Just got my BD rail square and I've been doing some test cuts. Do you guys always get perfect square cuts? When I check the squareness of the jig to rail, it shows perfect as my Woodpeckers square can show, but the cuts aren't always dead-on square. Is the typical or am I doing something wrong? I do try to make sure the square is against the workpiece every time, but that doesn't always do it.
Guide Rail Square...Do You Get Perfect Square Cuts?
- Thread starter darita
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I can pick up any tool, no matter how well calibrated, use it casually, and get poor results. I think one of the common misconceptions in woodworking, especially with the advent of YouTube, is that you can throw money at the problem and immediately get good results. Also, I think watching Marc Spagnuolo get out his 0.003" feeler gauge and complain about a table being off by that much makes a lot of people think they have to be machinists even though they're trying to build a cabinet.
All of that said, I get repeatably excellent results with my TSO rail square. I assume your Bench Dogs one should provide you with similar results, but I have no ability to speak to it. When I first got mine, it took me a little bit of intentional practice to make sure I could get repeatable results. I fully expect that to be the case with every tool I pick up. Woodworking is a craft, no matter how much money you throw at the tools.
noun
1.
an activity involving skill in making things by hand.
"the craft of bookbinding"
-r
All of that said, I get repeatably excellent results with my TSO rail square. I assume your Bench Dogs one should provide you with similar results, but I have no ability to speak to it. When I first got mine, it took me a little bit of intentional practice to make sure I could get repeatable results. I fully expect that to be the case with every tool I pick up. Woodworking is a craft, no matter how much money you throw at the tools.
noun
1.
an activity involving skill in making things by hand.
"the craft of bookbinding"
-r
rmwarren
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Agreed. I use a TSO GRS for sheet goods and, if I'm not intentional, it's easy to get a cut that is a mm out from one end to the other.
To avoid this, I'll typically swipe the reference edge with a sanding block to clean off any cut-fuzz before registering the square against it. I also kind of "rock" the rail into place by tipping it up (with the square against the reference edge) and letting the rails far end settle down onto the sheet. This avoids the non-slip strips causing any misalignment. Seems to help.
RMW
To avoid this, I'll typically swipe the reference edge with a sanding block to clean off any cut-fuzz before registering the square against it. I also kind of "rock" the rail into place by tipping it up (with the square against the reference edge) and letting the rails far end settle down onto the sheet. This avoids the non-slip strips causing any misalignment. Seems to help.
RMW
Bertotti
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I have had similar problems with the non-slip pads grabbing just a bit. I tend to place and recheck placement a couple of times by lifting the edge up to let the pads relax. I took the hinge assembly off my MFT and now use the TSO square and parallel guides. I never had good luck with the hinge assy, I would constantly have to recheck it for square.
I used to think a sheet of Plywood is square. So when I would take down the plywood with my TS55 and the TSO Guide Rail Square most of the time my cut was slightly off. Then after watching a couple of YouTubers I decided to follow their advice. Before cutting up the sheet to size, I would square it up. I'd take about 1/4" off one edge on the long side and then using the previous cut edge as a reference I trimmed the short side. Then I start taking down the sheet. My results are much better now
OK...good tips. Seems there is a slight learning curve, so I'll keep at it. I have no doubt the BD Rail Square is good, so I'll concentrate on my placement technique. I do use Makita replacement splinter guards and they are very sticky, so I'll have to keep that in mind. Thanks for all the tips.
jeffinsgf said:
I never understand why people would trust the non-slip strip for precision cuts, especially the long cuts. For rough cuts, yes, no clamps may be needed, but if you're aiming for square cuts, you want nothing (except the saw) to move.
During the time I had the TS75, every cut was clamped down. If the reason is that the screw clamps are inconvenient, invest in a pair of Festool quick release clamps or get something compatible with the track.
Before I got my TSO Squaring arm, I used carpenters’ square stair gages and two aluminum yard sticks (48” actually).
I have always found that the factory edges on sheet goods are square/parallel to the other edges.
I would attach the stair clamps at the measurement I want, and then use one at each end of the track to make sure it was parallel to the factory edge.
A little slow, but perhaps a bit more accurate than the squaring arm. And cheap too.
I have always found that the factory edges on sheet goods are square/parallel to the other edges.
I would attach the stair clamps at the measurement I want, and then use one at each end of the track to make sure it was parallel to the factory edge.
A little slow, but perhaps a bit more accurate than the squaring arm. And cheap too.
Are factory edges square to each other? I don't know, but I do know that the panel saws (Home Depot, Lowe's, Rona (which is taking over all Lowe's) or local lumber yards) do not produce square cuts. Never trust those (poorly or never calibrated?) saws. I avoid the problem by rough sizing the sheets at the big box stores (over size by 1/4"), and true them to final sizes on my SawStop.
Cheese
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jeffinsgf said:
I agree and it can vary even with the same plywood sheet manufacturer. Recently I purchased 6 sheets of ply from Menards. Only 2 were square, the other 4 sheets were out of square. I was actually surprised that even 2 of the sheets were square because normally every sheet is out of whack.
Crazyraceguy
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Square? I wouldn't count on it. The long edges are usually pretty good about being parallel, but square? not so much.
Heck particle board comes 1" over-size in both directions, just for this reason, and to cut off any handling damage.
As far as the original topic is concerned, there is a little bit of a technique involved, which varies somewhat from person to person. It's not really a throw it down and it's perfect thing. Some skill/input is required, not to say it's hard, but some practice is good.
In general, I don't clamp the track for most cuts. The cuts on the cross-cut station are constrained by the dogs, so no need there either. The one time I always use clamps though is for bevel cuts. The force is not fully downward onto the grip strips, in the first place, then you are pushing (potentially) the track away from the cut line.
Heck particle board comes 1" over-size in both directions, just for this reason, and to cut off any handling damage.
As far as the original topic is concerned, there is a little bit of a technique involved, which varies somewhat from person to person. It's not really a throw it down and it's perfect thing. Some skill/input is required, not to say it's hard, but some practice is good.
In general, I don't clamp the track for most cuts. The cuts on the cross-cut station are constrained by the dogs, so no need there either. The one time I always use clamps though is for bevel cuts. The force is not fully downward onto the grip strips, in the first place, then you are pushing (potentially) the track away from the cut line.
Packard said:Before I got my TSO Squaring arm, I used carpenters’ square stair gages and two aluminum yard sticks (48” actually).
I have always found that the factory edges on sheet goods are square/parallel to the other edges.
I would attach the stair clamps at the measurement I want, and then use one at each end of the track to make sure it was parallel to the factory edge.
A little slow, but perhaps a bit more accurate than the squaring arm. And cheap too.
Hmm? I live in Western Arizona and occassionally I will buy a sheet of Maple Plywood at Lowes. I am always amazed that at least one edge of Lowes Maple Plywood is "scalloped" all the way down the edge. It seems odd to me that they would even consider that a saleable sheet of plywood. I always thought it should be sold as a "2nd" and reduce the price
"Do you get perfectly square cuts?"
Maybe the question should be, "Do you need perfectly square cuts?"
If so, this is the wrong process and it will not meet your expectations.
Fiddling with an incapable process is time consuming and frustrating.
If you really need "perfectly square" cuts for, let's say some artful joinery, get a shooting board.
If you do not need "perfectly square" cuts then quit obsessing and finish your project.
Maybe the question should be, "Do you need perfectly square cuts?"
If so, this is the wrong process and it will not meet your expectations.
Fiddling with an incapable process is time consuming and frustrating.
If you really need "perfectly square" cuts for, let's say some artful joinery, get a shooting board.
If you do not need "perfectly square" cuts then quit obsessing and finish your project.
Crazyraceguy
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krudawg said:
From what I have seen (at least here in Ohio) retailers, like big box stores, could not care less about the quality of the lumber they sell, if they tried. They will gladly sell you a sheet that looks like a Pringle or a 2x4 that looks like a pretzel. Most of the hardwood suppliers are better. We have one that is a bit cheaper, but the quality is not as good either. It's not as bad as the box stores, somewhere in between. They are close, easy to deal with and you can get longer lengths than the box stores.
I would guess that anything that ever gets discounted like that goes to employees or their friends.
Personally, I would rather buy rough and do it myself, but it's not always an option.
squall_line
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Crazyraceguy said:
If I had a nickel for every video or tutorial that started with "first, we have to joint the edges" and included "now run it through the planer", I'd be able to retire tomorrow. Or the guys who build full up mortise-and-tenon projects out of 2x4 studs, but only after gluing them into 8x8s and milling them down to 6x6s...
Online there's "all you need is a circular saw and a straight edge", "my local cabinet supplier off loaded the sheets directly into my garage for free", "you just need 3-phase to run a simple dust collection", "hashtag-hand tools for life", "dust will kill you", "noise will kill you", "PPE is underrated; hashtag-bunnysuit", "red aluminum is the best", "blue aluminum only", "factory accessories are the best", and "starting with rough lumber from your local sawmill", "square isn't good enough", "square is all in your mind, it's just wood"....... It's one of the things that continues to turn me off of trying to even bother getting better at or getting deeper into woodworking, aside from a lack of time.
Maybe it's just social media in general, but honestly, the resources for figuring out how to work out of a given sized space and with a given resource load are just too scattered and contradictory and lead to significant wasted time and money for a lot of people. It keeps the tool builders, retailers, and secondary markets in business, though...
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