Folks Hate The Metric System

joe    no i don't have any metric router bits or drill bits,but what is metric have to do with using your table saw?or your radial arm saw? i know it's not that easy to have to use 2 different system,but you just have to deal with it.  when i work on my nissan truck i have to get my metric set,on the other,when i m putting together an american product i reach for the other.  should i call nissan and ask them to convert all the bolts and nuts to imperial? (hey at least they did put an imperial speedometer!!!! )  BTW:nissan is made in the usa. i don't think making a special tool for the usa is that easy to do. think of the domino.if you change the metric scale to imperial than you would have to change the stop gauge,the plunge stop.and the fence.that means that you would have to change the size of the dominos. all of them!  everything that festool designe is based on metric.all of their calibrations is done with metric.  it will cost a lot more than you think to have tool redesigne just for the u.s.a.  maybe a sticker would do the job,but i just put marks for the most common size and it works great!!                                  p.s.  shouldn't a speedometer be in metric anyway?  speed-o-METER!
 
I actually like the metric system, and have had projects that are almost completely constructed within that system.  Of course, I was in grade school in the mid-1970s when there was a push in this country to convert, and I suppose that memory has always stayed with me!

But seriously, I do like doing things with the metric system.  The problem of course is when you have to introduce non-metric tools into the mix.

Matthew
 

  I will adapt but not convert. I own Festool vacuum and sander....no need to convert or adapt. Do you really need to convert for Festool routers and domino?
    As a machinist, I convert all fractions to decimal in my head ( 1/2" = .500 etc.)  In my mind it is really easy to convert ALL fractions to decimal and use ALL my machinists measuring increments.
      Gary K.
 
Gary is on the mark here. The first step to working in either system easily is to abandon fractions. It is a well known fact that three out of two people have trouble with fractions. :D
 
My mother was born in 1908.  When she was in grade school, they taught the metric system to the kids because this country was going to convert "soon."  Are we slow or what?
 
I'm converting more and more to metric.  And I like it -- metric, not changing over.  But I sure do not want to see Festool have both Imperial and metric scales on their tools.  And optional add-on is fine, but I really prefer not to have both.  I do have a tape measure with both -- don't really like it, but it was all I could get in metric in this one lumber store town -- but it will work okay for now.

Corwin
 
  I don't get it. Festool is willing to change the tooling for all the motors built for the US market(that's expensive retooling) but not the markings on the plastic cases? >:(
  That is bad ergonomics. I should be able to reach for a tool, set the depth almost without thinking(I think in inches) and cut. Every time I have to convert from one system to another it introduces the chance of error. I have to work in Imperial. Architects give their drawings in Imperial units. I build what they draw. I don't want to work in two systems on one job (think Space probe crashes).
  How about a digital depth scale on the routers similar to what Lou posted. Then we could push a button and get a readout in our favorite system. I like fractions :D. How about an optional accessory($$$$$)
  For the plunge saw I hang the blade over the edge and add a smidge. I like the white tape idea but it seems like holding the mirror on a Porsche with duct tape.
  Can you tell this really annoys me? ::)
 
mastercabman said:
joe     no i don't have any metric router bits or drill bits,but what is metric have to do with using your table saw?or your radial arm saw?
My Saw has a biesemeyer style fence with a tape marked in imperial to set the rip width.  My blades are 1/8" wide and I do use that 1/8" at times for kerfs.  My radial arm saw has a biesemeyer cutoff system with a tape and hairline pointer system.  This too is set in imperial.  I could replace the tapes on both saws with metric tapes, but then they would be wrong for the rest of my shop.  These two are the biggest problem.  Maybe I can find tapes for them with both.

mastercabman said:
i know it's not that easy to have to use 2 different system,but you just have to deal with it.  when i work on my nissan truck i have to get my metric set,on the other,when i m putting together an american product i reach for the other.   should i call nissan and ask them to convert all the bolts and nuts to imperial? (hey at least they did put an imperial speedometer!!!! )
One system on one truck is better than two systems all the time for every project.  In the early years of globalization, (late 70s, some GM products had both metric and imperial, and some of my tools came with bolts that had metic size threads and imperial heads.  That was really  something.

Again, I love the metric system, hate having to use both at one time.  PS: when you drive south from Tucson on the interstate, all the distances are marked in metric only.  Guess they just want to make it easy for the illegals (I'm sorry, the "undocumented workers") to know how far it is to Tucson...joe
 
Well if ya want...chuck it all and use the Bob.

No ,really.
http://www.bobsrule.com/index_frame.htm

Truthfully I don't think it matters at all.

Marks, storysticks, gauge blocks.

These are the units I work in.

Any time I must remember a number,that's time I should be thinking

about something else.

Or how about when ya burn a inch on the tape.

Tell me that works out all the time.

My two cents.

Per

 
joe  i don't think you need to retro any of your tools so that you can convert to metric.i would keep what you have.i had a hard time when i came here,inches?feets? yards? what the @#$%?  but i learn!    i still (sometime)have to think twice when i have to calculate in imperial  it's hard for people to go metric when all they know is imperial,but i think that it is harder for those who learn the metric first and then work with imperial. maybe i'm wrong,but i can tell you it took me a long time to get use to it.  but for you joe ,just stick with what you know best and when you use your festool,just do the best you can. i know it can be a pain to have to use both system at time.that's why i use a chart all the time,not just for lumber but other thing like accessories,and other stuff.maybe lumber yard could label their products with imperial/metric.so that some of us can get use to what we working with.i mean that, if you see 1x material that say 3/4"/19mm  than we will start to register the conversion.  after all, when i walk in lowes or home depot everything is label with english/spanish. a lots of products out there have english/spanish description. everything is now english/spanish, so how hard could it be to have metric information on the lumber?                                            p.s. does mexico use the metric system?
 
Per Swenson said:
Well if ya want...chuck it all and use the Bob.

No ,really.
http://www.bobsrule.com/index_frame.htm

Truthfully I don't think it matters at all.

Marks, storysticks, gauge blocks.

These are the units I work in.

Any time I must remember a number,that's time I should be thinking

about something else.

Or how about when ya burn a inch on the tape.

Tell me that works out all the time.

My two cents.

Per

With story sticks and a few marks and gauge blocks, you don't even need the "Bob".  I figure anytime you measure, you have a huge likelihood of making a mistake.  Though I prefer the metric system, I rarely use my measuring equipment after I determine the length, height, etc. on cabinets and furniture that must fit a specific place/dimension.  Story sticks work great for anything less than 6' for me. 

I hate measuring -imperial or metric - it just makes errors.

Just my opinion ----
 
 When considering my first Festool purchase I was concerned about the metric thing. Had no desire , need , or thought of learning the metric system. But after reading up a bit and blowing the dust off of some brain cells not used since the early years, I found a quick solution. A Fastcap millimeter/inch tape along with a good digital caliper - metric/imperial. These two tools are just the ticket to give even the most hardcore anti metric craftsman the skill to mark, measure and cut in minutes. This is a fast way to bridge the gap for those of us that are metrically challenged. Learn as you go kinda thing. Easy as 1 2 3  ;D
 
mastercabman said:
joe   i don't think you need to retro any of your tools so that you can convert to metric.i would keep what you have.i had a hard time when i came here,inches?feets? yards? what the @#$%?   but i learn!    i still (sometime)have to think twice when i have to calculate in imperial  it's hard for people to go metric when all they know is imperial,but i think that it is harder for those who learn the metric first and then work with imperial. maybe i'm wrong,but i can tell you it took me a long time to get use to it.  but for you joe ,just stick with what you know best and when you use your festool,just do the best you can. i know it can be a pain to have to use both system at time.that's why i use a chart all the time,not just for lumber but other thing like accessories,and other stuff.maybe lumber yard could label their products with imperial/metric.so that some of us can get use to what we working with.i mean that, if you see 1x material that say 3/4"/19mm  than we will start to register the conversion.   after all, when i walk in lowes or home depot everything is label with english/spanish. a lots of products out there have english/spanish description. everything is now english/spanish, so how hard could it be to have metric information on the lumber?                                             p.s. does mexico use the metric system?

WOW, I must not be communicating clearly;
1) I love the metric system
2) I think the metric system is easy, and I fully understand it.
3) I think the metric system is superior to the imperial system
4) I think the rest of the world is much smarter to be using the metric system
5) I wish the US used the metric system
6) Unfortunately most of my tools and tooling are imperial
7) Living with both is harder than living with one or the other (I think it would be hard to argue otherwise)
8) Yes, you can use charts, but heck, if I only had to live with one system or the other, I would even need a chart.  Which is harder, no chart, or chart?  Which is faster?

Does this make sense, or will I get even more posts telling my how much easier metric is?  One more time.  Metric is easier, using both on every project is not easier than just using one or just using the other.

To convert to metric, I would need to do the following;
1) Find an adhesive metric tape for the Biesemeyer type fence on my Sawstop saw.
2) Find left hand and right hand adhesive tapes for my Biesemeyer Radial Arm Saw cutoff system which is no longer produced.
3) Find or fabricate a metric scale for my Powermatic Model 100 planer
4) Find some way to fit a metric scale on my Rockwell 6" Stroke drill press.  This will be hard since the imperial scale is etched into the depth stop which is a rod which is treaded with an acme thread.
5) Replace about 5 expensive precision stainless steel rulers with metric versions
6) Stop using all the nice bridge city tools squares with imperial scales.  I don't think they make metric versions.

Router bits would still require conversion tables, and I doubt that measuring 1/8" in metric as (3.175mm) will be hard.  3/8" is easier at 9.525mm, but I don't think I'd get as tight a fit as if I measured to 3/8".

Or, I could use a conversion chart for every single cut I make.  Lets see, I need to rip 21 3/32" wide.  Isn't that conversion table quick?

Now, after all this ranting, I have purchased and enjoy the Festool TS75 and I won a Domino.  I will deal with the metric thing, but it is not as easy or simple for me as if I could stay entirely in one system...joe
 
I'm going to make a marked sticker to apply over the plunge scale... but really, couldn't Festool have put BOTH measurement systems on the case?
 
If they had put both scales on their tools, none of you Imperials would ever see the light  :D  And I'm sure nobody at Festool would mind if you bought all of their metric router and drill bits...

I personally never look at the scale on my saw, I just put the saw on the edge of the material and set it to the depth I need. When working with wood there's hardly ever such a thing as a precise measurement. Our 18mm plywood isn't always 18mm, just as your 3/4" ply isn't always 3/4". To be honest, using your imperial system is as much of a chore to me as using metric is to you. Linear measurements aren't too big a problem, but I always dread calculating surfaces or volumes. Chore to the third power indeed.

Perhaps you should all mobilize your grandmothers and send them to your manufacturers to request a complete change to the metric system. Now who could refuse a request from those lovely elderly ladies?

Mike_Chrest said:
   I should be able to reach for a tool, set the depth almost without thinking(I think in inches) and cut.

I strongly suggest you never ever use a tool like a circular saw without thinking.
 
I likely could convert to woodworking in metric relatively easily given the majority of my machinery is marked in metric...Mini Max and Festool. I've actually been considering it, but will likely try a project or two first before I make up my mind. Conversion wouldn't me monumental outside of replacing some measuring tools and changing the scale on my miter station. It's getting into it mentally that would take some time given I've been doing so-called "Imperial" for 50 years less the first few when I didn't know a measurement from a spoon of carrots.  ;D
 
I use a stick with most cabinet work and layout, and so far the only time metric came into play is when using the Domino and finding the center of the stock...

 
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