough to officially and publicly tell the customers they can't use their saw to cut small stuff.  No one in the U.S. would ever buy a Kapex again and ebay would be flooded with $200 saws.

 

[kevinculle]

Put the field problem aside for a moment, it is inconceivable to me that Festool would both understand the root cause(s) of the failures and not at least address them in the new saws they are building and selling.  So until the Kapex undergoes engineering changes as built you can assume Festool has not run this to ground.  What we lack to have perspective on this issue is a simple but telling statistic...what percentage of the Kapex saws now in the field have experienced the failure.  If it's a lot less than 1% (my expectation) and not clustered in a narrow range of serial numbers (indicating a transient glitch in supplier parts or manufacturing) then they may never fully understand the root cause(s).

 

[ajones]

All you can assume is festool don't give a monkey's
What would be good if some people on here would stop talking nonsense about step down transformers etc as they have already demonstrated their lack of electrical knowledge.combined with the fact that they are on the payroll makes them so transparent.
Just buy from other manufacturers stop wasting your energy on the kapex.

 

[rizzoa13]

Put the field problem aside for a moment, it is inconceivable to me that Festool would both understand the root cause(s) of the failures and not at least address them in the new saws they are building and selling.  So until the Kapex undergoes engineering changes as built you can assume Festool has not run this to ground.  What we lack to have perspective on this issue is a simple but telling statistic...what percentage of the Kapex saws now in the field have experienced the failure.  If it's a lot less than 1% (my expectation) and not clustered in a narrow range of serial numbers (indicating a transient glitch in supplier parts or manufacturing) then they may never fully understand the root cause(s).

Feel that way when your saw is one of the "expected less than 1%" and takes a crap 3 months out of warranty. Then see how you'd feel when the manufacturer blows your inquiries off for months, finally relents to look into it by asking for information from failed saw users (lazy as all), and then comes back with the statement of "it may stem from fast repetitive cuts in small mouldings"..... which is exactly what a mitre saw is for.

You do realize a recall is an admission of guilt and would be EXTREMELY expensive. I know I'd go after them for my $600 repair bill if I could ever prove the onus was on their end.

 

[peter halle]

Recalls happen for safety issues.  A saw, or any tool not lasting as long as one might expect due to the price paid for it and whatever claims the manufacturer made about it is not a safety issue.

I am not saying that this isn't a blemish, embarrassment, sales hurting occurrence, etc for Festool, because it is.  The length of silence will only continue to hurt them.  I've shouted as high as I can shout to them regarding this beyond this forum.

Peter

 

[antss]

Didn't Festool recall the original carvex because of issues ?

Or was it just a delay of launch.  I thought they'd reach the marketplace. Were the issues saftey related?  I can't recall now.

About a decade ago I was on the periphery of a dishwasher recall by a manufacturer. There wasn't a saftey issue or a UL problem at all. But a significant number of them developed leaks that the whole program was shelved and units we bought back BEFORE any sort of organized bad publicity or class action was brought up.  On paper there shouldn't have been a problem, but they kept leaking in numbers that was more than a coincidence. The owner/CEO just rolled up the entire project and ate a big loss.

What I'm saying is, typical a recall is a "consumer product saftey recall". But not always. And sometimes big business will take the high road. Not often, but it happens.

 

[Svar]

Didn't Festool recall the original carvex because of issues ?

There was recall for TS55REQ. Blade did not retract properly.

 

[Bohdan]

Compulsory recalls happen for safety reasons, voluntary recalls happen due to the company deciding that the bad publicity will cost them an unacceptable amount.

Obviously Festool make enough profit that the Kapex fiasco is not affecting their bottom line and they don't care cause they already have your money.

In my case I like the functionality of the Kapex but due to Festool's lack of action on the perceived issues I won't risk buying one.

If they were to simply say that all motor failures and repairs will be covered by warranty for at least 10 years I would get one and I am sure that Festool's reputation would be enhanced.

 

[antss]

I remember the 55 recall, but feel that was a saftey issue.

The original carvex was definitely scrapped , and for a pretty good while.  I just can't recall if it actually made the shelves in the USA. Pretty sure it did in Europe/UK.  Which makes me uncertain if it was    "recalled".

It wasn't saftey related though. I pretty sure it was due to the light system crapping out and blade wandering unacceptably. 

So , it would seem Festool has at least some history of fixing their gaffs.

 

[peter halle]

The Original Carvex never was sold here.  Not recalled - just not released.

The Ts55 recall was a voluntary recall in cooperation with the CPSC.

Peter

 

[antss]

Peter - What happened with the ps 400's that were sold in Europe ?