Help me plan my new shop.

[Rob Z]

Hello again Eric, One other thing that I would suggest that has nothing to do with wood working.....

Unless your lot is large enough that the placement of the new building won't get close to the lot lines, set backs, easements etc....get a boundary survey done before doing any planning (and not just the plat that might have been part of your real estate transaction when you bought your house).

During my career as a contractor, I can recall three  customers for whom we got a boundary survey of their property (before undertaking exterior work) and this decision paid off in a big way when it came to avoiding expensive mistakes . 

 

[peter halle]

I think I would go with a crawlspace, under-floor dust and power and a wood floor too.

However, there's one thing that needs to be considered when it comes to building shops - how permanent is your place of residence? If you move in ten years, can you get a decent return out of what you put into the shop?

Good point.  A garage adapted for usage is more likely to have a more positive rate of return even though that could be less than 100%.  Building it yourself could improve the rate.  A dedicated shop with a wood floor will appeal to fewer buyers.  At least where I live.

Peter

 

[erock]

Fantastic stuff guys !  Thank you very much!  You've definitely given me a lot to think about.

  I called the Tax auditor today….a 24x24 would only raise my property taxes by $384 a year.  It's all based off what the building cost to construct.  So if I guess a 24 x 24 garage would
cost about $15,000 my taxes go up $384/year.  Not bad.  I'm guessing $9,000 for the foundation and around $6,000 for building materials.  But that's just a guess….I'm probably way off!

I talked to my concrete contractor today.  He's in Florida until March.  My city will not let him pour concrete until a certain temp is reached.  So he usually gets back to pouring concrete

mid March.  So I'll have to wait for him to give me a quote in March.  Which gives me plenty of time to get some planning done.  He's done about 5 -6 driveways and I think 2 other garages in my neighborhood.  So I know he does good work and is worth waiting to see what kind of price he gives me. 

Until then, I'm waiting on the electrical contractor to call me back and a plumbing contractor.

I'm thinking of putting a bathroom in the new shop.  I could do the work…..I just don't want to dig the trench!  But if I have to dig a trench to save a couple bucks…..then I might buy
a pick and shovel  [scared].

I just need an electrician to run the main incoming line to the panel and I can wire the shop myself.  Again,  a trench will need to be dug.  All the utilities are underground in my
neighborhood.

Talked to the city today.  Permits will run a few bucks.  I need one for the concrete, one for the building, one for the electrical and one for the plumbing if I end up installing a toilet.

So for the next few weeks I'll be doing a lot of research and dreaming !  [big grin]

Eric

 

[Deadskins]

Eric,
Think computer room.  In 30+ years of data center experience , millions was spent on design! the engineers always came up with "raised floors".  Typically 6, 18 or even 24".  This allows for power, vents, etc.  and, if thes systems can support mainframes, they can certainly support a table saw.  If you check around, you may even be able to find the raised floor system on auction sites.

As for walls, I would certainly investigate the spray on insulation.

The Wood Whisperer has a great idea, as well as shop, by including a bathroom and washtub.  That kept him away from forays into the house and away from work.

Ranny

 

[dicktill]

Hi Eric,

Best of luck with planning and building (and outfitting!) your dream shop!!!!!
-Definitely go with the 26 x 26' (biggest you said you were allowed) and 9-10' ceilings  if you can afford it; so much nicer when 8' boards don't clobber the ceiling.
-The half bath is a great idea, and saves you trucking back and forth to the house.
-If you can afford it, spray insulation is fabulous. Have it in my ceilings, wish I had it in the walls.
-I only used T-111 once, and when I die I will still be able to say I only used it once: it can resemble a pretzel and is hard to nail to the studs, but the worst part is painting the damned stuff. Perhaps spraying might work (don't know), but brushing it entails going over it, and over it, etc., to get all the little holes painted. We pre-primed all 4 edges, and then primed the whole panel after installation. We final coated in gray, and then saw the zillions of white spots: holes that hadn't taken the final paint. Don't ask my wife about me telling her "there's a spot there, and another one there, ..."
-Can't say I have any experience with using the computer floors in a shop, but it sounds wonderful. But realize that if you have therefore raised the floor above ground level, everything you bring in and everything you bring out has to deal with that difference in height.
-I like the idea of the French doors rather than an overhead door, but if you do, make them as tall as possible. I think that maybe Marc Spagnuolo/Wood Whisperer did something like that, and I vaguely remember that he (or whoever I'm thinking of) did the oversized header that someone else above advised, so that it could be converted to a garage door if need be someday.

Regards, Dick

 

[RKA]

Eric,
I saw this post on another forum that illustrates the benefit of insulating below the slab (if you go that route).  Thought this might be helpful.  The topic was whether or not to insulate the garage on new construction, however this testimonial was interesting. 

It's always more cost effective to do it during construction rather than after...

-insulate under the slab
-insulate the walls
-insulate the attic

When my father built his shop a few years back he put 1-2" of foam under the floor (can't remember if it's 1 or 2" now)... layed the pipe for in-floor heating, put several extra deep pockets of concrete for a hoist to mount to. 2x6 insulated walls, R50 insulated ceiling (with hours upon hours spent making foam pieces to extra-insulate the tops of walls where attic insulation can't go).

Heats a 36x40 shop with a construction heater in central Ontario. Never bothered to hook up a heater to the in-floor heating... maybe some day, but it's warm enough he's never felt the need. Having an insulated slab is SO NICE on the legs/feet after a day of working on cars.

 

[NYC Tiny Shop]

Great thead with many excellent suggestions. Eventhough your shop will be considerably smaller than Frank Howarth's, you might find some good ideas from his shop tour on youtube. Good luck.

 

[GreenGA]

I have no idea why this didn't post yesterday when I originally wrote it...

I would also consider compressed air drops around the perimeter of the room along with small diameter vacuum, combination 110/220 outlets every 3rd stud, (this is what I installed).

If you go with the crawl space, perhaps in-floor outlets, also electrical outlets high up on the wall (TV, DVD player (to watch all those woodworking videos), radio, etc...). How about Internet access; you may be far away from the router).

How about material movement/flow. It comes a door, then what?

How about a small, very well sound-insulated room to house your dust extractor and air compressor?

Someone else mentioned sunlight, windows, sky lights? Windows on south wall, but not north?

Intercom to the main house?

One thing would proffer is this, whatever you start out with will change over time, so plan for reconfiguration, perhaps more than a couple. Try to not lock yourself in.

 

[Jak147]

What a fantastic thread, my mind is racing with ideas as I'm sure yours must be too. So I will keeps this as short as I can without repeating what others have already said.
dead skins is bang on with the server room floor but I would implement it like this:
Build the shop to a garages specs (others have already mention header size etc) but also Insulate the floor slab with a minimum of 50mm celotex (or American equivalent) also fit a damp membrane. That way it could be used as a dwelling instead of a garage.  
Then create the crawl space by simply laying 5x2 onto the slab (no damp issues thanks to the membrane under the slab   ) By not using t & g boards future access to reroute services will be easier and extra joists could be added under any new heavy machinery as it arrive. Ceiling heights would have to suit, hopefully that wouldn't  be a problem.
Running in plumbing during the build will be much much easier than after, even if is not used straight away. Also adds to the value and possible future usage.
I would go skylights over windows every time. Harder for thieving gypsy's to see your goodies. Outta sight outta mind when it comes to those types!
As for heating tap 'rocket stove' into google. Just food for thought  [unsure]

Good luck with the new shop, you certainly won't be short of ideas
Jamie

 

[wow]

I built my shop over 20 years ago and I did a FEW things right.



First, I ran a separate 200 amp service to the shop. DO THIS!!!!!!

Second - I placed a 2-gang outlet box about every 10-12 feet all around the perimeter of the shop - I wish I would have put in more of them and had them closer together. I then did home runs of electrical wire from each outlet box back to the breaker panel with 10/3 romex. In this way every box can have either 2 separate 120 Volt double receptacles (four 'plug' spots) *OR* I can quickly pull the corresponding 120 Volt breakers and outlets and replace them with 240 Volt ones and have a 240Volt, 30 Amp receptacle at that location.

Third - I use standard 4-wire dryer receptacles in the wall, and all of my 240 Volt tools have molded 'dryer' style plugs on them. This has proven to be a great choice for me as there is no concern over bad connections at the plug. Also, the bits and pieces (receptacles, covers, cord sets, etc.) are readily available with multitudes of options.

Fourth - I buried a number of electrical, coax, and communication wires from the shop to the house. I put in 2 coax lines, 2 phone lines, some 'spare' small gauge wires, and one network cable (remember this was 20 years ago). A couple of summers back I rented a trencher and buried two 2" pvc conduit pipes between the shop and the house. I have since pulled in a couple of Cat 6 cables plus a couple more coax lines, and I have plenty of room for additions.

Fifth - I put in a floor drain. My shop is used for both woodworking and general repair on my trucks, tractors, forklift, etc. It is WONDERFUL to park a frozen-up vehicle in the shop at night, then come out in the morning to find it nice and warm with all the snow and ice GONE!!!

Sixth - When I built the shop I found a used furnace and installed it. Nothing fancy, but it made heat. Then several years ago I was having trouble with it and the local utility just happened to be offering incredible pricing on new A/C equipment with free installation and zero interest for 36 months. They wouldn't sell me a new furnace, but they WOULD sell me a new forced air A/C unit - which required them to put in a furnace along with it - so my shop is now heated AND air conditioned.

Edit: I forgot to mention that the furnace is a sealed combustion type, so no shop air (which might have sawdust or vapors in it) ever hits the combustion chamber. That was a BIG safety concern for me and sold me on the new system right away.

I'll keep reading this thread and add more if i think of anything...

 

[CarolinaNomad]

If the garage has a crawl space, then technically it is not a garage where you can park your car.  Therefore, it may be detrimental to the sell of the house in the future.  You may want to consult with a Realtor.

Insulating under the concrete slab is a great idea.  It will help improve the efficiency of heating and not add to much cost.

 

[Paul G]

If the garage has a crawl space, then technically it is not a garage where you can park your car. 

That all depends on the design and engineering, but it would sure kill the budget. If doing it that way I'd go whole hog and make it a full basement, in fact that's what I'm currently designing for my future shop/garage/giant wine cellar  [big grin]

 

[Jak147]

If the garage has a crawl space, then technically it is not a garage where you can park your car. 

That's why I'd put a garage slab in and then float a floor on top with just enough room for services. Should you leave the new owner can choose to pullout the floor and use as a garage

 

[cgmojoco]

I'm building an ~1800 sq ft structure on my property.
I'm in San Diego, CA.
Designed so that it can have 1300 sq ft of shop space with an office on top...and also so that it can be converted to habitable space (the top has kitchen/shower/etc) for renting as a 4 bedroom house.
Two stories.
Many regulations for maximum square footage allowed (on each floor!) by the city planning department.
1st floor shop, top floor office.  (or 4 bedroom house to be rented).

Here is my advice IN ORDER OF OPERATION:

TAKE YOUR TIME
Rushing into it you will miss a ton and it might cost you a ton.
However long you think its going to take...maybe multiply by 3 or more...and that is how long it probably will take...
Don't skimp on taking a LOT of time thinking through the design phase...maybe months...so you won't kick yourself as much later.  Don't get to complicated, focus on the basics first... (access/size/openings/location/configuration of load bearing walls and foundation etc).  Some things ARE set in stone---an architect can guide you better than thinking on your own...unless you have a lot of experience construction...my architect QUADRUPLED the value I'm getting out of the project over what my initial ideas were for 2 years ago.

BUILD TO CODE
Read through all of the city or county codes that are applicable to your property...often people are surprised by limits for building additional structures on a lot.  Someone mentioned setbacks already...there also might be maximum sq ft limitations etc.

Permit fees
Get a realistic understanding of PERMIT FEES from that same city/county entity (I'm paying ~$25k in permit fees alone!)---I thought I would only be paying $5k but things just pop up especially when any work needs to be done for waste line.

Design Fees
GET A CLEARER UNDERSTANDING of architect and construction costs.  (I'd be surprised if you could architect and structural engineer on paper what the city/county will require yourself....really surprised)...even if you are building a box with a door...the way you have to show this to the city...is beyond me and I tried for months...

Summarize
Now you have an ESTIMATE of cost.
You know BASICS of what you can and can't build and how.
Then your next step is to get a really basic drawing (assuming you are just building a BOX) from your architect for bidding (Don't waste your and your contractor/sub's time bidding if you don't even know what/if you can build and how yet!).

Once you have this basic drawing that meets code as far as you know...then get a rough bids and contact your utility company about upgrading your panel.

So far you should have spent VERY little money.

Now is the time to pull the trigger for cash outlays on this project.  You've got your bids from architect/structural engineer/subs.

If all still looks promising (DOUBLE CHECK ALL YOUR FIGURES  that were in the rough bid and then add 30% margin  and see if that still works...the margin is ther because things CAN go wrong and often do so can you afford to finish if something does?...you better or don't start yet or you could be in the hole)...Still want to move forward?

THEN you start dropping money..starting with the architect and structural engineer getting realy plans together for city submission---finalize a design idea---they do the real drawings and calcs etc.

Have your favorite bidding contractors stay in the loop at this point for advice on how any significant changes made to the plans might change cost on the bid.

Submit to city. (paying again here thousands most likely)

Wait a month or more.

Corrections back to architect/engineer from the city...wait another month maybe for them to fix and get past the city's watchful eyes.

Pay your permit fees (maybe some more thousands) and pick up your permit and approved plans (did I mention it costs a ton to print those plans?).

Get your final tight bids now on those plans---carefully sort through and make sure the analysis you are doing is comparing apples to apples between bids.

Good luck working with those inspectors on build it yourself!

Christopher

Christopher

 

[canadamike]

Hi Eric,

I really enjoyed your videos on the cabinet build and LR32 set up. You are very generous with your time.

I recently built an ICF home about 3 hrs north of Toronto. My shop is currently in the basement, but I will be building a separate structure this year. I have 3" of Nudura foam under the entire house, but I would now go to 4".

If you are planning on doing radiant heat (I did, it is very comfortable and has lots of other benefits), it is critical to understand and contruct a proper building envelope, for your area and soil conditions.

Here is a link that I found very helpful. There are lots of best practices for foundations, floors, walls etc - you'll find something that comes close to your situation.

http://www.buildingscience.com/doctypes/enclosures-that-work

If you would like to chat over the phone, send me a PM and I would be happy share my experiences with you.

Mike

 

[erock]

  Let me start off with a huge  THANK YOU  to all the FOG members who have taken the time to give their advice.

I'm pumped about getting it done and I'm currently setting it up.  It took me longer then I've expected to build it.

I worked  on it mainly on the weekends.  So it took me 6 months to get-r-done.

My brother-in-law Dave was a tremendous help.  He and I took a bunch of pictures during the building process.  I used the pics to make this video. 

SKIP TO THE 8:10 mark for the pictures and  to pass all the boring talking I'm doing. 



Here are some pics.....

[attachimg=1]

[attachimg=2]

[attachimg=3]

It's a 26' X 26' structure.  Made with 2x8 metal studs.  Metal trusses.  A ton of insulation.  I think I have a R rating of 50 in the attic space.  The walls have about a R 38.  A small electric heater heats the place up.  I have it on the low setting and it's been 68*.  A little to hot for my liking.    Eight,  8 foot florescent lights with 4 bulbs per fixture.  Very bright !   

Hope you crazy dudes have a Merry Christmas and a safe New Year !   

Be good to yourself,  get off the FOG and GO MAKE SOMETHING !      LOL !

Eric

  Edit to add pics.

 

[rmwarren]

[member=8352]erock[/member] - great job, now the fun really starts!

PS - we all saw right thru your plan... you built the shop so you would have an excuse to buy the Vecturo for all those cutouts...  [poke]

Hope you are not like me, just when I got my dream shop built and mostly fitted out we decided to move. Cramming 3 cars worth of stuff into a 10 by 12 shed has been a challenge.

Enjoy it!

RMW

 

[Kev]

Hey [member=8352]erock[/member] that's not a workshop, it's a work-shrine!! [wink] [big grin]

 

[Wooden Skye]

[member=8352]erock[/member]

Shop looks great, a lot of hard work went into it. Are you going to paint the walls?  How many amps you bring?  All 110 or any 220? 

Enjoy it man you deserve it.

 

[mike_aa]

[member=8352]erock[/member]

Hey Eric,

Really love your new Shop House!  All you need now is running water!  [big grin]

Looks like you've been busy since the video tricking things out with some new decorations and tool hanging space.  Nice!

Mike A.