Festool Recon Kapex purchase

[glass1]

As usual all problems are the users fault. What the whole world isn’t already posting on the fog. 

 

[eeeesh]

Regarding Festool recon purchases in general, what experiences have been had with the condition upon arrival? The reason I ask is I was extremely disappointed in the condition of CT 36 E I received today… besides the hose garage being completely destroyed, it was completely covered in filth. In my opinion the unit was not reconditioned but plucked straight from a job site and sent to my door. With a manufacture date of 04/2010 I would hardly say the unit was gently used. With the amount of grime on the outside there is no way the internals could have been inspected for wear. With all that being said, still paying close to 600usd for a 7+ year old, dirty, damaged unit seems insane. I was under the assumption Festool would not allow this lack of detail.

Why would you keep that?

I know Festools says 'no returns', but I think if I was in your shoes I would call them up, tell them or email a photo of the condition of the vac and ask them to send UPS out to pick it up for a return and full credit back to your credit card or replace it with a unit in good condition.  If they balked at that, get the name of the person you talked to and file a dispute with your credit card company - "item not as described".

 

[ChuckM]

Festool sets the terms and conditions for this Forum. If it feels that the merchant/retailer/Festool, where applicable, should be contacted first before a service or sales problem is reported/shared here, such guidelines can be established for every Forum member to follow. This will put a stop to the recurring discussions about this topic.

Of course, if and when such guidelines are in existence and someone posts a service/purchase issue here, we would give them the benefit of the doubt with the assumption that they have tried to resolve their concerns with the supplier before they come here to escalate the issue in the Forum.

 

[peter halle]

As usual all problems are the users fault. What the whole world isn’t already posting on the fog.

I just asked a question.

That is allowed by the forum guidelines.

I would have contacted them if I received a unit like that.

Peter

 

[peter halle]

Festool sets the terms and conditions for this Forum. If it feels that the merchant/retailer/Festool, where applicable, should be contacted first before a service or sales problem is reported/shared here, such guidelines can be established for every Forum member to follow. This will put a stop to the recurring discussions about this topic.

Of course, if and when such guidelines are in existence and someone posts a service/purchase issue here, we would give them the benefit of the doubt with the assumption that they have tried to resolve their concerns with the supplier before they come here to escalate the issue in the Forum.

[member=57948]ChuckM[/member] If you scroll up to the top of this thread and look at the blue box and its contents you will see what Festool asked.

Peter Halle - Moderator

 

[ChuckM]

Festool sets the terms and conditions for this Forum. If it feels that the merchant/retailer/Festool, where applicable, should be contacted first before a service or sales problem is reported/shared here, such guidelines can be established for every Forum member to follow. This will put a stop to the recurring discussions about this topic.

Of course, if and when such guidelines are in existence and someone posts a service/purchase issue here, we would give them the benefit of the doubt with the assumption that they have tried to resolve their concerns with the supplier before they come here to escalate the issue in the Forum.

[member=57948]ChuckM[/member] If you scroll up to the top of this thread and look at the blue box and its contents you will see what Festool asked.

Peter Halle - Moderator

Blue box? Can't see it on my screen - Plz see the screenshot attached.

Do you have a link to the box?

 

[antss]

I think boxing it up and sending it back without contacting FT first is just asking for trouble.  It certainly reckless advice.  Under the terms of the sale hunt got what was advertised - albeit with some shipping damage. 

I'm sure festool didn't knowingly send out a vacuum with a busted hose garage.  Lots of FOGgers know that the garage is the weak point of these vacs and even Bob has said the biggest damage to items he sends out is those vac hose garages.  And you should see how he packages his stuff for delivery .

Hunt , did your vac arrive in a factory box with the fitted carrier ?  Was there and obvious trauma to the outer box ?  Also , did you read the terms of the sale before or after purchase ?

"What is the condition of refurbished tools?

Reconditioned tools can include gently used tools and discontinued items. Used tools are inspected by Festool trained technicians. All tools meet Festool’s high performance and quality standards. However, you should expect them to have visual blemishes.  "

Pay particular attention to the last line.  [eek]

Based on your pic, I'd consider that vac gently used.  Dust on a vac is expected with use.  I take pretty good care of mine and and all have some sort of scuffs, marks , and dust on them and don't look as "smooth" as that one appears under the dust.  What condition are the filters in ?  if those are a mess then I'd change my mind.

I'm sure Tyler can sort you out. 

And hopefully speak to management about why something as easy as dusting / vacuuming off a tool before sending it out isn't part of the recon process  ?  I'm not talking about polishing  and deep cleaning, but that didn't even include a cursory wipe down.  The German techs I know would be embarrassed to have their name associated with that work. 

 

[TylerC]

Regarding Festool recon purchases in general, what experiences have been had with the condition upon arrival? The reason I ask is I was extremely disappointed in the condition of CT 36 E I received today… besides the hose garage being completely destroyed, it was completely covered in filth. In my opinion the unit was not reconditioned but plucked straight from a job site and sent to my door. With a manufacture date of 04/2010 I would hardly say the unit was gently used. With the amount of grime on the outside there is no way the internals could have been inspected for wear. With all that being said, still paying close to 600usd for a 7+ year old, dirty, damaged unit seems insane. I was under the assumption Festool would not allow this lack of detail.

I'm sorry for your frustration with this. Please send me a message with few more pictures including a clearer shot of the hose garage. I'll speak with our recon team tomorrow for you.

 

[peter halle]

Festool sets the terms and conditions for this Forum. If it feels that the merchant/retailer/Festool, where applicable, should be contacted first before a service or sales problem is reported/shared here, such guidelines can be established for every Forum member to follow. This will put a stop to the recurring discussions about this topic.

Of course, if and when such guidelines are in existence and someone posts a service/purchase issue here, we would give them the benefit of the doubt with the assumption that they have tried to resolve their concerns with the supplier before they come here to escalate the issue in the Forum.

[member=57948]ChuckM[/member] If you scroll up to the top of this thread and look at the blue box and its contents you will see what Festool asked.

Peter Halle - Moderator

Blue box? Can't see it on my screen - Plz see the screenshot attached.

Do you have a link to the box?

Here is a screen shot.[attachimg=1]

 

[ChuckM]

Got it, and thanks.

Good to know such guidelines do exist.

I think some posters -- especially those with single digit posts -- might have missed that notice, which couldn't be seen once they signed in.

 

[peter halle]

Got it, and thanks.

Good to know such guidelines do exist.

I think some posters -- especially those with single digit posts -- might have missed that notice, which couldn't be seen once they signed in.

[member=57948]ChuckM[/member] , actually thank you for pointing out a forum issue.  After your screen shot I started wondering.  Dinner interfered but I then went to my wife's computer and looked at this thread as a guest.  The blue box was there.  I then signed on as my wife (she is a member here) and then just like you I couldn't see that box.

I'll let [member=57769]TylerC[/member]  know about this snafu and see if they at Festool can confirm what I just experienced.

Peter

 

[Gregor]

[member=57948]ChuckM[/member] , actually thank you for pointing out a forum issue.  After your screen shot I started wondering.  Dinner interfered but I then went to my wife's computer and looked at this thread as a guest.  The blue box was there.  I then signed on as my wife (she is a member here) and then just like you I couldn't see that box.

I'll let [member=57769]TylerC[/member]  know about this snafu and see if they at Festool can confirm what I just experienced.

Please, enable us to switch that thing off in the preferences.

 

[mwildt]

Don't see any blue box as picture shows, when using an iPad os10 and chrome.

 

[eeeesh]

Reconditioned tools can include gently used tools and discontinued items. Used tools are inspected by Festool trained technicians. All tools meet Festool’s high performance and quality standards. However, you should expect them to have visual blemishes.  "

Pay particular attention to the last line.  [eek]

Based on your pic, I'd consider that vac gently used.  Dust on a vac is expected with use.  I take pretty good care of mine and and all have some sort of scuffs, marks , and dust on them and don't look as "smooth" as that one appears under the dust.  What condition are the filters in ?  if those are a mess then I'd change my mind.

The black piece that goes above the switch (hose garage or whatever you call it) with the Festool sticker on it is broken/trashed...

[attachimg=1]

 

[ChuckM]

Selling and buying second-hand or reconditioned items without the benefit of pictures is bound to result in some kind of dissatisfaction or disappointment, because we all have different views on or interpretation of what high or "quality standards" is. Is cleanliness part of the high standards? Yes for some (including me), but no for others. Cosmetic damages that don't affect functions, on the other hand, are tough calls, and either party can argue their case...with no clear winners in the end.

Someone bought a handplane (sold as manufacture seconds) at one of the recent Cyber Monday events and after receiving it, complained that it had more marks (I think he meant scratches, but he did not show any images) than he expected. (He had no issues with the functionality of the plane.)

I am not interested in any sale or sales that is blindfolded, regardless of the % of discount offered. To get second-hand items, I trust Kijiji and EBay (and my eyes) only. One exception: Lee Valley Tools; they take back whatever you are not happy with even if it is a sale item.

 

[AlexThePalex]

I can't imagine "reconditioned" means getting a tool with broken parts. Scuffs and scratches from usage, understandably, but not broken, I thought reconditioned meant to restore it to as new functionality.

The way this vac looks is like it's never even been touched by the service department.

 

[antss]

Fellas, it's pretty clear that this is SHIPPING DAMAGE.  It happens.  The time, effort and shipping costs to correct this is going to cost more than the part.  So I think it's safe to say FT didn't send out a vac with a busted garage hoping the customer wouldn't notice it or would just accept it because of the sweet deal he got.  :

One of the Forum's dealers posted recently about this very same issue when he sends out brand new in the box vacuums.  Hose garages break a little too easily.

Perhaps people could chime in on what their "expectations" are/were for a tool out of this sale ? 

A brand new tool minus two years of warranty ?  Something less ?

For me, I'd expect to receive a tool that functions as advertised and that's it.  But then again, I'm not about to participate in this because the terms just aren't favorable enough to warrant the risk.  I'm with Chuck. At least on the typical secondary market sites I can see the actual item I'm going to purchase. 

 

[Brice Burrell]

Perhaps people could chime in on what their "expectations" are/were for a tool out of this sale ? 

I would not expect a tool that was 7 years old. 

 

[jimbo51]

I bought a few items on Recon sales many years ago. They were delivered in excellent condition from the dealers who participated in the process back then.

I thought that years ago the Recon sales was how Festool disposed of items that had been returned during the 30 day try out period. I have recently seen discussions of how Festool dealers have the option of selling some returns as new.

I would never participate in a recon now knowing that I could be receiving a 7 year old tool.

 

[jeh]

Fair enough, in the context of wide-open capitalist economics.  But people who want to establish brand loyalty over the long run know that part of the brand loyalty comes from giving potential buyers an orderly, predictable way of interacting with the brand.  Most of the time Festool gets the orderly, predictable part right, at least with their new tools, but I've seen holes in the last couple of years:
*  The Pro 5 promotion wasn't botched because it was a bad deal.  It was botched because the stock was committed before the advertisements were published.  That makes Festool appear capricious.
*  The current approach to refurb sales (if I'm right) where prices can vary by 15-20% without notice from sale to sale, or where old products are offered without clarity, or where the products do not appear to have been reconditioned, makes Festool appear capricious, especially with the situational (e.g. manufactured) pressure to buy now.
*  Reliability issues that go unaddressed and un-remedied make Festool appear capricious - are they all about reliability or not?

Perceptions of capriciousness rather than dependability translate to lack of trust, and that is bad for long term brand loyalty.

So maybe "victim" isn't the right word, but I certainly sympathize with John if he has less trust in the Festool brand today than he did a couple of weeks ago.

There is nothing shady about the sale. Festool is offering a used, but working tool at a decent discount. Don't expect anything more than that. Their goal is to get rid of this dead inventory and if a second offering at a lower price it is what it takes then so be it.

Given the number of tools offered for sale it concerns me that we all will be paying the price for the tire kickers who buy and return before the 30 days are up. I have seen one case of FOG'er encouraging another FOG'er to buy use and return a tool. This is not how the system is supposed to work. If it has not already having large stocks of returned items will cost us all in the end.