How would you make this cut?

[Dane]

I have a cabinet design that uses a full sheet of walnut veneered plywood for the drawer fronts and the frames.  The idea is that the drawer fronts will be cut directly out of the sheet as they will sit on the cabinets then the resulting sheet with cut outs in it will be attached to the boxes to act as the face frames.  The idea is that the grain pattern remains intact and the drawer fronts look as though they just pop out from a continuous surface. 

So, I have a few ideas as to how to make the cutouts, but I would like to hear others ideas.  Obviously the rail and ts75 will be used to make the longer cuts where it will fit, but my hang up is with the corners of the cuts and the short sides of the drawer fronts that will be shorter than the ts75 will be able to cut.

Thanks for the input.  I will post photos of the finished product once I work it out.

 

[nickao]

Can you post a link or PM me the plans to take a peek

Nickao

 

[Scott W.]

I have a cabinet design that uses a full sheet of walnut veneered plywood for the drawer fronts and the frames.  The idea is that the drawer fronts will be cut directly out of the sheet as they will sit on the cabinets then the resulting sheet with cut outs in it will be attached to the boxes to act as the face frames.  The idea is that the grain pattern remains intact and the drawer fronts look as though they just pop out from a continuous surface. 

So, I have a few ideas as to how to make the cutouts, but I would like to hear others ideas.  Obviously the rail and ts75 will be used to make the longer cuts where it will fit, but my hang up is with the corners of the cuts and the short sides of the drawer fronts that will be shorter than the ts75 will be able to cut.

Thanks for the input.  I will post photos of the finished product once I work it out.

I guess it depends on the dimensions of the drawer faces.

I have a 4.5 inch Porter-Cable trim saw that I have used in a similar situation.
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Scott W.

 

[mastercabman]

I have a cabinet design that uses a full sheet of walnut veneered plywood for the drawer fronts and the frames.  The idea is that the drawer fronts will be cut directly out of the sheet as they will sit on the cabinets then the resulting sheet with cut outs in it will be attached to the boxes to act as the face frames.  The idea is that the grain pattern remains intact and the drawer fronts look as though they just pop out from a continuous surface. 

So, I have a few ideas as to how to make the cutouts, but I would like to hear others ideas.  Obviously the rail and ts75 will be used to make the longer cuts where it will fit, but my hang up is with the corners of the cuts and the short sides of the drawer fronts that will be shorter than the ts75 will be able to cut.

Thanks for the input.  I will post photos of the finished product once I work it out.

are you trying to make a "inset"style cabinet?
are you planning to build the face frame with rail and stile?or just using the sheet with cut out for doors and drawers?
i think i know what you are trying to do,and i think that you may have better luck with a router with a small bit.
with the router,you can make the cut out with no stop,unlike using the ts 75 and then finish the corners with a jigsaw or a small hand saw.

 

[Steve Jones]

Scrap the router idea, any bit small enough will still leave a large gap between door/drawer fronts and frame.

Cut as much as possible with the TS75 (though you'd be slightly better off with the TS55 due to the smaller size blade)

the long cuts - take as close as you dare to the ends, I wouldn't bother with stops, you can just edge up to the end of each cut by sight.

Small cuts, even those drawer sides, I'd start with the TS55 anyway, line it up on the cut line with the center of the blade over the center of the cut line, then lower it to score the cut (you won't get all the way through, but you'll get a tidy cut in the surface)

You will then be able to finish all cuts with a jig saw, Festool has several zero set blades suitable. the long cuts just insert the blade (with saw off) move to the outside of the kerf slot (sanding the difference between kerfs will be easier on the outside edges) and continue to the corner.

To finish short cuts, place the jig saw toe-down onto the piece with the end of the blade in the slot left by the TS75 start at slow speed and gently tilt the saw to apply the blade to the bottom of the slot, move slowly forward while tilting more until you cut through, then continue to each corner.

The reason for scoring the short cuts with the TS is to give you a clean edge on those cuts. - It's a tricky job, but does a beautiful job wood with lots of character.  Even someone who knows nothing about woodworking will appreciate the job.

 

[sw1211]

I can't imagine having the fronts of anything just out of plywood.  When they're pulled out you'll see all the different layers of the plywood.  Are you sure you don't want to wrap them with some solid wood or edge banding?  Or am I missing something?

 

[nickao]

I can't imagine having the fronts of anything just out of plywood.  When they're pulled out you'll see all the different layers of the plywood.  Are you sure you don't want to wrap them with some solid wood or edge banding?  Or am I missing something?

Steve if you go with a high grade plywood the ends look good with a clear coat. Baltic birch became big here as a drawer material because of the way the ends are so tight. Remember, this is not construction ply.

Actually, on a good quality ply the ends look amazing under a clear finish and in some cases better than just the wood ends. If it bothers him there are many ways to cover it with hardwood that will not add on to the look of the face of the plywood. I would leave it. Since the plywood has to be an extremely good grade to keep everything flat in the same plane, I think the ends are the least of his worries. Everyone is looking with the drawers closed anyway. Except woodworkers of course.

Nickao

 

[Warrior]

Imo I think the blade kerf is to thick and the gaps between the drawers and frame will be to wide. Why not make the frame out of poplar and the drawer fronts out of mdf and then veneer them? then you could have a reasonable looking 1/16" reveal around the drawers.

Eiji

Or, If youre stuck with using plywood, then layout the frame pieces and drawer pieces and rip and cross cut with the TS75 then join the frame together with Dominos. With careful joining with the domino you will never see the joints. Seems a bit simpler than the extreem care needed to cut out each drawer front. Plus you can then have a nice and small reveal gap.

 

[nickao]

Imo I think the blade kerf is to thick and the gaps between the drawers and frame will be to wide. Why not make the frame out of poplar and the drawer fronts out of mdf and then veneer them? then you could have a reasonable looking 1/16" reveal around the drawers.

Eiji

Or, If youre stuck with using plywood, then layout the frame pieces and drawer pieces and rip and cross cut with the TS75 then join the frame together with Dominos. With careful joining with the domino you will never see the joints. Seems a bit simpler than the extreem care needed to cut out each drawer front. Plus you can then have a nice and small reveal gap.

I disagree. It is the entire look that counts. Even a 1/4" gap is not going to make a difference as long as the reveals are the same. It will still look like a full sheet where the grain is concerned. The eye expects to see a gap in the grain where a line is. The line in this case being the point where drawers etc are. I would leave light gaps(all evenly revealed) and not try to cut it so close. The over all effect from 3 feet away will be fantastic.

Don't scare him out of this, really, the gaps are not that important to where a 1/32" blade difference is going to matter at all.

I have seen this done before. As soon as I locate the plans and pictures I will post them. I was hoping he would post the plans or instructions he has for this project, but I will dig them out if I have too.

nickao

I want to stress keeping the ply from warping and keeping everything flat when all the doors and drawers are closed will be the biggest battle. Get the best ply money can buy or you will be sorely disappointed.

 

[Warrior]

I build my stuff to look fantastic from 6" away.

 

[nickao]

"I build my stuff to look fantastic from 6" away".

Come on that was not the point. From 6" away it will look good too. Even reveals are the key to working with wood. I have never not built something because I was afraid someone at 6" would notice something. I assure you, YOU as the builder is the only one that notices that kind of stuff.

I see nothing wrong with leaving gapped reveals as part of the design for his proposed project at all. Side by side, one is not going to look better or worse than the other, but the one with the even gaps will be a heck of a lot simpler to make.

I guess I am not as competent a woodworker as you, a lot of stuff at 6" can be seen on my work. I definitely would not advertise I am that good, even if I were, thats for sure.

Nickao

 

[Michael Kellough]

This is basically a whole bunch of pocket plunge cuts, better done with a 55 rather than a 75 saw, but if the kerf width and tear out are acceptable the Festool saw system is the cleanest way to go. Lay out your drawers on the panel and make sure your cut lines extend several inches beyond the corners

How short are the small drawers? You only need to plunge deep enough to fit a jigsaw blade though the stock to continue the cuts into the corners. If too short for the 75 blade use a cordless circular saw to get through to the other side. Most of them have small and thin enough blades to easily fit within the 75's kerf.

Use stops on the guide rail so you cut clean corners with the 75. First you need to calibrate the kerf length to the plunge depth. To do this first securely tape some paper to the saw housing (the part covering the blade) going right down to the wood surface. Then set stops on the guide rail fore and aft of the saw and with the saw parked against the rear stop make a plunge cut (into a scrap piece) and drive up to the forward stop. With the saw still plunged and running carefully back up to the rear stop to make sure it was fully plunged (to your predetermined optimum depth for the stock thickness and drawer face height). Being careful not to move the guide rail, remove the saw from the guide rail and draw lines dead square to the guide rail at the ends of the kerf. A square block of wood is handy for this. Then carefully put the saw back on the guide rail and use the square block to exactly continue those lines up the paper on the saw housing. Now you have marks that exactly corespond to the ends of the kerf at that plunge depth.

Align the guide rail with a cut line then slide the saw up to a forward stopping point (another cut line intersecting the first). When the forward kerf mark is exactly aligned with the stopping point put a stop block right up against the front of the saw base. The back the saw up till the rear kerf marks lines up with the stopping point and set another stop block there. Now you can pretty much make the cut risk free.

 

[nickao]

Michael until Dane responds with a plan or more info it will be hard to help him. Your ideas are great as always!

Nickao

 

[Dane]

Wow, thanks for all the responses.  I response to the request for plans, I don't have any drawn up.  I am just working out of the existing space- it is about 12 feet long and between two walls.  It is a pretty simple idea, just cut the fronts out of the ply and reassemble it on the carcases and drawers.  I will draw it out on graph paper, lay it out on the sheet(s) of ply and then I will build the boxes to match...I hadn't thought about the kerf being too wide, but I am inclined to think that if it is even it should be alright. 

I have seen this done before and in that case the edges of the drawer fronts got edgebanded.  In that situation the drawer fronts even had to have some taken off of them to accept the extra width of the banding.  But I seem to remember that guy doing it by laying the whole sheet on his Unisaw and lowering it onto the blade in the middle of the cut.  Seemed a bit nuts, but it worked.  It was also a much smaller piece. 

In reference to the quality of the ply and the warping concerns.  I will be using a walnut veneered Skyply from Roseburg.  What I have seen of it seems to be high quality.  Plus, the fronts will be screwed and glued to the drawer box, which should help.  The face piece, frames I guess, will either be Dominoed or pocket screwed to the carcases, so that should prevent that from warping.  I think that I will leave the edges exposed and put a clear finish on.  I actually really like the look of exposed edge ply, especially in a modern context.  Plus it will only be seen when the drawers are pulled out.  The Walnut veneered ply that I am using is all bookmatched and highly figured, so I am disinclined to go the route of traditional face framing as Eiji suggested, although that would be the easier approach.  I want to retain the look of the bookmatching across the width of the face.

Sounds like that TS for longer cuts and scoring the short side along with the jigsaw on the rail to finish the cuts would be the way to go.  I gave some thought to the router idea as well, but I wasn't sure it they made bits with that small of a diameter, seems like it would have to be about 3/32 to work, anyone know if they make bits that narrow?

 

[Warrior]

Nickao,
Maybe I should say I try to build my stuff to look fantastic from 6" away. But again, IMO 1/16" reveals look far superior to the reveal you will be able to attain with this method. It is still just MY opinion. And I would have to say that my proposed method of construction would be far simpler to achieve and have superior results.

Eiji

 

[Michael Kellough]

I gave some thought to the router idea as well, but I wasn't sure it they made bits with that small of a diameter, seems like it would have to be about 3/32 to work, anyone know if they make bits that narrow?

I think 1/8" is the smallest and at that diameter they aren't long enough to get through the ply if it is nominal 3/4" thickness.

 

[nickao]

Nickao,
Maybe I should say I try to build my stuff to look fantastic from 6" away. But again, IMO 1/16" reveals look far superior to the reveal you will be able to attain with this method. It is still just MY opinion. And I would have to say that my proposed method of construction would be far simpler to achieve and have superior results.

Eiji

Well I have not proposed any way to accomplish the cuts, I am sure your method your would work great. I was trying to make the point that if certain tolerances aren't met, not to scrap the project and not try it. And that a gap or reveal does not have to be the end of the project if a small cutting mistake is. A reveal can save the project while not diminishing the look of one sheet on the face. Really tight tolerances would look awesome, I give you that.

Nickao

 

[nickao]

I found a price of 116.80 for 3/4" Walnut. I did not see the grades listed for each side of the ply for that price.

Expensive Plywood!

Nickao

 

[Dane]

Yeah, it is expensive.  A lot of that cost is the formaldehyde free binders.  I am a green-builder, so I do tend to pay a premium for some products due to a low VOC content.  My other choice for this was Plyboo, that stuff starts at 205.00 a sheet and goes up from there.  Talk about expensive.  But on the whole, not a huge part of the overall cost of a custom kitchen.

 

[nickao]

Yes, you are right, overall thats a lot of area you can cover with even 205.00.  Still, its something I would not want to mis cut thats for sure!

Nick