Guide rail speed square... dedicated 90 for crosscutting and shelf dadoes.

[James Watriss]

So, I've had an idea for a while of working up a shop jig to bolt to the underside of the guide rail. It would:
-Provide a fence underneath the rail at a calibrated 90 degrees.
-Extend to the left of the guide rail, referencing off of the left (non cutting) edge.
-Have a 'web' of sorts to both brace the jig against the rail, and provide a comfortable holding place to hold the combined jig firmly against the edge of the work.
-Be removable.
-Be re-calibrate-able, (via set screws embedded in the edge that registers against the rail) but NON-ADJUSTABLE. I don't want a protractor, I don't care about 45, 30, 22.5 degrees... I want a dedicated, durable, repeatable 90.
-Have an efficient way to screw a scrap of wood or other material to the fence, to extend to the right, and use as a 'starter block' for cutting dadoes... the idea is similar to the plastic edge of the guiderail. Once the router has massed through the material, the edges of the cut are defined in this block. From there, the edges of this groove can be lined up with layout marks on the work.

The aim for this accessory is to support a half-length rail for rapid movements for cutting dadoes and making a lot of crosscuts. Slide the jig down to the desired location, press in to register, make the cut, repeat.

Ideally, it would come in two variants. One, the jig itself, for use by those of us who already have old, damaged rails to cut in half. The other, sold as a set with a new, half-length rail.

 

[score0matic]

James
I went through this very process last year.  Here are some things to thinkabout
1 the 800mm rail is small enough to do what you are asking.
2  if you want to make it deticated to the square try taping the grip strips with scotch tape  that will help it
3 here is the thread of my square from an FS-KS  http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-jigs-tool-enhancements/building-a-better-crosscut-guide-fs-ks-to-fs-ch-%28craig-h%29/

your idea is very handy and i hope this helps you on your way
Craig

 

[fshanno]

James,

Yep, the Holy Grail.  Accurate portable 90? crosscutting. 

I've gotten pretty good results using one arm of the FS-PA but it's hit or miss.  In my wacky out-of-square world it's usually okay.

Frankly, I don't think the guide itself is up to this task.  Festool didn't even attempt this when they designed the MFT.  Dino over at Eurekazone has one but think it has experienced problems too and his guide is stronger than the Festool guide.

I think you're going to run into trouble if you make it re-calibrate-able.  I think the answer may be a T-square/guide that comes in one piece from the factory.  Ideally it would be machined from one piece of aluminum like those expensive triangles and squares from Woodpeckers and Pinnacle.

How wide a crosscut do you want?

 

[Roseland]

I also considered making one of these.

One of the problems is fixing the fence without getting in the way of the clamp slot.

I gave up and got and MFT/3 and haven't regretted it.

A

 

[PaulMarcel]

DeWalt makes a T-square (90*-only)T-square (90*-only) accessory for its track.  It fits the Festool track as well.  Mine is pretty much dead on.  There's a screw to kill the play in the slot; what little mine is off is due to the play because I remove it from the track often.  If I have a series of crosscuts, I tighten it up and it squares right away.  It is machined from one piece and is easily found for $30.  If you were to dedicate a track... you'd be set even if it took a little shimming under the lock.

 

[James Watriss]

Thanks Paul. : )

Take that, naysayers...

 

[fshanno]

DeWalt makes a T-square (90*-only)T-square (90*-only) accessory for its track.  It fits the Festool track as well.  Mine is pretty much dead on.  There's a screw to kill the play in the slot; what little mine is off is due to the play because I remove it from the track often.  If I have a series of crosscuts, I tighten it up and it squares right away.  It is machined from one piece and is easily found for $30.  If you were to dedicate a track... you'd be set even if it took a little shimming under the lock.

I've got one too.  Not a bad little attachment.  I thought it was going to be the answer.  But before I had a chance to use it on anything real I went ahead and got the FS-PA.  I'm going to go back and give it a good try out on something real and see.  I'd like to dedicate the FS-PA to ripping anyway.

Have you tried it for wide crosscuts?  24" and up? 

I went ahead and put a 55" on my MFT and I'm dedicating the short guide that came with it to crosscutting. 

 

[PaulMarcel]

Yes, I used the T-square for large crosscuts.  Up to 24", I prefer the MFT.  Beyond that, I tend to cut on a door laid on the driveway.  I used to cut oversized because I'd mark 3 dots and connect them.  I use the T-square for that.  When I tested it for square, I had made a second crosscut for a panel so the bottom edge was factory with the two crosscut sides from my saw.  I measured a diagonal vs the factory side length and crosscut length to see the angle.  The error was so marginal to be ignorable.

Two things I'd add:

1) I got it on preorder when they came out and never read any reviews.  I reviewed it pretty well on TheWoodwhisperer.com, but that was the old forum that went away. Anyway, today I see 1 review on Amazon and the guy complains it isn't square.  How he complains tells me he didn't try verifying anything.

2) When you place the guiderail down, the high-friction strips on the back work against you.  You kinda need to hold it up at an angle, put the T-square to the edge, the tip it down.  I usually then give it a bump to make sure it is seated.  If you just drop the guide on the board and try to shimmy the T-square to the edge, I found that the visible part would initially look registered, but underneath was away from the edge a hair; that's where the error comes in.

 

[James Watriss]

When I think about it, I'm looking for a method that will allow me to slide the rail up and down the board. So maybe removing the friction strips would be the smart thing to do anyway.

Is there a (factory designed) way to screw a wooden face or something to the fence like I described?

 

[JEP]

James,

I just finished my t-square attachment for a 1400 guide rail to break down sheet goods.  It seems to be just what you are looking for.  I designed it for cutting plywood with the TS55, but it could be adapted for use with a router. 

It's been tested, but next week it'll get the workout building some bookcases.  After test cutting several panels, I was consistently getting square panels measuring within 0.5mm on the diagonal. 

I found that a snap toggle, pictured, with just a few hits of a file will fit very nicely into the slot on the guide rail.  This is what I used to attach the t-square to the guide rail with 1/4-20 hex bolts.  One mounts under the rail on the near end, and the other mounts in the top slot at the far end of the triangle.  I had to cut a hex bolt to about 5/8" long so it would not dimple the guide rail when tightened.  The top mounted bolt clears the saw housing and allows me 45mm depth of cut, not the saw max, but for 3/4" plywood it doesn't matter.

I enlarged the two holes in the square where it attaches to the fence so I could calibrate it.  These bolts screw into t nuts mounted under the fence.  The far corner of the triangle is pocket screwed together.  There are four bolts that hold it square.  It can come off the rail, by removing the two bolts in the guide rail slots, without loosing square because of the third leg of the triangle.  This repeatability was required for the design.

The scale and moveable stop is still a work in progress.

Hope this idea helps.  If you want more details, I'll be glad to provide them.

Joe

 

[score0matic]

JEP
Welcome to the Forum
That looks like a nifty jig?
how do you store it for travel?
i like how you can set it for your cuts.
Good Job
Craig

 

[fshanno]

Yes, I used the T-square for large crosscuts.  Up to 24", I prefer the MFT.  Beyond that, I tend to cut on a door laid on the driveway.  I used to cut oversized because I'd mark 3 dots and connect them.  I use the T-square for that.  When I tested it for square, I had made a second crosscut for a panel so the bottom edge was factory with the two crosscut sides from my saw.  I measured a diagonal vs the factory side length and crosscut length to see the angle.  The error was so marginal to be ignorable.

Two things I'd add:

1) I got it on preorder when they came out and never read any reviews.  I reviewed it pretty well on TheWoodwhisperer.com, but that was the old forum that went away. Anyway, today I see 1 review on Amazon and the guy complains it isn't square.  How he complains tells me he didn't try verifying anything.

2) When you place the guiderail down, the high-friction strips on the back work against you.  You kinda need to hold it up at an angle, put the T-square to the edge, the tip it down.  I usually then give it a bump to make sure it is seated.  If you just drop the guide on the board and try to shimmy the T-square to the edge, I found that the visible part would initially look registered, but underneath was away from the edge a hair; that's where the error comes in.

Paul,

I like the MFT too.  I get consistently good results there.  My problem is all the lifting and carrying and rotating to get both ends of a piece square. 

I'm going to take a second look at my DeWalt gizmo.  If it turns out it's not square couldn't I just grind the face that meets the reference surface?  I've done that with speed squares and gotten them dead on.

 

[PaulMarcel]

Oh you definitely could shim the gizmo to square it.  I wouldn't think you'd need to grind the faces.  The finish on mine is pretty nice.  If there's an adjustment, it would be to add little bits of metal tape to the part that slides into the track.  When you tighten it, it will center but if that's off you'd be out of square.  I'd think metal tape pieces could rectify that.

Completely agree with your idea.  Guess I was only stating how I crosscut.  I don't think you'll be disappointed with the gizmo.  Personally, if I ever talk myself into a 2700 guiderail, I'll attach the gizmo to my spare rail permanently and ensure it is dead on.

 

[Dane]

Check this thing out.  [attachimg=#]
From an article in the October issue of JLC called "Practical Cabinetmaking."  Guy had a custom square made for his rail, I've bee meaning to figure out how to contact him and ask where he got that thing.  You can purchase the article on jlconline and see how they use it.

 

[rookie08]

Joe,

That huge square is great!  I'd be interested to see/hear how you do with your cabinets and later, the scale and stop block if you can.  I need to build a bunch of cabinets myself.

Nice job!

 

[woodshopdemos]

I did it a litle diferent. I used one of the two fences that make up the parallel guide system. Set it a calibrated 90 and then added the Gecko to make it more solid on the workpiece. Have had it that way for months and love it. Always get good perpendicular cuts. Gecko will not hold a vacuum on a lot of the material I cut but it provides good traction so that guide raill doesnt move during the cut.

Story is here: http://www.woodshopdemos.com/Fes-Parallel-3.htm

 

[fshanno]

I did it a litle diferent. I used one of the two fences that make up the parallel guide system. Set it a calibrated 90 and then added the Gecko to make it more solid on the workpiece. Have had it that way for months and love it. Always get good perpendicular cuts. Gecko will not hold a vacuum on a lot of the material I cut but it provides good traction so that guide raill doesnt move during the cut.
http://www.woodshopdemos.com/Fes-Pa38.jpg[/img

Story is here: [url=http://www.woodshopdemos.com/Fes-Parallel-3.htm]http://www.woodshopdemos.com/Fes-Parallel-3.htm[/url]
[/quote]

John,

How do you calibrate the FS-PA for square?

 

[Brice Burrell]

John,

How do you calibrate the FS-PA for square?

Not to step on John's toes but this is a tricky subject. There are two brass screws that are for adjusting the fit of the T-bracket to the rail. In theory these screws could be adjusted to help square the guide to the rail for perpendicular cuts. In practice this doesn't work out always because there isn't much adjustment available in the screws before they tighten down on the rail. You can get the guides close and maybe even very, very close to square but I wouldn't take it to the bank. 

 

[greg mann]

John,

How do you calibrate the FS-PA for square?

Not to step on John's toes but this is a tricky subject. There are two brass screws that are for adjusting the fit of the T-bracket to the rail. In theory these screws could be adjusted to help square the guide to the rail for perpendicular cuts. In practice this doesn't work out always because there isn't much adjustment available in the screws before they tighten down on the rail. You can get the guides close and maybe even very, very close to square but I wouldn't take it to the bank.   

Actually, Brice, I do not think the screws will adjust for square. I think they only take up slack and the dritical surface for squareness it opposite the screws. I am going to take another look when I get home just to make sure I am not mistaken. I also use a single parallel guide rail as a square and find it to be quite accurate. The advantage these larger legs have is a longer register. I never trust factory edges as they are hit or miss. Most of the time they seem to be okay for registering off but now and then I need to true up the edge I want to use a my reference. It always helps and I will do it if the components demand that level of accuracy.

Sometimes it is cumbersome to move an 8 foot chunk of plywood to the MFT for cut off, even if it is only a foot wide. What if you want a piece that calls for an offcut 40 inches long? You need to support the offcut so it doesn't crash to the floor. If you use one parallel guide with a portable rail and a cutting table it is a snap as you can leave it supported on the table. Options are great.

 

[Brice Burrell]

Actually, Brice, I do not think the screws will adjust for square......

That's what I was getting at.