Festool TS 60 vs Mafell MT55cc

[Cheese]

I am looking at carpentry saws for a couple reasons. I am doing some remodeling in our house. To keep the dust out I take a bunch of measurements, go to the shop and make a bunch of cuts on the Kapex before going back inside to install. An HKC55 or KSS would save a bunch of trips for some of the smaller jobs and help avoid when I cut something a mm or 2 long. Second I build and install cabinets for others. Often times I need a few miter cuts during the installs.  Would be nice not to avoid return trips to the shop for these cuts.

That monkey motion of going in...going out...going in...going out...makes me nauseous. It's the same stuff I presently deal with going up...going down...ad nauseam.

The HKC works well for 2x materials...no problem there. It's a good dust collector using just the bag and it's just an all around innocuous saw.  [big grin]  It just does its job without any drama.

For the thicker stuff, I'd recommend the HKC 85 if it was available in the US, I'd certainly consider that because of its enhanced depth cutting abilities. The other saw that has grabbed my intention lately is the Mafell KSS 80. There are so many good things about that saw.

Right now for thicker applications, I'm using a Milwaukee 8-1/4" worm gear drive saw that doesn't know what a track saw rail is and will absolutely not be bullied by a strong arm. I can strong-arm the Festool and the Mafell 55 offerings but the Milwaukee will not be bullied at all. It has a diamond blade on it now and will cut 2" thick bluestone slabs all day long...dry. It's one of those saws that you'd send to NY for a knife fight in an alley and you'd know what the outcome would be before hand. [smile]

 

[SoonerFan]

[member=44099]Cheese[/member] if I had to guess today I would guess I end up with an HKC55 for a few reasons:

1. Works with tracks I already own and can order with a track length I want
2. Price compared to Mafell
3. Cordless and I don’t own a cordless saw today
4. Seems to be an all around handy saw and for me would be a “trip eliminator”

Thanks for the additional input

 

[squall_line]

For the thicker stuff, I'd recommend the HKC 85 if it was available in the US, I'd certainly consider that because of its enhanced depth cutting abilities. The other saw that has grabbed my intention lately is the Mafell KSS 80. There are so many good things about that saw.

One of the few things that kept me from getting a KSS 80 during the Mafell anniversary sale was the fact that you couldn't get the KSS 80 without the track, and the K85Ec (which is the same top end) has a different base plate that doesn't work with the crosscut rails (well, and the KSS 80 rails are unique to that saw).  If I could have gotten the KSS 80 without the track and gotten the track later when I needed it for a project, I may have gone that route and used it as essentially as a K85 stand-in/replacement for my TS75.

Now, could I have called TW and tried to sweet talk someone into selling the KSS 80 by itself?  Maybe, but it was still a chunk of change more than I really wanted to be spending at the time, and then the sale ran through, so I let it drop.

 

[Cheese]

[member=44099]Cheese[/member] if I had to guess today I would guess I end up with an HKC55 for a few reasons:

1. Works with tracks I already own and can order with a track length I want
2. Price compared to Mafell
3. Cordless and I don’t own a cordless saw today
4. Seems to be an all around handy saw and for me would be a “trip eliminator”

Thanks for the additional input

You'll be quite happy with the HKC, I used it to rip a lot of 8/4 aromatic cedar for sweater drawer liners as the TS 55 I initially started with was burning the cedar. Because of the brushless motor along with the thin kerf blade, the HKC even with a single battery did an admirable job. The Janka hardness of aromatic cedar is in the same range as mahogany, maple & cherry.

 

[simonh]

I've had some Mafell gear including the plunge saw and KSS55? cross cut saw. I'm back on Festool platform now.  There's a few nice things on the Mafell stuff and the older Cuprex motors were always strong.  They're newer battery saws have motors by a third party (Matebo?) and run off the battery alliance stuff.  I just didn't need more platforms and for the few nice features its a much more niche world when it comes to accessories or third party add-ons.

 

[SoonerFan]

4. Seems to be an all around handy saw and for me would be a “trip eliminator”

I really should get the HKC.  I got a notification from Apple Health today that my average flights of stairs climbed has more than doubled.  This coincides with me trimming (casing doors, install base / quarter round, etc) in a bathroom I remodeled.  Not surprised given all the trips up and down to make cuts on my Kapex. 

 

[rst]

I’ve made three sets of steps with treated lumber and an interior set with  my HKC. I have the three different rails that I set to the angles I need to cut. I have other saws I could use but have the saw attached to the rail makes things so much easier

 

[SoonerFan]

I’ve made three sets of steps with treated lumber and an interior set with  my HKC. I have the three different rails that I set to the angles I need to cut. I have other saws I could use but have the saw attached to the rail makes things so much easier

I redid our steps using a Kapex for all the cuts but would have used the HKC for sure if I owned one. 

 

[Yoggoth]

Had Mafell Mt 55 as my first saw a couple of years ago. Had sold it.
Just bought a Festool TS 60. (Before using) I like Festool saw more and I like its rails more. While both manufacturers have their pros.

 

[sebna]

I made a whole post about the Metabo tracks here about 3 years ago.https://www.festoolownersgroup.com/...tabo-guide-rails-festool/msg602718/#msg602718

The link seems not to be working.

After reading your encouraging posts in this thread about Metabo I got exited but then realisation came that these are not compatible with aftermarket add-ons like squares / parallel guides etc. Is that the case (I believe this track system is missing groove they latch on)?

Since the link does not open - how Metabo rails compare to Festool when it comes to accuracy and saw play etc.?

While searching I found as below - would you agree? (both are translations from German):

The rail offers mediocre support for the KS 55 FS. It's too thin, fragile, and not deburred. What the metabolic experts were thinking with the grooved splinter protection lip quickly becomes clear when the thing starts to crumble away after a year: the customer is supposed to first buy an overpriced lip and then a new rail. The replacement lip doesn't fit more than 2 cm into the rail, no matter how hard the latter tries to carve it into its burrs when inserting it.

This also makes it clear to me: I won't be using a Metabo plunge-cut saw anymore. Now I have to look for third-party guide rails that are compatible and have a glued-on lip instead of a permanently integrated one that doesn't last a year. Stay away, Metabo simply can't make clean guide rails, as unfortunate as that is.

UPDATE: Don't despair, ask Makita. The rails fit the Metabo, are of significantly higher quality, have better features, and have a service-friendly lip.

And:

The rail arrived intact and straight, and was already well packaged by Metabo. The splinter guard is just a rubber strip inserted, not glued, and therefore has 0.5mm of play. However, on the 160mm rail, it is secured three times along its length by the aluminum. I would have preferred it to be glued. The only accessory available is the somewhat cheap-looking angle stop (not purchased). I'm not particularly enthusiastic about it; if you're planning on buying accessories, you'd probably be better off with other manufacturers. You should definitely check out the accessories beforehand. Metabo simply doesn't have an accessory groove, and it's too expensive for that.

 

[sebna]

Had Mafell Mt 55 as my first saw a couple of years ago. Had sold it.
Just bought a Festool TS 60. (Before using) I like Festool saw more and I like its rails more. While both manufacturers have their pros.

View attachment 375695

How do you like your TS 60 after owning it for a while?

 

[sebna]

Hi FOG,

Thanks for this wealth of information on Festool, other tools and solutions.

Now that the TS 60 has been out for a while, I’m curious about its strengths or drawbacks compared to the Mafell MT55cc.

Obviously these are both top-tier saws.

1.
In previous threads, users have been impressed with the extra power and build quality of the Mafell compared to the TS55. For example,
https://www.festoolownersgroup.com/other-tools-accessories/mafell-mt55-cc/

In North America, the latest 120V Mafell is 13.5A compared to TS55 at 10A. However, the TS60 is 13A and brushless.

TS55, assuming 80% efficiency for brushed motor = 120*10*80% = 960 watts output.
Mafell, assuming 80% efficiency for brushed motor = 120*13.5*80% = 1300 watts output.
TS60, assuming 90% efficiency for brushless motor = 120*13*90% = 1400 watts output.

2.
Mafell/Bosch rails join easily, but don’t have anti-friction glide strips. The latest TSO and Festool track connectors make joining Festool rails more straightforward.

Mafell/Bosch rails are narrower and have a clamping position closer to the cutting edge, which is helpful for narrower stock. Bench dogs can’t be too high on the Mafell rail or they will interfere with the progress of the saw. Mafell/Bosch rails hove no T-track on top, which is a limitation for jigs and third-party accessories.

Mafell/Bosch splinter guards have a bulb that is retained within the profile of the extruded rail, eliminating the issue of Festool splinterguards which can peel away from the aluminum (especially in cold weather, etc.).
https://www.festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tools-accessories/splinter-guard-peeling-off-at-the-end/

3.
Festool saws allow lateral trunnion adjustment to match other saws or existing rails; Mafell MT55 only has lateral adjustment at the rear trunnion. If you have multiple saws (mix of red and green) they must all be matched to the Mafell. If you have two Mafell saws, can you match them?
https://www.festoolownersgroup.com/other-tools-accessories/mafell-mt55-bevel-cut-dissapointing/

4.
As per [member=15585]Svar[/member] ’s OP in the link above, the Mafell trunnions are made of steel and are more rigid than on the TS55. However, the trunnions on the TS60 are also made of steel. (See Reply 28 and 29 of the thread below.)
https://www.festoolownersgroup.com/...crushes-corded-competitors-in-test-incl-ts75/

5.
There are issues with the Mafell blade not cutting on the splinter guard when bevelled. Not sure if Mafell has improved that in recent years. There is a fix for this issue per Bisch Basch Bosch.
https://www.festoolownersgroup.com/other-tools-accessories/mafell-mt55-bevel-cut-dissapointing/


6.
Festool TS60 works with FSK rails, in addition to the long FS guide rails.

7.
Motor of the TS60 does not overhang the rail.

8.
Greater depth of cut for the TS60 than the MT55. Blade availability may be somewhat more limited.

I’ve used various versions of the TS55, in addition to the TS75, extensively. I have had hands on the TS60 and MT55, but no significant work usage.

Seems like Festool has put a lot of thought and craft into the TS60. And the Mafell is a beautiful, solid tool.

If you were starting fresh—no sunk cost bias of existing rails, etc.—what would you choose at this point?

Which saw did you end up buying and how do you like it? Also what swayed you eventually?

 

[mrboult]

The link seems not to be working.

After reading your encouraging posts in this thread about Metabo I got exited but then realisation came that these are not compatible with aftermarket add-ons like squares / parallel guides etc. Is that the case (I believe this track system is missing groove they latch on)?

Since the link does not open - how Metabo rails compare to Festool when it comes to accuracy and saw play etc.?

While searching I found as below - would you agree? (both are translations from German):

The rail offers mediocre support for the KS 55 FS. It's too thin, fragile, and not deburred. What the metabolic experts were thinking with the grooved splinter protection lip quickly becomes clear when the thing starts to crumble away after a year: the customer is supposed to first buy an overpriced lip and then a new rail. The replacement lip doesn't fit more than 2 cm into the rail, no matter how hard the latter tries to carve it into its burrs when inserting it.

This also makes it clear to me: I won't be using a Metabo plunge-cut saw anymore. Now I have to look for third-party guide rails that are compatible and have a glued-on lip instead of a permanently integrated one that doesn't last a year. Stay away, Metabo simply can't make clean guide rails, as unfortunate as that is.

UPDATE: Don't despair, ask Makita. The rails fit the Metabo, are of significantly higher quality, have better features, and have a service-friendly lip.

And:

The rail arrived intact and straight, and was already well packaged by Metabo. The splinter guard is just a rubber strip inserted, not glued, and therefore has 0.5mm of play. However, on the 160mm rail, it is secured three times along its length by the aluminum. I would have preferred it to be glued. The only accessory available is the somewhat cheap-looking angle stop (not purchased). I'm not particularly enthusiastic about it; if you're planning on buying accessories, you'd probably be better off with other manufacturers. You should definitely check out the accessories beforehand. Metabo simply doesn't have an accessory groove, and it's too expensive for that.

Works great for my TS55. The splinter guard has held up fine, better imo than the festool. The play in the splinter guard they seem to be referring to is only when the rail is off the work. When on a flat surface it always returns to the set position. This is the nature of the way it slides into the rail rather than sticking on. I like it because it doesn’t unglue or move with age and hot weather.

I didn’t have too much trouble replacing the splinter guard, with some wd40 involved.

No they won’t work with accessories like rail squares that need the second groove.
I mainly like them for the more reliable and accurate joining bar. Means i can have a reliable little 1400 rail in a compact package as shown in my old post (below)

Post in thread 'Metabo Guide Rails + Festool'

Mar 15, 2020

Thought I'd post my opinions on the new Matabo rails, having used them on several projects now.

I've been interested in the most secure way of joining rails for a while now, as I never liked the standard festool or makita rail connectors. In my precise work I guess I am working (or trying) to the most accurate tolerances I can achieve, given the thickness of tape measure marks and mechanical pencils. I always struggled to make an accurate 2.4m cut with two joined rails. Being off sometimes by nearly 2mm in the centre of the cut could be common without due diligence every time.

Secondly I...

• mrboult

 

[GordonR]

The Mafell 55cc has been out for 11 years so to compare it to the Ts60 says a lot of the older saw
Personally and just my opinion I think that the Festool has stolen the crown in this dual
And as much as I like the Ts60, I'm drawn to the benefits of the cordless Tsc 55 Keb,
I might call into the Saw Centre in Edinburgh
to have a further look and feel of the two Festool models