Festool tools to purchase in order of priority

[luvmytoolz]

Festool cordless drills, which I've used, are one of the only Fedtool tools that I have no plans to acquire.

I'm the same, but purely because I have already bought so extensively into the Makita LXT range over the years, and don't want competing battery powered devices that aren't compatible. If I was starting out, i'd probably get into the Festool cordless in a big way.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

Me too. I have been into the LXT since the initial launch in '05.
Back then I added a Bosch 10.8v "Pocket driver" for hardware installation, since I was assembling and up-fitting cabinets back then. That extended into the right angle drill and actual drill-chuck model too. They were essentially the first ones in that range, but they were individual tools.
When I discovered the CXS, it sold them all off in favor of it, keeping the LXT for the bigger tasks.
That's where I still am today, 2 battery platforms.

 

[woodferret]

My cuts are always 2/3mm out, and it's always on one end, have tried with a brand new rail and the same.

Spoke with their customer services who were helpful but couldn't get to the bottom of it.

I probably should use the other thread, but could that be a plunge cut / curve that's throwing off the one end?

 

[Peter Kelly]

I have the full TSO parallel edge guide and 2 x of their squares,  can't say I am too happy with the system.

Bin (or sell) them and get the Benchdogs versions. https://benchdogs.co.uk/collections/rail-square/products/mk2-rail-square-festoolhttps://benchdogs.co.uk/collections...ts/330mm-parallel-guide-system-festool-makita

 

[RussellS]

A Festool drill?  Why?  Do your current cordless drills not turn the drill bit or drive screws?  Never understood the nonsense for specific cordless drills.  They are pretty much generic.  One does exactly what the other does.  No real differences.
...

Sorry. No, not sorry.

CSX (original) has no analogues on the market for how it does what it does. Nada.
TPC was very much criticised even here for channelling all that power back into controlability instead of raw power and being "weird" one on the market in this. Some buy it precisely for that behavior all the "normal" drills do not present. Yes, there is the Fein sister drill ...
Same goes for the AGC 18. The smoothest ginder I have ever used. My wrists thank me for that every other day.

For some reason, you seem to have cut out the part I wrote about specialty drills such as the Milwaukee M12 drill I mentioned.  It is a copy more or less of the CSX you mention.  It is designed for close in work in drawers and comes with a variety of special heads to fit into odd places.  Just like the CSX.  That type of cordless drill has a place for some people.  Even I could see the justification for getting the Milwaukee M12 drill driver for odd tasks.

But for 99% of cordless drill usage for driving drywall screws to hold wood/drywall together or drilling holes in 2x4s, any cordless drill will work just like any other.  No need to waste money on expensive Festool cordless drills.

This is what I wrote in my original post:
"There are a few specialty drills that do make sense.  Such as the Milwaukee M12 drill that is very small and has several attachments that allow you to work inside drawers and other very tight spots.  Its designed for close quarters and cannot be replicated by other drills.  Getting that specialty tool makes sense."

 

[RussellS]

Router?  All routers do the same thing as all other routers about as equally well.  Just like with drills.  Get whatever you want.

I agree more or less with most of the comments, but I really have to disagree strongly with this one. All routers route but not all routers are equal. I've had pretty much every brand over the 40+ years, and I can tell you the OF2200 (with the OF1400 a close second) is hands down by far the best router out of all of them. The sheer power while still being smooth and superbly balanced in operation is a marvel from a tool with this size and grunt.

Also, the adjustability takes the usefulness to a whole new level and the ergonomics make it a dream to use, not to mention the vastly superior dust extraction. Give me an OF1400 or an OF2200 over a Hitachi, Makita or Triton anyday!

I have an old Porter Cable 7539 plunge router.  I'd put its power up against any router ever made.  But how much power do you need with a router?  In a table, you can spin up to about a 3 inch diameter bit.  Which needs power.  But in a table you can take multiple cuts to reduce the power you really need.  Sneak up on the cut instead of trying to hog off everything at once.  And all bits that are not big raised panel cutters, aren't they all handled equally well by routers?

I still remember watching Norm 40 years ago using a router on every project.  He used the Porter Cable fixed base model with 1.5 hp to edge rout all his pieces.  He managed somehow.

 

[RussellS]

I agree 100% with [member=61254]mino[/member] on the CXS. I hope they keep the original, after the new version happens.
They are unique. I do have other drill/drivers (Makita) but I still wouldn't give mine up.

But doesn't the Milwaukee M12 drill driver do exactly what the CXS does?  And I did mention this unique drill in my first comment.  If working in confined areas, such as inside drawers, then having a special drill where you can fit on right angle heads or extension heads makes sense.  And the M12 is short so it easily fits inside joist bays.  The M12 seems to be a copy of the Festool CXS.  Its just half price.  Is the CXS twice as good as the M12?  Or is it 1% better which you pay 100% more for?  Kind of like with track saws.  I like my old Festool track saw.  But if I was advising someone today who did not have a track saw, I'd say get the Makita for half the price of the Festool.  It will give you 98% performance for 50% the cost.

 

[luvmytoolz]

I have an old Porter Cable 7539 plunge router.  I'd put its power up against any router ever made.  But how much power do you need with a router?  In a table, you can spin up to about a 3 inch diameter bit.  Which needs power.  But in a table you can take multiple cuts to reduce the power you really need.  Sneak up on the cut instead of trying to hog off everything at once.  And all bits that are not big raised panel cutters, aren't they all handled equally well by routers?

I still remember watching Norm 40 years ago using a router on every project.  He used the Porter Cable fixed base model with 1.5 hp to edge rout all his pieces.  He managed somehow.

But it's not just about the power though otherwise any crappy GMC or Ozito router would be equal to any other router brand. It's about the design, usability, ergonomics, efficiency, balance, accessories, etc, etc.

Comparing power tools simply by the power rating is utterly useless with the tools released over the last decade or two, because so many have improved in many ways other than the simple power rating. Although to qualify that somewhat as CRG said he finds the Triton the best in a router table, I couldn't comment on that as I prefer 3ph spindles myself there, and my old ELU MOF177E was my last router table router.

Not the least of which is ergonomics. For example try using an old and/or cheap orbital sander for an hour straight, and a Festool sander for the entire day, and see which one you end up with wrist ache from.

So just providing a semi-unusual function isn't of itself the single compelling story to buy a particular tool in many cases, but a combination of all the other criteria as well.

The attached pic is of a panel bit that was a little under 4" diameter from memory. Normally a cutter this size in a handheld router would be very problematic and possibly more than a little bit dangerous (if it would even fit), but in the OF2200 the balance is so amazing, and so smooth under power, it simply cut like a hot knife in butter. It really didn't feel any different under load to using a 3/4" round over bit.

 

[luvmytoolz]

Me too. I have been into the LXT since the initial launch in '05.
Back then I added a Bosch 10.8v "Pocket driver" for hardware installation, since I was assembling and up-fitting cabinets back then. That extended into the right angle drill and actual drill-chuck model too. They were essentially the first ones in that range, but they were individual tools.
When I discovered the CXS, it sold them all off in favor of it, keeping the LXT for the bigger tasks.
That's where I still am today, 2 battery platforms.

I had the old Makita 7.2/12VDC sets, along with various other brand cordless tools. It was such a pain as I didn't use them often enough individually to keep them fully charged, so was forever having to charge and wait which is why I went the 18V way years back. I love the LXT range especially the impacts, but I think now the Milwaukee range is possibly superior. But I will say I absolutely love my LXT screwguns, they are insanely useful, couldn't do without them. I prefer them to my Fein ones.

 

[mino]

For some reason, you seem to have cut out the part I wrote about specialty drills such as the Milwaukee M12 drill I mentioned. 
...

Indeed. I have consciously not disputed your points. Many if not all are valid - for You and many people. Other people have different priorities.

I know of Makita drills *I* would never touch with a long pole if they were available in a shop I was doing something in. Yet I know those same are perfectely serviceable and a good value for other people. So I would also never dismiss them as garbage nor consider their owners fools.

Everyone has different priorities. And for (most) people buying Festool, and frequenting FOG, price to raw performance is not on the top of the list.

As for the M12 driver, there were a couple threads on it and I had it in hand when it came out. It is good but not even close on ergonomics to the CXS. It is more of a CXS 18 competitor. Even there I would be on the edge deciding, given how it cannot stand on its battery etc. ..

 

[bobtskutter]

Most of my wood working has been making things from 8x4 plywood sheets.  I'm in the UK.

I started with the TS75 + FS3000 + FS1400
I then got the OF1400 + LR32 + 2424 holly rail
Then an RO125 + soft pad
Then the full TSO rail square and measurement system
Then a PS420 + accessory set (not sure i needed the accessory set but it was on promotion)
Then a DF500 + domino box and cutters + TSO BigFoot
Then a DTS400
And the last purchase was a PIZZ-TS

Please note I have not bought a Festool shop vac, I bought the festool D27 hose adapter (768135) and use duck tape to fit it to my old house vacuum.  I'm not avoiding a Festool vac, just have far too many vacuum cleaners!

My next purchase is likely to be the EHL65 plane and I kinda want the sword saw (I have a big garden job coming up which means I need to cut a lot of railway sleepers - but I could use my Stihl chain saw for that).

Regards
Bob

 

[Coen]

controlability

Festool marketing completely fails on that part.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

I agree 100% with [member=61254]mino[/member] on the CXS. I hope they keep the original, after the new version happens.
They are unique. I do have other drill/drivers (Makita) but I still wouldn't give mine up.

But doesn't the Milwaukee M12 drill driver do exactly what the CXS does?  And I did mention this unique drill in my first comment.  If working in confined areas, such as inside drawers, then having a special drill where you can fit on right angle heads or extension heads makes sense.  And the M12 is short so it easily fits inside joist bays.  The M12 seems to be a copy of the Festool CXS.  Its just half price.  Is the CXS twice as good as the M12?  Or is it 1% better which you pay 100% more for?  Kind of like with track saws.  I like my old Festool track saw.  But if I was advising someone today who did not have a track saw, I'd say get the Makita for half the price of the Festool.  It will give you 98% performance for 50% the cost.

RusselS, I can't say from experience, but every review I ever saw of the Milwaukee (which is a surprisingly close copy for a reputable brand) they all say that looks are deceiving. It "looks" right, but doesn't "feel" the same.
I already had the CXS long before the M12 version came out and I'm on the Makita LXT platform otherwise anyway, so it has no appeal to me, even if is was exactly the same.

Me too. I have been into the LXT since the initial launch in '05.
Back then I added a Bosch 10.8v "Pocket driver" for hardware installation, since I was assembling and up-fitting cabinets back then. That extended into the right angle drill and actual drill-chuck model too. They were essentially the first ones in that range, but they were individual tools.
When I discovered the CXS, it sold them all off in favor of it, keeping the LXT for the bigger tasks.
That's where I still am today, 2 battery platforms.

I had the old Makita 7.2/12VDC sets, along with various other brand cordless tools. It was such a pain as I didn't use them often enough individually to keep them fully charged, so was forever having to charge and wait which is why I went the 18V way years back. I love the LXT range especially the impacts, but I think now the Milwaukee range is possibly superior. But I will say I absolutely love my LXT screwguns, they are insanely useful, couldn't do without them. I prefer them to my Fein ones.

Yeah, I had the old NiCad battery version back when I worked in a body shop, years ago. They were better than corded, but not great. Lithium Ion is far superior.
I just wish we would have had impact drivers back then. I did a lot of work with pneumatic ratchets and "butterfly" impact wrenches, where a "modern" 1/4" hex impact driver would have been far better.

As I said before, there is far more to a router than just spinning. Max power is not necessarily one of them, for me at least. Ergonomics and features are more compelling. Something as simple as the way you set the depth can make or break the user experience. The simple balance of the way the thing feels in the hand can also be a big factor.
That is part of what I like so much about the Milwaukee 5615. That "body-grip" and wrist strap are great when using edge profiling bits, flush trim, round over, chamfers, etc. They are not the big kid on the block, but for that purpose, excellent.
Triton, horrible in hand. They are top heavy and clunky like that and the handle feel bad. Turn one over and put it in a table, that all changes. The way the controls work, above the table bit changes with one wrench, etc...superior to anything I have used.
There are more powerful machines. The monster fixed-base Porter-Cable is an absolute beast as far as power goes, but it's a complete abomination to work with in a table. Whoever designed that thing to spin the entire motor to change bit height, never used a router in his life. The power switch canges position with every height change......really? It's bad enough when used by hand, but in a table, unless you have a remote switch, quite a chore to fumble around.....and it twists up the cord.

 

[luvmytoolz]

As I said before, there is far more to a router than just spinning. Max power is not necessarily one of them, for me at least. Ergonomics and features are more compelling. Something as simple as the way you set the depth can make or break the user experience. The simple balance of the way the thing feels in the hand can also be a big factor.

That's part why i'm so enamoured with the OF2200, the locking lever that allows you to adjust the height in minute discrete steps on the fly is just sensational. And the balance is just outstanding. It really is in a class of it's own.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

That's part why i'm so enamoured with the OF2200, the locking lever that allows you to adjust the height in minute discrete steps on the fly is just sensational. And the balance is just outstanding. It really is in a class of it's own.

You are going to talk me into on of those things eventually.......I blame you now

 

[luvmytoolz]

That's part why i'm so enamoured with the OF2200, the locking lever that allows you to adjust the height in minute discrete steps on the fly is just sensational. And the balance is just outstanding. It really is in a class of it's own.

You are going to talk me into on of those things eventually.......I blame you now

Sorry...not sorry CRG! I'm not even sure how many routers I still own but the 2200 is just amazing. It's definitely the Ferrari of routers!

 

[Crazyraceguy]

That's part why i'm so enamoured with the OF2200, the locking lever that allows you to adjust the height in minute discrete steps on the fly is just sensational. And the balance is just outstanding. It really is in a class of it's own.

You are going to talk me into on of those things eventually.......I blame you now

Sorry...not sorry CRG! I'm not even sure how many routers I still own but the 2200 is just amazing. It's definitely the Ferrari of routers!

I counted mine in my head last night, after making the statement "more than I care to admit" twice, in two different comments. It turns out to be 21, 5 of which are Festool, but no FS2200 yet.

 

[luvmytoolz]

I counted mine in my head last night, after making the statement "more than I care to admit" twice, in two different comments. It turns out to be 21, 5 of which are Festool, but o FS2200 yet.

I hope I don't get ridiculed for not being hard core enough, but after a quick count I have 14 routers, although that includes a $30 Chinese Makita trimmer knockoff so I'm not sure that counts! ;-)

Embarrassingly one I bought a few years back thinking "this will be super handy", is a tilting router that allows doing coves/vee grooves on internal seams, I'm yet to use it, but I know if I sell it within a couple of days I'll have an urgent need for it come up!

I do plan on getting at least a couple more trimmers as I love not having to adjust cutters or depth, they're so handy that way, I reckon you just can't have enough trimmers. Of special mention is the OFK700, and while I haven't used it much, when I have needed it it's been superb to have. Extremely useful trimmer.

 

[RussellS]

I already had the CXS long before the M12 version came out and I'm on the Makita LXT platform otherwise anyway, so it has no appeal to me, even if is was exactly the same.

And I own an ancient Festool track saw.  So I have no interest in the Makita track saw.  Or any others either.  But for anyone who does not already own a track saw, I would advise getting the Makita electric one.  Its half the price of the Festool.  Maybe its only 98% as good as the Festool.  But its 50% less cost.  Which is kind of like the Milwaukee M12 driver/drill and attachments compared to the Festool CXS.  They look pretty similar to me.  And would do the job of working in confined spaces and using the special attachments equally well.  So if I ever decide I need that specialty, I will likely get the M12 for half the price.  I own a $19.99 Menards oscillating tool.  Bought six months ago.  I have used that thing a lot since purchase.  And can't imagine how I lived without one.  It is loud and vibrates a lot.  But its been a champ for some plumbing remodeling I did.  Love love love it.  If I ever work on a Steinway piano or Stradivarius violin, then I'll get a Fein oscillating tool.  The gold, platinum Cadillac standard.

 

[luvmytoolz]

I already had the CXS long before the M12 version came out and I'm on the Makita LXT platform otherwise anyway, so it has no appeal to me, even if is was exactly the same.

And I own an ancient Festool track saw.  So I have no interest in the Makita track saw.  Or any others either.  But for anyone who does not already own a track saw, I would advise getting the Makita electric one.  Its half the price of the Festool.  Maybe its only 98% as good as the Festool.  But its 50% less cost.  Which is kind of like the Milwaukee M12 driver/drill and attachments compared to the Festool CXS.  They look pretty similar to me.  And would do the job of working in confined spaces and using the special attachments equally well.  So if I ever decide I need that specialty, I will likely get the M12 for half the price.  I own a $19.99 Menards oscillating tool.  Bought six months ago.  I have used that thing a lot since purchase.  And can't imagine how I lived without one.  It is loud and vibrates a lot.  But its been a champ for some plumbing remodeling I did.  Love love love it.  If I ever work on a Steinway piano or Stradivarius violin, then I'll get a Fein oscillating tool.  The gold, platinum Cadillac standard.

That's great it works for you getting the cheapest tool option possible, but for many others who rely on a better class of tool for their health, usability and time savings benefits, sometimes that 2% is exactly what's needed.

I don't work on and never will work on Steinway piano's or Stradivarius violins, but after getting a cheapo oscilliating tool and then a Makita version, I bought the Fein one, and my respiratory system, hearing and lack of any RSI thanks me for it everytime I use it. Expensive, yes, money well spent, heck yes!

The trick for many is often not just knowing the cost of an item, but also knowing the value of an item. Many have lesser requirements, many have more stringent requirements, that's fine either way so long as the shortcomings are known and calculated.

Using the same logic "they all look the same to me" is exactly what I did starting out, buying down to a price, and I can't tell you how many drills I burnt out when hanging doors on drills that "looked" the same, but clearly under use they weren't. I spent far more replacing drills than if I had just bought a really good one in the first place.