Glue Up Clamp Time?

[Bugsysiegals]

I'm gluing up some drawer boxes and am wondering how long drawer boxes or cabinet boxes need to be clamped?  I believe I've read clamps aren't needed for very long, not sure if it was 30m, 1h, 2h, etc., and that afterwards you can remove clamps but not to exert any force/stress for at least 24 hours.

That said, how long do you leave your clamps on?  FWIW - I'm using Titebond II.

 

[ChuckM]

If I don't need to use the clamps in the assembly right away:

Yellow glue - overnight (if done in the late afternoon) or 6 - 8 hours (longer if I forget about it).

If I need those clamps as soon as possible: 2 hours.

Exception: Old Brown glue (hide glue): overnight or at least 10 hours, usually a lot more.

I have never had one single glue failure in my life, so I guess I'll stick to my old habit.

 

[RJNeal]

Time also depends on temperature your shop. I would go with what the labels says plus plus a little more time.

 

[Bugsysiegals]

Titebond says, "Apply a heavy spread of glue to the surface and clamp for a minimum of 30 minutes.  Do not stress joints for 24 hours.".  My glue has an manufacture date of 2015 but has been sitting on the shelf only having been opened a few times and still smells normal, spreads like new glue, and has only a small discoloration layer on top of the large bottles. 

That said, it seems the glue is still good?  If so, should I allow more than 2 hours clamp time since it's aged ... maybe 4, 6, 8 hours, etc.?  Any thoughts were I should use up the Titebond Original vs Titebond II?

View attachment 1

 

[afish]

I always use T3 but it says 30min. too, if memory serves. Its set up pretty solid after 30-60min but its also easy to loose track of time and I have never timed it but I can lightly handle parts after what feels like a short time.  Just avoid putting any heavy stress or racking force.  If its domino drawers I place mine on the bench so the sides are facing up and place the domino vertical so the handle is pointing straight up and plunge straight down. 

 

[woodferret]

My glue has an manufacture date of 2015 but has been sitting on the shelf only having been opened a few times and still smells normal, spreads like new glue, and has only a small discoloration layer on top of the large bottles. 

That said, it seems the glue is still good?  If so, should I allow more than 2 hours clamp time since it's aged ... maybe 4, 6, 8 hours, etc.?  Any thoughts were I should use up the Titebond Original vs Titebond II?

View attachment 1

5 years is a long time, especially in a non-temp controlled environment (?).  I'd toss it.  The orange is it gel'ing and while you can pour it into a receiver and monitor the pour's viscosity, it's not worth the risk/time.

 

[Bugsysiegals]

I always use T3 but it says 30min. too, if memory serves. Its set up pretty solid after 30-60min but its also easy to loose track of time and I have never timed it but I can lightly handle parts after what feels like a short time.  Just avoid putting any heavy stress or racking force.  If its domino drawers I place mine on the bench so the sides are facing up and place the domino vertical so the handle is pointing straight up and plunge straight down.

Unfortunately I could never get the horizontal alignment resolved of my DF 500 so I had to return it and there's no stock available.  For now I figured I could live without it by using my drawer lock bit on the drawer boxes and I'm going to spend the money on something I can use now like the Parf Guide System (you convinced me), TSO GSR and TPG sets (should be good for accurately breaking down sheets goods), and the MTR triangle.

Plus I believe I'm getting a Kreg Foreman for Christmas which should also help fill in the void of the Domino for a bit.  I see some people love that they act as clamps in that you can glue/screw and not need any clamps while others hate pocket hole screws even if you never see them...

 

[Bugsysiegals]

My glue has an manufacture date of 2015 but has been sitting on the shelf only having been opened a few times and still smells normal, spreads like new glue, and has only a small discoloration layer on top of the large bottles. 

That said, it seems the glue is still good?  If so, should I allow more than 2 hours clamp time since it's aged ... maybe 4, 6, 8 hours, etc.?  Any thoughts were I should use up the Titebond Original vs Titebond II?

View attachment 1

5 years is a long time, especially in a non-temp controlled environment (?).  I'd toss it.  The orange is it gel'ing and while you can pour it into a receiver and monitor the pour's viscosity, it's not worth the risk/time.

I'm not sure what a temp controlled environment is but it's in my 55 degree basement.  I considered as much but dreaded tossing $60+ in the trash and read from some other forum members that said as long as it's not clumping up when you pour it out that it's still fine (mine is smooth as new glue without any clumping or funny smell); however, it would be nice to know from someone who's used old glue whether their stuff fell apart or held together just fine.

 

[DeformedTree]

My glue has an manufacture date of 2015 but has been sitting on the shelf only having been opened a few times and still smells normal, spreads like new glue, and has only a small discoloration layer on top of the large bottles. 

But does it still taste good on toast, that's how you know it is still good.

 

[Bugsysiegals]

My glue has an manufacture date of 2015 but has been sitting on the shelf only having been opened a few times and still smells normal, spreads like new glue, and has only a small discoloration layer on top of the large bottles. 

But does it still taste good on toast, that's how you know it is still good.

Funny ... that reminded me of kindergarten when kids would eat glue in Art class!  Maybe I could send it off the Elementary school for testing...

 

[afish]

Im no expert but I think you can only eat the white glue... Why not do a test tonight glue a couple scraps and clamp them overnight see if they break apart easily tomorrow before throwing away all the glue.

 

[zapdafish]

if I use pocket holes, once the screws are in the clamps come off.

if I dont use pocket holes, over night.

 

[ChuckM]

Don't throw away your "expired" glue yet -- until you've read this:

From the authority:

"When used in reference to wood glues, reaching the stated shelf life does not mean that a product will "expire" or become unusable. Instead, we view the stated shelf life of most of our glues merely as a guideline to avoid potential aging concerns. In reality, as long as products like Titebond Original, Titebond II and Titebond III remain fluid, without a drastic change in appearance, they will continue to perform as intended."

Shelf life sheet -http://www.titebond.com/App_Static/Literature/ff876_ShelfLife.pdf

On glue storage:

"... For example, store a bottle of white or yellow wood glue (polyvinyl acetate, or PVA glue) in optimum conditions, and it can last 10 years or longer. This goes for our popular Titebond® Original, Titebond II and Titebond III PVA glues, too."
http://blog.titebond.com/page/how-to-store-your-wood-glue-for-longer-life

So cool basements are good for glue storage, too. I store Old Brown glue (bottled hide glue) in the fridge.

I regularly use glue several years old or more (because I use whatever glue that's within reach instead of checking the purchase date, and so glue is not used in an FIFO fashion). As long as it's not gummy and still smells normal, it's good glue. Not one single glue failure in the past 25 years with glue consistently used in such manner.

The bottle shown in the image with a purchase date of June 2018 could be more than three years old, depending on when it was actually put on the shelf by the vendor. I'll use it until all is gone.

 

[Bugsysiegals]

Im no expert but I think you can only eat the white glue... Why not do a test tonight glue a couple scraps and clamp them overnight see if they break apart easily tomorrow before throwing away all the glue.

I actually cut up 4 cedar fence planks and made squirrel feeders out of them. I glued them up with the TB II and while there’s no significant weight in them, they’ve been outdoors and none have fallen apart yet ... not sure if this counts? 

I lost my glue up sponge which I get wet and wipe away squeeze out but figured I’d get to test my WoodPeckers carbide scraper ... bad idea, it didn’t work that great.  Instead I had to use my spare hand plane blade which was still a pain to remove the glue ... not sure if that shows anything related to strength and adhesion.

 

[Bugsysiegals]

Don't throw away your "expired" glue yet -- until you've read this:

From the authority:

"When used in reference to wood glues, reaching the stated shelf life does not mean that a product will "expire" or become unusable. Instead, we view the stated shelf life of most of our glues merely as a guideline to avoid potential aging concerns. In reality, as long as products like Titebond Original, Titebond II and Titebond III remain fluid, without a drastic change in appearance, they will continue to perform as intended."

Shelf life sheet -http://www.titebond.com/App_Static/Literature/ff876_ShelfLife.pdf

On glue storage:

"... For example, store a bottle of white or yellow wood glue (polyvinyl acetate, or PVA glue) in optimum conditions, and it can last 10 years or longer. This goes for our popular Titebond® Original, Titebond II and Titebond III PVA glues, too."
http://blog.titebond.com/page/how-to-store-your-wood-glue-for-longer-life

So cool basements are good for glue storage, too. I store Old Brown glue (bottled hide glue) in the fridge.

I regularly use glue several years old or more (because I use whatever glue that's within reach instead of checking the purchase date, and so glue is not used in an FIFO fashion). As long as it's not gummy and still smells normal, it's good glue. Not one single glue failure in the past 25 years with glue consistently used in such manner.

The bottle shown in the image with a purchase date of June 2018 could be more than three years old, depending on when it was actually put on the shelf by the vendor. I'll use it until all is gone.

Thanks [member=57948]ChuckM[/member] ... I’d read that 10 year segment before but wondered if my cool basement and the very thin discoloration meant I had the “ideal” condition. 

I guess I’ll glue some scrap together and see if I can pull it apart or hammer it apart at the glue joint and then I’ll know if it’s still strong adhesion or not ...

 

[Bob D.]

"...but dreaded tossing $60+ in the trash ..."

If you have that much glue hanging around after 5 years I would say you might be buying too much glue at once. Doesn't matter if the gallon jug is on sale for a ridiculously low price, if you end up tossing it because it goes bad it's not a 'bargain'.

Of course how much is enough depends on the volume or projects coming through your shop. There should be a date code on the bottle.
http://www.titebond.com/resources/use/glues/faqs

 

[woodferret]

My experience with using questionable glue is from laminating boards.  I decanted the glue into a separate container to avoid the gel layer.  It seemed fine, but it apparently contained hidden floaters that I could see once I spread the glue out.  It wasn't much, but quite annoying to pick out the gel while trying to get things together.  In the end, it still worked, is up on my window sill - luckily, I was dealing with large boards so I can treat them as non-telegraphing glue voids.  The stresses on the piece are low as I'm not dealing with moment arms like in furniture.  If it was that situation and the glue-joint was integral, then definately it was not worth saving a trip in the snow.

 

[kevinculle]

It depends entirely on the details of the particular job.  If it's a glue and screw joint just enough time to clean up the squeeze-out.  For general work where I have subsequent steps the same day a minimum of 1 hour.  For a critical joint that will have significant loading in service or where dimensional stability of the assembly is critical to following steps, overnight.  These would be with TBIII which is my go to adhesive.  When the strength or gap filling capacity of epoxy is needed I use West System G-Flex and go with 24 hour curing.

 

[Bugsysiegals]

"...but dreaded tossing $60+ in the trash ..."

If you have that much glue hanging around after 5 years I would say you might be buying too much glue at once. Doesn't matter if the gallon jug is on sale for a ridiculously low price, if you end up tossing it because it goes bad it's not a 'bargain'.

Of course how much is enough depends on the volume or projects coming through your shop. There should be a date code on the bottle.
http://www.titebond.com/resources/use/glues/faqs

It wasn’t on sale ... I bought most of my woodworking tools and glue ~5 years ago as I intended to build kitchen, dining, and laundry room cabinets but life threw some curve balls and it’s all sat with minimal use. 

 

[Packard]

"Corner Weld" glue revolutionized the picture framing business back in the 1980s.  It replaced white glue (Elmers) and was much stronger.  It was said to be "optimized for end-grain (miter) glue-ups".

I tested its strength recently against Woodworkers III and found that they were essentially equal in strength (Woodworkers's I, II, or III were not available when CornerWeld came out).

What I did find is that CornerWeld glue would set-up in under a minute.  I would apply the glue to the surfaces of the miters, rub the surfaces together and within 30 seconds they would no longer slip and the grip would start. 

Woodworkers III took about 10 minutes to achieve that same result. 

So if you are looking for a strong bond and very fast setup, then look for some CornerWeld glue.  It is not as easy to find, but it is sold through most picture frame wholesale suppliers.

Amazon shows the product but when you get to the site it is listed as "currently unavailable". 

Lots of listings, but I don't know any of these vendors, so no recommendation.
https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=cornerweld+glue