idea for a kitchen cabinet job, well sort of...

[Redfox]

Hi all,
I'm remodeling our kitchen for the moment. It's been quite some time, as we traveled in between, but now the tubing for the gas's been done, and I am ready to install cabinets. Generally speaking, I want a line of 5 cabinets with the built in cooker, built in oven and in the other end of the kitchen top, the sink in level with the kitchen top (table?) (Blanco Zerox500IF).
Cabinets are white and tabletop is 40mm Zebrano, 302 cm long, leaving 3-4mm in each end for a acrylic gasket. What would be the minimum width I should have between each edge (left and right), and the sink/built in gas cooker? As for now I have apprx. 8cm. Is that too little, so the zebrano may break?  I have read many variating minimum lenghts. Ends of kitchentable will be supported from below. I don't have much more room than that, as I have to wrestle with 5 vertical tubes along the wall.

Second, opposite side of kitchen I want to make a kind of my own cabinet, also out of zebrano. It will end up being the same height as the other side of the kitchen with it's cabinets, which gives a working height of 90-92cm.
I want something like a rectangular box, 128 cm. long, 88cm. high (plus steel legs beneath), and install two 60cm wide, 70cm high cabinets inside that box, more like a frame actually, consisting of 4 sides 40mm thick. No fingerjoints, but a 45degree cut and joint, in each corner.
So: Can this hold? I think there have to be some sort of routed glue surface, or inserted plywood thing, or dominos? (don't have that machine, though).
I can easily make the cuts with my ts, but is there for example a suited router bit for this type of joint?
Any good sugestions to this cabinet idea?
Alternatively, I thought of making some sort of sliding glass dors (white) and a more ordinary shelf inside, but I don't seem to be able to reach such goods here in Copenhagen (not yet anyway)
Since I am new to doing this sort of thing, and I want to look into woodworking, I hope you have some comments or ideas  [scared]

Cheers,
Jacques  [smile]

 

[jmbfestool]

First question! I would like to help! BUT I dont understand the first question!  First one You got a work top 302 cm long? Very  short work top lol! Can you draw what your on about?!?!?!?

I think its just me being silly!

Second question! I would just use your TS to cut it and if you had the Domino use the domino but you dont so I would just screw it from the side! As you will not see the screws once they are in the box any way. Counter sink pilot hole and screw to hold while glue goes off! I dont see the need to go and spend money on cutters or any thing really.

JMB

 

[Deansocial]

yes jmb you are being silly. 302 cm  ie 3.02m

 

[Redfox]

Hi and thanks.
Well, the kitchen table (let's call it that) is 3 meters and 2 centimeters long, 4 centimeters thick and 62,5 centimeters wide (or deep).
I have space for 5 cabinets below, and a little slack in each end.
The question is:
As I will be having the sink in one end, and the cooking top (gas) in the other end, and there's a wall in each end, I need to know the minimum safe distance for the zebrano wood not to dry out and crak or break, neither when cutting it, nor ½ a year after installation.
So as it is now, I'll do something around 12,5 centimeters from each wall to the relecant cutting.
Therefore: Is that enough?

Secondly, I would like to described "box" to be a little elegant (both visiual and how it's made. Therefore the assembly question.

I will be posting pictures later when I get the wood from the deliverer.

Cheers,
Jacques.

 

[jmbfestool]

yes jmb you are being silly. 302 cm  ie 3.02m

OH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am being silly!  [embarassed] Why did I think it was only 302mm    I even wrote 302 cm but I had it in my head 302mm man do I feel stupid!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!    Its because I never use cm  I work in mm.

JMB

 

[jmbfestool]

This is the unit with units inside! Boxes heehee

Lines showing mitres
[attachimg=1]

Your kitchen like this?!  I would try and give each end atleast 25mm I think no less.  Also you said Gas cooker.  Have you used a Induction hob? Man I got one and my parents have and they are amazing my parents have had theirs for a very long time since they came in the UK and they are so much better than gas!  They are loads faster than gas and more efficient and saver.  I did a test of boiling water in a pan it took just over 2 min on the induction the same amount of water on the gas took 9 mins and then it wasnt boiling like made yet.
[attachimg=2]

JMB

JMB

 

[Redfox]

Hi JMB,
Very nice program and drawings, I must say. Don't know how to do that, I'm afraid  [embarassed]

The upper one is a little like it. Only there will be no space available between the two cabinets and the "frame" of wood.

The lower is about it. I had to go with 4 600 mm elements, and one 400mm element, to get around the silly tubes, of which I have a lot.
The gas and sink is opposite, and the sink is a normal one, without the double function, and completely square gandmade one (nice).
Btw, I much prefer making good food on gas. I tried induction, and it's kind of problematic to me with the beeping and the underside of the pots and pans. Anyway it looks cleaner, and certainly is too  [smile], than gas. We have a new type of gas here in Denamrk, which is evinromentally very friendly, very cheap, and doesn't make yout pots black. It burns much cleaner and more silent.

From your drawing I can see, that there's no too much space for not breaking the long piece of wood in the ends (not cutting, but from heat etc. This is exactly why I am asking for the minimum safe distance  [smile]

I'll post pich when I get the wood next week, as it's on it's way from Gods know where.

Cheers,
jacques.

 

[Redfox]

Ups, forgot to ask what is the best blade for cutting very narrow round cuts (for tubing) in the melamine cabinets floor. I've got the PS300. No chipping wanted...
I can look it up in the catalogue, but maybe you guys have a better sugestion from experience.

Cheers,
jacques.

 

[Rob-GB]

It is usually recommended that you have 30 to 40cm either side of the cooker top to put down hot pans when designing kitchens. This would also be a more stable amount of zebrano to have either side of the sink/cooker cut outs. Seal the cut outs to prevent water ingress before installing them.

I pre drill cut outs for pipes/tubes then cut slots with the Trion and new splinter guard with an up cut blade to minimise splintering or chipping melamine.

Rob.

 

[Redfox]

Thanks Rob, so done.
I don't have that amount of space for the sink and so on. Bit I decided to have one cabinet a little less wide, so give a little strength to the wood in each end. No chipping, but melamine is not that good quality.
Still waiting (impaitiently) for the wood.

Cheers,
Jacques.

 

[Rob-GB]

Thanks Rob, so done.
I don't have that amount of space for the sink and so on. Bit I decided to have one cabinet a little less wide, so give a little strength to the wood in each end. No chipping, but melamine is not that good quality.
Still waiting (impaitiently) for the wood.
Cheers,
Jacques.

Don't you just hate that! When you are all eager to get a project done. I like the idea of Zebrano worktops, I have only ever had the chance to turn some.

Rob.

 

[Redfox]

Hi Rob,
Well the waiting is finally over, as the wood arrived this afternoon. two friends took them in through the kitchen window, and we placed them on cut off's both on the floor and inbetween, to acclimatise for the next two three days, while they are still vacuumpacked. I monitir the room temp to be 19-20 C, and constant, so they should vent and keep the shape.
The pics I add show them as they are in plastic, and does not show them in their full splendor. When I unpack them and begin to oil them and cut them, I'll post a few pics more, along the work.
When I oil them I think of using natural oil (it's called), and slowly fill them up. But if anyone's got a better oil to use, I'm open for suggestions. Natural oil is supposed to enhance the contrast in them, as I understood it.
As zebrano is really hard, I hope the 48 tooth blade on my TS55 is up to the job. Speed? Maybe the 28tooth wood be better (but I sometimes get a little splintering from this one, never from the 48)?? As zebrano is the most expensive wood I have ever worked with, I don't want to make mistakes.
One word: beautifull!  -  Nah, two words: Very beautifull! Hmm... can hardly wait... [big grin]

Cheers,
jacques.

 

[jmbfestool]

How much does one length cost where you live?!

What wide is yours?

I have found some on the internet not to badly priced but they are 600mm wide.  I don't know why they sell worktops 600 wide pointless in my opinion I think minimum should be 610mm but 620mm I always try and go for any way found this site which is 650 wide  http://www.worktops.uk.com/buy/Da_Vinci/Zebrano_worktop_38mm_to_41mm_stave_width  umm I dont think I want to pay that price for when I build my kitchen soon as I need 4 lengths abit to steep!

JMB

 

[Redfox]

Hi JMB,
Well, it's kind of quite expensive here. I bought two, and they are 3650mm long, 625mm wide (or deep) and 40mm thick. They cost between 425 GBP per meter, up to 765 GBP per meter, in 40mm thickness and 620-625mm wide (1 meter long). I would say that your price is a steal in comparison. This is sanded and preoiled, but once you unpack them, they need a lot of oil all over, several times as usual, and after making them ready, more oil again on edges as usual too. Better hold my tongue straight then when cutting them  [crying].
Saturday or Sunday, I'll unpack them and begin.

Sometimes it is possible to find some cheaper from rests, or b-side quality, transport damaged ones or alike, and I have a carpenter friend (far away though), who bought 4 times 3,5meter long, 40 mm thick and 62cm wide akacia pieces in a-quality for around 90 GBP per piece. It had some minor damages from a truck, but he was able to completely repair them to perfect again. Very beautifull indeed, and a very wellcome alternative to all that concrete, stone, steel and laminate that is modern here now. In my humble view, they are too sterile. I love a beautifull piece of wood.

I did some kitchens with dark brown/red wood, like oiled cherry, Nyatoh etc, and they look elegant, and relaxed. This kitchen will be screaming white, with white glass on the wall between lower and upper cuppoards, so the zebrano is a wellcome thing to add a special touch, not too many use them anyway, and they look so beautiful and wild. A masterpiece from nature, so go, look, touch and grab those zebrano lengths you saw, you'll thank yourself for it later. I know I will. [big grin]

btw. zebrano is getting rarer here because of price, and  they are not all acknowleged "green". Mine is and I like that.

Cheers,
Jacques.

 

[spikfot]

Zebrano is "considered a threatened species in it's native habitat". 

 

[Redfox]

Auch!. Maybe I'm a victim of a marketing guy, who claims some false crap for the sake of his income... I don't know, but I do take care when and if I can.
I chose many years ago to not eat animals any more for example. I take the car as little as possible for instance. I give what I can to preserve the nature and life in various forms too. Nuff' said.

Cheers,
Jacques.

 

[Redfox]

This pieces should come from a non threathened platage.
Anyway I unpacked one and sanded it, cleaned it up, dried, and sanded the natural oil in (liloil and canubawax) After rubbing, it looks like this:
Tomorrow morning I'll repeat this twice a day for a few days, then gradually down to once per week, then once per month, and then change oil to include resin (don't know the English word for it).
Then once every quater as usual.
Reason I'm writing here is that I am an absolute beginner in woodworking etc, and this is my first Zebrano, and I am very excited abouted the looks so far  [big grin]

Cheers,
Jacques.

 

[Rob-GB]

Lovely looking timber isn't it, Jacques. Thanks for the update. [smile]
I found a pic of the turning I made some while back....

The goblet on the left is Zebrano and the one on the right is Yew, both have darken a bit with age and were finished with shelac.
It is the only time I have worked with it.

Rob.

 

[Redfox]

Hi Rob,
Very nice indeed.
Now I am jsut waiting for the oil. I just sanded them wet in oil with wax in grain 600. Next is 800, then 1000 (tip from an old woodworker).
Can't even drive my old motorcycle now, as it have been snowing, melted and salt all over. [crying]

Cheers,
Jacques.

 

[jmbfestool]

Lovely looking timber isn't it, Jacques. Thanks for the update. [smile]
I found a pic of the turning I made some while back....

The goblet on the left is Zebrano and the one on the right is Yew, both have darken a bit with age and were finished with shelac.
It is the only time I have worked with it.

Rob.

Nice

I like the left one I don't like the one on the right the yew looks to smoothen plain. Needs wood grain scratching in it lol

Jmb