Hammer-Drill vs Drill

[DanielOB]

Some drills (Screw-Drivers) are with hammer mode (Hammer-Drill). What for you use hammer?
I am not sure that hammer is useful on a such small tool.

 

[AlexThePalex]

It is mostly to make holes for small plugs up to 10 mm in masonry.

 

[Tyler Ernsberger]

Its great for drilling small holes in tile, stone and concrete.  Its not the best tool for drilling a lot of holes.  But works well when you have a handful of holes to do. 

 

[JimD]

I have a hammer drill and a rotary hammer.  Very different devices.  The hammer drill has two plates with bumps on them that move the chuck up and down a little bit when you put it in hammer mode.  As has been suggested, it will make a hole for a plastic anchor OK.  Because of the chuck, you use the inexpensive round shanked masonary drill bits. 

The rotary hammer is a totally different device.  The bits have a special shank.  It has a hammer only mode that I used to take down a chimney recently.  In hammer drill mode, it will blow a hole through a mortar joint for an anchor in seconds.  It will make an inch or better holes in old hard concrete.  It weighs maybe fifteen pounds and pulls 10 amps.  Much more heavy duty tool.

 

[six-point socket]

The usefulness of a "hammer"-drill depends on what you want to do with it.

If you have to drill holes in typically plastered brick and mortar walls it definitely is a useful feature to have. You don't need a large/heavy machine for that - the typical cordless "hammer"-drill will do just fine.

If you have to drill through concrete, it largely depends on the concrete you are facing how useful a (small) "hammer"-drill is going to be. While walls tend to have a "softer" concrete mix and also often without reinforcements, ceilings will be mostly the exact opposite - "harder" concrete mix, often reinforced. So a "hammer"-drill will likely be doing a good job in walls, ceilings are a different story and are more likely to require a bigger "gun" -> the already mentioned rotary-hammer.

I have to disagree on the use of a "hammer"-drill or worse, rotary-hammer, for tiles - special drill bits for tiles should be used at adequate speed and without any hammering, especially when the tile isn't laid yet. (I'm not saying it can't be done with a "hammer"-drill/rotary hammer, it's just begging for chipping of tiles and broken tiles)

Also it's important to understand the difference between a "hammer"-drill, rotary-hammer (and impact driver). They all work differently.

My personal opinion is that when you need to drill in brick/concrete walls with large diameters (8, 10, 12, ...) often you should go for a rotary-hammer, and substitute the speed of a "hammer"-drill for the power of the rotary-hammer. While most rotary-hammers can also drill without "hammering" their speed is still inferior.

If you want speed for working with diamond hole saws and the like, the "hammer"-drill might be a wiser choice as it will mostly run at a much higher speed and "hammering" can be turned off.

Also, if you buy a quality "hammer"-drill, concentricity will most likely be better than on a rotary-hammer, especially on rotary-hammers with exchangeable chucks. That's to be taken into account if you think about placing the machine in a drilling stand and giving it a second job at woodworking...

Kind regards,
Oliver

 

[DanielOB]

All that answers are so confusable, Are you guys use Festool to drill holes in bricks and concrete?

I have Bosch heavy duty hammer drill (Buldog/36V) to make such holes with SDS+ bits. Hole go from 3/16" to around 1-1/4" dia. I would never use such tools as Festool for Concrete. Festool are for fine furniture. That is the question. Where in fine furniture you use Hammer/Drill?

 

[teocaf]

Festool are for fine furniture.

[member=36769]DanielOB[/member]
That's an extremely limited view.  You can easily look through the festool website as well as their youtube channel, etc and see that Festools are designed for many disciplines and applications: rough carpentry, finishing carpentry, automotive, contractor trades of all types, on and on...  Yes, also for some fine furniture, though one could argue that's incidental--many of their tools would not be appropriate in any way for fine furniture.  There are lots of other uses for a hammer drill in all of the above trades.
By the way, as a way of expanding one's world view, one of the contemporary design trends is to use concrete, not only by itself, but also combined with many other materials such as wood to make fine furniture--check it out for yourself on the ol' google.

 

[AlexThePalex]

Festools are not just for fine furniture, but for everything that needs some finely dosed mechanical movement.

Especially the few Festool drills that come with a hammer function are tools that come from the Protool line, which was more aimed at general contractors.

 

[jaguar36]

I assume you are talking about the PDC Quadrive, Festool even has a picture of it drilling in concrete on their site.  I haven't used the Festool one, but my Dewalt hammerdrill makes quick work of smallish holes in brick, mortar, or concrete.  Festool also has a rotary hammer just like your Bosch that takes SDS bits now too.

 

[six-point socket]

If you solely work on fine furniture made out of wood you wouldn't gain anything by using a "hammer"-drill.

However if you hang/setup said furniture in your client's home you might want to have a tool that is capable of drilling into brick/mortar or concrete walls, be it your Bosch or a Festool.

Festool recognized this need and at some point added tools to their line-up that can do exactly that. This makes a lot of people happy because they can use batteries, extension cords, dust extractors and other accessories/consumables they already have and don't need to invest/carry around a 2nd system. Festool is happy because customers are now more likely to stay with them instead of buying a different brand.

So in short, if I wasn't as heavily invested in Bosch as I am, I would already have bought a BHC 18 and PDC 18/4 and use them to drill into concrete and brick/mortar. That's what they are made for.

Kind regards,
Oliver

 

[Holmz]

If you solely work on fine furniture made out of wood you wouldn't gain anything by using a "hammer"-drill.

However if you hang/setup said furniture in your client's home you might want to have a tool that is capable of drilling into brick/mortar or concrete walls, be it your Bosch or a Festool.

Festool recognized this need and at some point added tools to their line-up that can do exactly that. This makes a lot of people happy because they can use batteries, extension cords, dust extractors and other accessories/consumables they already have and don't need to invest/carry around a 2nd system. Festool is happy because customers are now more likely to stay with them instead of buying a different brand.

So in short, if I wasn't as heavily invested in Bosch as I am, I would already have bought a BHC 18 and PDC 18/4 and use them to drill into concrete and brick/mortar. That's what they are made for.

Kind regards,
Oliver

Does the Bosch drill the holes?

I can kind of see the point with the centrotec, but an SDS drill was created by Bosch.
If the festool one had more torque or drilled the hole better I might understand.
Basically it the main thing is it is cordless. ???

 

[Tyler Ernsberger]

I have the PDC and I have no issues drilling 4000 psi concrete.  I recently had to add some tapcons in a concret slab and had no issues.  I used a 1/4 in Bosch bit and drilled 8 holes with no problems.  I would not use the PDC to drill a lot of holes but works great for what I used it for.

As for tile.  You can use a Cordless Hammer drill on tile.  With my PDC and a Bosch Carbide bit I drilled 1/2 holes in glass tile.  I have also used it on several types of tile with no issues.  Cordless drills have a smaller hammer stroke that works GREAT for tile.  For what its worth I have used a cordless hammer drill for over 10 years drilling holes in tile and never once had one crack or chip.

I used my FESTOOL PDC for everything.  From framing to building furniture/cabinets  Its awesome drilling pocket with 3800 rpm.  Festool is not just for the shop!!!

I own the PDC, Bosch sds 1 1/8, and a Bosch sds 1 7/16.  Each drill has a job that it best sutied for. 

 

[six-point socket]

If you solely work on fine furniture made out of wood you wouldn't gain anything by using a "hammer"-drill.

However if you hang/setup said furniture in your client's home you might want to have a tool that is capable of drilling into brick/mortar or concrete walls, be it your Bosch or a Festool.

Festool recognized this need and at some point added tools to their line-up that can do exactly that. This makes a lot of people happy because they can use batteries, extension cords, dust extractors and other accessories/consumables they already have and don't need to invest/carry around a 2nd system. Festool is happy because customers are now more likely to stay with them instead of buying a different brand.

So in short, if I wasn't as heavily invested in Bosch as I am, I would already have bought a BHC 18 and PDC 18/4 and use them to drill into concrete and brick/mortar. That's what they are made for.

Kind regards,
Oliver

Does the Bosch drill the holes?

I can kind of see the point with the centrotec, but an SDS drill was created by Bosch.
If the festool one had more torque or drilled the hole better I might understand.
Basically it the main thing is it is cordless. ???

Yes, Bosch is the inventor of SDS - I really don't understand what you try to tell me here / ask of me?

I have a big load of cordless (and corded) Bosch tools that I basically like and use. However, due to some recent happenings I'm not as happy as I was before.

And from that point of view I decided to look into a different brand, Festool.

So my next purchases: track/plunge saw and a miter saw are not going to be "blue". Taking all of this into account, I said that if I didn't have a "hammer"-drill/rotary hammer from Bosch already, I would buy the Festool - and use it. That was in response to DanielOB who obviously has a hard time understanding that Festool has designated tools like the BHC 18 or PDC 18/4 which are absolutely suitable to drill into brick/mortar or concrete.

Kind regards,
Oliver

 

[Holmz]

What are the "recent happenings" that are turning you away from the Blue?

Just trying to understand if they are better than the old ones or just newer and different?

On a different note the diamond encrusted hollow drills grind through glass and tiles pretty good.

 

[six-point socket]

My turning away from the "blue" has nothing to do with the performance of the cordless/corded "hammer"-drills/rotary-hammers I have. I'm pleased with them, as I am with most of the other tools.

What turns me away is foremost an accident I had, or maybe better: an accident that was induced through one of their wall scanners (GMS 120) that by now has cost me about 1500 Euro in repairs. I talked to a few professionals about it, their opinions on wether it was the scanners fault or the mix of circumstances (door frame, low voltage cable, copper wires encased in lead...) that ultimately lead to me drilling through a telephone line that is vital to a whole row of houses... Anyway, I expected more from a professional tool.

The next thing is that my Bosch dealers close by only have very little to show. No Miter Saws, no Table Saws, no Dust Extractors, not the complete L-Boxx System..... I'm tired of running after them with catalogs and brochures only to find out they will not or they can not order something to show me, only if I guarantee to buy it.

Right now, I'm waiting on a locally placed order for some accessories for more than 3 weeks - unacceptable. And if I'm right in my assumption, if it had been ordered I would have it already - because the ordering system has a problem and sometimes gives out wrong information when availability is checked instead of simply ordered.

So yeah, I'm pretty much ticked. That's why I went out and got the CXS in first place, I wanted to calm myself down by buying a new tool. And the store clerk did a good job on hooking me, showed me a lot of other stuff, all Festool. That means as soon as I can, I get the TS75 + Rails, Kapex and a Midi-Dust extractor. - Instead of getting the "blue" equivalents which I originally wanted.

I'm not saying my remaining Bosch tools (or Bosch tools in common) are bad or anything, they are, in fact, great - I love them. But I'm just not going to give that company anymore of my money for a little while - at least until February when they ship the GEN 230-1500 - which is something I definitely need and want - and I'm hopefully calmed down enough by then .

Kind regards,
Oliver

 

[Holmz]

I feel your pain - but be heartened that you are not the the outback desert of Australia.

 

[Tyler Ernsberger]

My turning away from the "blue" has nothing to do with the performance of the cordless/corded "hammer"-drills/rotary-hammers I have. I'm pleased with them, as I am with most of the other tools.

What turns me away is foremost an accident I had, or maybe better: an accident that was induced through one of their wall scanners (GMS 120) that by now has cost me about 1500 Euro in repairs. I talked to a few professionals about it, their opinions on wether it was the scanners fault or the mix of circumstances (door frame, low voltage cable, copper wires encased in lead...) that ultimately lead to me drilling through a telephone line that is vital to a whole row of houses... Anyway, I expected more from a professional tool.

The next thing is that my Bosch dealers close by only have very little to show. No Miter Saws, no Table Saws, no Dust Extractors, not the complete L-Boxx System..... I'm tired of running after them with catalogs and brochures only to find out they will not or they can not order something to show me, only if I guarantee to buy it.

Right now, I'm waiting on a locally placed order for some accessories for more than 3 weeks - unacceptable. And if I'm right in my assumption, if it had been ordered I would have it already - because the ordering system has a problem and sometimes gives out wrong information when availability is checked instead of simply ordered.

So yeah, I'm pretty much ticked. That's why I went out and got the CXS in first place, I wanted to calm myself down by buying a new tool. And the store clerk did a good job on hooking me, showed me a lot of other stuff, all Festool. That means as soon as I can, I get the TS75 + Rails, Kapex and a Midi-Dust extractor. - Instead of getting the "blue" equivalents which I originally wanted.

I'm not saying my remaining Bosch tools (or Bosch tools in common) are bad or anything, they are, in fact, great - I love them. But I'm just not going to give that company anymore of my money for a little while - at least until February when they ship the GEN 230-1500 - which is something I definitely need and want - and I'm hopefully calmed down enough by then .

Kind regards,
Oliver

Its not Bosch's fault you drilled through the wire.  Telephone wires do not produce a lot of voltage and typically the wires are very small.  The Bosch GMS120 is on the bottom of wall scanners that Bosch makes.  You cant expect a wall scanner to be perfect.  Theres a lot of variables for it to work properly.  It doesn't say anywhere that its 100% accurate and no wall scanner manufacturer will ever put it on its product.  Sorry that you drilled through the wire,  accidents happen and the good thing out of it was a learning lesson.  Everyone messes up its life.  Just not Bosch's fault.

 

[six-point socket]

You are absolutely right, it was my fault in so many ways - but it will never happen again, that's for sure.

The biggest of my faults was to buy the GMS 120 without checking the reviews on it, because if I had done that I would have known how ambivalent its results can be under certain circumstances. But back when I purchased it, I didn't think of it. Stupid me.

EDIT: (I'm really not being sarcastic here, I know I should have done my homework better (in depth) and prior to the purchase/usage...)

Kind regards,
Oliver

 

[Holmz]

You are absolutely right, it was my fault in so many ways - but it will never happen again, that's for sure.
...

I am not sure I would use ^Never^, or maybe you will find a water pipe next time?

The purchase of a PDC will not prevent it.

If we are like each other, I expect there was some swearing happening??

 

[six-point socket]

Yes, there was a lot of swearing - but not initially, because I didn't even notice. Also not when I had to take everything down I had installed, forced open the wall or searched for the spot that I had hit the cable in. But when I learned that this cable was also vital to other houses in our row, and I had to get specialists to fix it... then swearing broke loose on my part.

It is what it is, a costly mistake made possible by a suboptimal tool, suboptimal conditions/surroundings and me having not a single clue that there was a cable in that spot. I trusted that tool, it was a mistake to do so. But I made my peace with it by knowing that there isn't a single plan showing this cable...

And like Tyler said, it was solely my mistake to trust the basic tool and not to get a better tool, for whatever that would have been worth in the end.

Kind regards,
Oliver