HKC 55 EB review

[erock]

[member=1146]Brice Burrell[/member]    Thanks for the video dude.

A buddy emailed me about this thread and told me about the short comings of the HKC.    I told him about Toolnut carrying the Mafell line.  Seems like the way to go if you need to cut 2x lumber at a 45*.

I asked this question on the Festool Facebook page....but like this thread, they have not replied or acknowledged the 45* cut on the track.    I was thinking this saw could or would speed up the deck I am planning on building.  But I guess I'll stick with the old circular saw and miter saw.

Eric

 

[tjbnwi]

Brice, do you know if the TSC 55 is also a little shy of cutting 2x stuff at 45*.
Is suppose all the Festool 55 saws have the same capacity but I haven't tried that cut in so long (if ever, I'm not a framer) I just don't know...

I don't generally need that extra millimeter cut. For the occasions that I might, maybe someone will come up with an outboard (off the left side of the shoe) guide rail that will allow the saw to run directly on the stock. Hans?

The TS 55 will not cut cleanly threw 2x dimensional lumber. I tried it the other day when the HK issue was brought up.

It leaves the same nib as the HK.

Tom

 

[tjbnwi]

So if you walk into a lumber yard  in  Pittsburgh  and ask for a  2" x  6"  plank, they hand  you out  a  1 1/2" x 6"  plank?

Not on your life.          It'll be 1 1/2' x 5 1/2"

Here is a chart.

So  2"x lumber  is  1 1/2" actual  from that chart.

Now I'm wondering  what Arvid  is complaining about  when both  the HKC  and the mafell  will chop  that  @45 degrees.

But I'm guessing now you're gonna tell me that  "framing"  2"x  lumber  is 2"  actual.
Right?

Framing lumber in the US is nominal 2", in other words the actual finished dimension is 1-1/2" (assumes no swelling from moisture).

Tom

 

[Tom the Remodeler]

Like Brice, I've been using a KSS-400 the last few years for framing as well as trim work on my job sites. Awesome saw, in addition to framing I've trimmed out whole basements (base board, shoe, door and window casing), I've even used it to fit some crown moulding in a pinch.

Yes, the KSS-400 will cleanly cut through 2x lumber on a 45 bevel, whereas the HK(C)-55 will not cleanly cut 2x lumber on a 45. I've performed this cut in my shop as a test, but in the last two or three years that I've been using this saw I can't remember a single time that I've needed to perform this cut on a job site.

What I HAVE wished for was the ability to bevel past 45 degrees, something the Mafell saw will not do without modification, whereas the HK(C)-55 bevels to 50 degrees. This is REALLY handy when cutting tall 1x8 and 1x10 baseboards at outside corners, where the bevel setting is frequently near 46 degrees or more. With the KSS-400 I'd pop a shim under the track and hope for the best, I like that I can dial in the HK saws.

If you want/need to cut 2x lumber at a 45 degree bevel with no additional work then you should be looking at the KSS-400, KSS-60, or even the KSS-80 which will cut 2x lumber at a 60 degree bevel. Expect to pay at least $1k+ for any of these saws.

If you'll mostly be crosscutting 2x lumber at anything less than 45 degrees and have already invested in the FS track ecosystem, I think the HK saws are a no-brainer.

Regarding the "knuckle buster" issue, I consider most sidewinder saws "knuckle busters", including such classics as the Makita 5007s and all of the DeWalts. I learned on worm drive saws, so anything else seems a little weird, but I've learned to adapt. Having used the KSS saws for several years now, I've learned how to handle them in a way that is both comfortable and safe, and I'm sure a couple days on the HK saws would yield a similar result.

 

[Brice Burrell]

[member=1146]Brice Burrell[/member]    Thanks for the video dude.

A buddy emailed me about this thread and told me about the short comings of the HKC.    I told him about Toolnut carrying the Mafell line.  Seems like the way to go if you need to cut 2x lumber at a 45*.

I asked this question on the Festool Facebook page....but like this thread, they have not replied or acknowledged the 45* cut on the track.    I was thinking this saw could or would speed up the deck I am planning on building.  But I guess I'll stick with the old circular saw and miter saw.

Eric

Eric, As Tom already touched on, I wouldn't be so quick to write off the HK saws.  Most people rarely need to make 45 degree bevel cuts in 2x material.  The few times you'd need to you can use the HK saw off the rail or a miter saw.  The exception would be guys that frame hip/valley roofs on a regular basis. 

While I have no complaint with my Mafell saw I'm not super thrilled with the brand (here in N. America).  The pricing is exorbitant, we only get a one year warranty (3 years in Europe), no UL or CSA listing, limited availability of accessories and so on.  All of us here are already invested in Festool, rails, clamps and all that stuff.  You can throw an HK saw on the rails you use for your TS55.  If you want to do that with the KSS400, well you'll need to invest more money, a whole lot more.  For example.

KSS400 (without any kind of case) $948
Systainer 4 $85
a couple of F160 guide rails $309.20
guide rail connector $78.80
guide rail clamps $62

Total $1483

Of course you don't need all of this stuff, but you'll probably want it, and you can see how fast it gets out of hand...
     

 

[Mort]

For that price, I'll file off the nub.

 

[Michael Kellough]

Brice and Tom, thanks for your remarkably concise, brass tacks review/comparisons of the two similar saws. Very helpful!

 

[Arvid]

The clearance  between  the handle  and the guard on my  ts55  is 50mm.

Is the HKC 55 less that that?

The hk55 has 37-38mm between the handle and plundge release lever that sticks off the side of the blade housing. A pitiful amount of clearance

 

[rst]

Despite my not probably not really ever needing to cut a vertical 45% 2X4, I tried it last night...didn't need a chisel, just ran my razor knife over the nub...much ado about not much!  [smile]

 

[Arvid]

Despite my not probably not really ever needing to cut a vertical 45% 2X4, I tried it last night...didn't need a chisel, just ran my razor knife over the nub...much ado about not much!  [smile]

Finishing a cut with a razor knife or knocking off the lip with a chisel will get old fast.
I guess everybody here builds square porches and decks and hardly ever need to cut multiple beams at 45.
Basically it comes down to festool being a trim tool for guys with small hands and mafell geared more toward framers and timber framers.

 

[GhostFist]

Like two strokes of a block plane. We're talking framing here sheesh.

 

[tjbnwi]

Despite my not probably not really ever needing to cut a vertical 45% 2X4, I tried it last night...didn't need a chisel, just ran my razor knife over the nub...much ado about not much!  [smile]

Do that 60 times on a hip roof. Waste of time.

That said, I will be getting the HK, just don't know which one yet.

Tom

 

[rst]

Who cuts 60 angled rafters up on the roof?  It's not meant to replace a chopsaw.  If your up on the roof cutting angled rafters, the time your spending keeping your saw on line is certainly more than the quarter second trimming that nub.

 

[95hilux]

It is funny reading this especially about all the different timber sizes I still walk into the builders merchant and ask for 100x50 and unless it is an old guy they look at me funny  and tell me the only thing they have is 90x45. But the strange thing is when I try to buy some 50x50 I always ask for 2x2 and I am from NZ and we got rid of imperial back in 67.

But the best way to deal with the whole can it or can't do a beveled miter cut, is order trusses

 

[tjbnwi]

Who cuts 60 angled rafters up on the roof?  It's not meant to replace a chopsaw.  If your up on the roof cutting angled rafters, the time your spending keeping your saw on line is certainly more than the quarter second trimming that nub.

Anyone who cuts a roof. Each rafter can have up to 5 angle cuts. But thats not the issue, never said there was an issue with angled cuts.

Never cut a roof with less than 12 rafters (6 per side).

Beveled or compound cut---not angled

A simple hip roof will easily need 60 45º bevel cuts. Throw in a couple of valleys and let the fun begin.

Cut all the rafters on saw horses on the ground, then place them.

I don't use a chop/miter saw to cut a roof.

I don't think so...

Tom

 

[Arvid]

Who cuts 60 angled rafters up on the roof?  It's not meant to replace a chopsaw.  If your up on the roof cutting angled rafters, the time your spending keeping your saw on line is certainly more than the quarter second trimming that nub.

Anyone who cuts a roof. Each rafter can have up to 5 angle cuts. But thats not the issue, never said there was an issue with angled cuts.

Never cut a roof with less than 12 rafters (5 per side).

Beveled or compound cut---not angled

A simple hip roof will easily need 60 45º bevel cuts. Throw in a couple of valleys and let the fun begin.

Cut all the rafters on saw horses on the ground, then place them.

I don't use a chop/miter saw to cut a roof.

I don't think so...

Tom

What Tom said is accurate.
It's funny to hear guys chime in about cutting rafters who wouldn't know the first thing about cutting an entire house of rafters on a set of 16 foot long or longer saw horses. A simple small ranch house with a hip roof can easily have 60 jack rafters.

 

[Lbob131]

Brice, do you know if the TSC 55 is also a little shy of cutting 2x stuff at 45*.
Is suppose all the Festool 55 saws have the same capacity but I haven't tried that cut in so long (if ever, I'm not a framer) I just don't know...

I don't generally need that extra millimeter cut. For the occasions that I might, maybe someone will come up with an outboard (off the left side of the shoe) guide rail that will allow the saw to run directly on the stock. Hans?

The TS 55 will not cut cleanly threw 2x dimensional lumber. I tried it the other day when the HK issue was brought up.

It leaves the same nib as the HK.

Tom

Don't you mean  1 /1/2" actual?
Surely it will  cut through  1 1/2" @ 90 degrees.

Or do you mean  it won't cut through  1 1/2" @45 degrees?
All very  confusing this topic.

Mafell and festool are European.
So  surely it would cause less confusion  if  the sizes    referred to  are  "actual sizes?

 

[tjbnwi]

Brice, do you know if the TSC 55 is also a little shy of cutting 2x stuff at 45*.
Is suppose all the Festool 55 saws have the same capacity but I haven't tried that cut in so long (if ever, I'm not a framer) I just don't know...

I don't generally need that extra millimeter cut. For the occasions that I might, maybe someone will come up with an outboard (off the left side of the shoe) guide rail that will allow the saw to run directly on the stock. Hans?

The TS 55 will not cut cleanly threw 2x dimensional lumber. I tried it the other day when the HK issue was brought up.

It leaves the same nib as the HK.

Tom

Don't you mean  1 /1/2" actual?
Surely it will  cut through  1 1/2" @ 90 degrees.

Or do you mean  it won't cut through  1 1/2" @45 degrees?
All very  confusing this topic.

Mafell and festool are European.
So  surely it would cause less confusion  if  the sizes    referred to  are  "actual sizes?

We call out lumber by its nominal size. A 2x4 is ordered will come as 1.5" x 3.5" unless it is ordered rough sawn.

Yes, I was referring to the HK not cleanly cutting through a 2x at 45º. Sorry for the confusion on the type of cut I was referencing.

I have no clue how to call out lumber by it's actual size (I know the sizes, my brain can't verbalize them or type them [eek]). Way to old to relearn [big grin]

To make it more confusing, 2x10 and larger lumber will be normally 3/4" small on the width instead of 1/2" small, thickness remains the same.

Tom

 

[tjbnwi]

It was mentioned that cutting a 45º bevel was not a common practice. Far more the 60 bevels in this one roof. Around here field cut hip roofs are common.

View attachment 1

One rafter of many, yes the rafter is over 22' long. The LVL hips and valleys are 1.75" (x2) thick x 14" tall, longest one is just under 27'.

View attachment 2

Front of the house "painted".

View attachment 3

The roof survived this-less 3 broken rafter tails. Due to not being able to get close enough to the building, a 40 ton capacity crane would not lift one of the trees. It took a 100 ton capacity crane to get the last one off the roof.

View attachment 4View attachment 5View attachment 6

Tom

 

[Lbob131]

Brice, do you know if the TSC 55 is also a little shy of cutting 2x stuff at 45*.
Is suppose all the Festool 55 saws have the same capacity but I haven't tried that cut in so long (if ever, I'm not a framer) I just don't know...

I don't generally need that extra millimeter cut. For the occasions that I might, maybe someone will come up with an outboard (off the left side of the shoe) guide rail that will allow the saw to run directly on the stock. Hans?

The TS 55 will not cut cleanly threw 2x dimensional lumber. I tried it the other day when the HK issue was brought up.

It leaves the same nib as the HK.

Tom

Don't you mean  1 /1/2" actual?
Surely it will  cut through  1 1/2" @ 90 degrees.

Or do you mean  it won't cut through  1 1/2" @45 degrees?
All very  confusing this topic.

Mafell and festool are European.
So  surely it would cause less confusion  if  the sizes    referred to  are  "actual sizes?

We call out lumber by its nominal size. A 2x4 is ordered will come as 1.5" x 3.5" unless it is ordered rough sawn.

Yes, I was referring to the HK not cleanly cutting through a 2x at 45º. Sorry for the confusion on the type of cut I was referencing.

I have no clue how to call out lumber by it's actual size (I know the sizes, my brain can't verbalize them or type them [eek]). Way to old to relearn [big grin]

To make it more confusing, 2x10 and larger lumber will be normally 3/4" small on the width instead of 1/2" small, thickness remains the same.

Tom

None the wiser.
My TS55  can cut through  38mm  on the rail @45 degrees. Which is the  exact  same  as the KSS 400.