Guide Rail system

[Hoover]

...However, please keep EZ out of the dicussions, even as an example....

Dan - Don't you think you are going just a bit overboard???  I do.

Sadly he isn't. 

I checked out that link from dan to the JLC site and was wondering what the issue was until I scrolled down far enough and saw YCF Dino (he's the EZ inventor/owner) and I knew where the thread was going to go.  And in that thread, you'll notice what happens with almost all the thread, Dino and 2 or 3 brand new posters start a flame war and not a discussion.  I notice one name right away, Burt.  He goes by burts on the Fine Homebuilding site and from his posts, he is almost certainly a paid rep for EZ.  There are a few others on FHB (David Wood for one) and other sites that are probably paid reps and they are extremely pushy sellers on a free message for that is for an exchange of ideas.

Lou Miller who posts here a lot started this thread on JLC and Dino jumped in on page two and...well read for yourself.  Similarly to the one Dan posted, Dino caused this one from last year to be closed too. http://forums.jlconline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=205207&postcount=1

Of the 109 posts that Burt has made under his "burts" signon on FHB, I counted at least 50 that were EZ posts and when I say posts, I mean sales pitches similar to a car sales pitch.

Notice in these two links how Burts (same one from JLC thread, he's talked about his operation on FHB before) follows up the post from David Wood.
http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=90722.12http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=94745.1
http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=87818.9http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=81473.20

 

[Daviddubya]

David,

Given the long, negative history of EZ vs Festool discussions, it's a necessary precaution.  Sorry, but that's just the way it is.

Regards,

Dan.

I am very familiar with the history.  I have been a participant in some of those threads you are concerned about, and we do not want to see that behavior repeated here.  Suggesting that we "please keep EZ out of the dicussions, even as an example" is a silly extreme in my mind.  Surely, we mature folks can mention EZ without getting our undies in a tizzy.  Whatever.

ps - Providing links and making reference to old threads that demonstrate the issue is simply fanning the flames of discontent, IMHO of course.

 

[Lou Miller]

Hoover,

I think the best thing to do is just let sleeping dogs lie. Bringing up anything from the past with them is counter productive. They'll use your post, or mine, or Dan's, or from whoever, to start the ad campaign all over again. It doesn't take much. They're all probably over at SMC belly aching about this thread already.

Fortunately, they really haven't been much of an issue here (thanks to Matthew) and I think most would like to leave it that way.

 

[Hoover]

Hoover,

I think the best thing to do is just let sleeping dogs lie. Bringing up anything from the past with them is counter productive. They'll use your post, or mine, or Dan's, or from whoever, to start the ad campaign all over again. It doesn't take much. They're all probably over at SMC belly aching about this thread already.

Fortunately, they really haven't been much of an issue here (thanks to Matthew) and I think most would like to leave it that way.

Agreed, that will probably be best.

They're all probably over at SMC belly aching about this thread already.

I am going to bed with a wide smile on my face.  Thanks, Lou.

 

[Dan Clark]

Hoover,

I think the best thing to do is just let sleeping dogs lie. Bringing up anything from the past with them is counter productive. They'll use your post, or mine, or Dan's, or from whoever, to start the ad campaign all over again. It doesn't take much. They're all probably over at SMC belly aching about this thread already.

Fortunately, they really haven't been much of an issue here (thanks to Matthew) and I think most would like to leave it that way.

Lou,

Good points, especially about "...most would like to leave it that way." 

Best regards,

Dan.

 

[rodwolfy]

Regarding your question about making "PERFECT dados EVERY time", I'm not sure that's possible without an expensive production line system.  That said...

Have you looked at the the Festool Guide Stops and Edge Guides?  Here's a link to one of the vendors:http://www.bobmarinosbesttools.com/subcategory.html?sid=30153f027c090cbf48b55323e70fa5e1&scat=18.  The Edge Guides would work without a Festool Guide rail and you use the Festool Guide Stops with a rail.

There's another vendor (whose name escapes be now) that makes a similar guide adapter that works with Festool Guide Rails and Festool Routers.   They make fantastic stuff that is supposed even better than Festool.   I think this other product runs between $200 and $400.   I liked what I saw, but it seemed pricey to me.  Since the Festool Guide Stop is only $63, I decided to stick with that.

Regards,

Dan.

Dan,

To throw in another wrench... Can I use the Festool Guide stop for another brand of router? I saw someone's post about using the 1400 with the guide rail. They said that it was ungainly as the router doesn't sit down on the work surface properly without a new sub-base.

If I have a Bosch 1617, could I just make my own Guide Stop system for the rail and save myself the money from the purchase of the 1400?

 

[Overtime]

Yes you can, here's something on that subject  FESTOOL I think.

 

[Dave Rudy]

Scrap,

I guess my first question is what do you mean by a perfect dado?  In other words, what problem are you trying to solve?  The Festool guide rail guarantees a cut that is completely parallel to the rail.  The micro-adjuster allows you to make micro adjustments to the distance between the rail and the cut.  The Festool routers allow you to align to the center line of the dado.  Of course, you can also align to one side or the other.  Finally, the rail stops allow you to stop and start a cut at a repeatable length and distance from end of guide rail.

Does that answer the question?

P.S.  Whether Dan jumped too quickly or not, I am one who has been verbally assaulted and had my integrity questioned for having the temerity to question some of the claims made by EZ.  Sorry if you were offended by the reaction here, and what some may perceive as ultra-sensitivity.  As the saying goes,  "been there, done that."  The EZ threads on other forums have spiralled out of control so quickly that they frequently got (get) extremely ugly even when shut down.  Basically, we are not looking for dogfights here.  Just an honest effort to share and help each other do what we do better.  When someone comes in innocently and asks a question, he may not be aware of all the history.  But there is a history, and it's ugly.

That's the reason for what may appear to be hypersensitivity.  Comparing the systems is not unreasonable; the questions are not unreasonable.  The attitudes of others not present are unreasonable.

Thanks for asking the question.  If this doesn't answer it, let us know.

Dave

 

[Scrap]

Hey Dave, thanks but my question was in fact answered, but to be clear what I meant by "perfect dado" is:

Routing multiple dadoes to the exact width of the mating piece. for example if I am making a bunch of dadoes for a 3/4" thick piece of ply wood, all being the same width without having to set up the fence for each individual time.

I'm sorry if my explanation made things even less clear, but the truth is I found the answer to my question anyway so I am not worried about it anymore.

And for the record, I am perfectly aware of the history, I've watched this crap go on for as long as I can remember participating in woodworking message boards which has been a few years now and I've seen insults thrown from both sides.

So don't think that just because I am new here, that I don't know what's going on, I just didn't think that there was anything wrong with the way I asked my question. Now I know, so it wont happen again.

Now could somebody please lock this thread? I haven't been able to figure out how to do it myself.

 

[Lou Miller]

Why would this thread need to be locked? I don't think anything got even remotely close to being out of hand here, and there is actually some decent comments mixed in to go with the topic of "those that shall not be mentioned". Locking down a thread is not a choice for you, myself, or anyone else that is just a poster here. This is Matthew's forum, and most of us here are just along for the ride. Its his show and that decision is his, not ours. He's proven to be level headed and does a great job of running this place. I think I speak for most of the posters here in that we trust his decision making. If this needed to be locked down, I'm sure he would have already stepped in.

You said you got the answers you were looking for. Isn't that what you came for? Seems as though everything worked out the way its supposed to here. I could be wrong though...

 

[Hoover]

Nothing to lock down unless you just want the topic dropped because the question was answered.  If there is nothing for anyone to add, it will just drop down the list towards the black hole.

 

[Dan Clark]

Scrap,

I see nothing to lock.  Each of us has strong feelings, but there is quality in this thread.  Taken at face value, your original questions are good and reasonable.  It appears that many people (IMO, including me) have given you quality responses to those questions.

Regards,

Dan.

 

[Daviddubya]

Now that the excitement in this thread has diminished, I wanted to add a final observation.  Not one of the potentially offending posts that were debated here have appeared.  I looked in the aforementioned forum at SMC, and there is no mention of this thread, as was gleefully theorized.  It seems to me that everyone is staying at home and minding their own business, which is as it should be.  RIP.