Is the Belt Sander worth it?
- Thread starter Tezzer
- Start date
ROb McGilp
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- Apr 5, 2007
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Llap Goch said:Eli
Damm. I was under the impression that any misdemeanour would do. A friend of mine recently emigrated to Australia. His application was fast-tracked when he was asked whether he had a criminal record and he confessed to owning the Bee Gee's Greatest Hits.
Right then,
I'd like to welcome the pommy baaarstool to God's own Earth and remind him there'll be noooo Patricias here, in deference to Socrates.
Note also, Friends of the Isle o' Mann long hair brigade will be regarded as Patricias. There will be no Gibb and take! ('cept those present at the festival, outside the fence!)
Tezzer, I have got to see this sander in action. I suppose you'll be looking like Arnie Schwarzanegger when I do see you. That's enough to frighten any man.
. However, I'll be baack.The woodworker previously known as Albert Daffies
Rob McGilp said:Tezzer, I have got to see this sander in action. I suppose you'll be looking like Arnie Schwarzanegger when I do see you. That's enough to frighten any man.
Im going to buy a single 7kg weight and have a work out just with my left arm/shoulder after every sesion with the 105 just to counter ballance the increase of muscle growth.
You need to see this top to believe it ;D
When this thread first came up, I was one of the first to voice my dissatisfaction with belt sanders. I have since been following the discussion. I was a little disappointed in one respondant's remark that those of us who voiced our dissatisfaction were some how predjudiced. so much for that. i have seen that some others have had the same complaints as i with belt sanders.
1 Gouging seems to be the most common complaint. Mine too. i do not find many ocassions to use a BS and so am not practiced in the feel for propoer control. result: I often relegate a nice piece of wood to a smaller project
2 Tracking problems. Me too. It sometimes takes several minutes, maybe only seconds, but when shortage of time in the WW shop, a minute can sometimes seem like hours when such a problem comes to the front.
3 It takes a lot of time to change grits (belts). I did not see this mentioned specifically, altho i read in the probability in relation to the subject. A real PITA once i discovered how easy it is to go from one grit to another with my RO 150.
4 Sanding frame: This is really the part i am writing about here. I have tried making frames for my own BS (which, BTW, has long since burned up and found its way to the local landfill never to be missed>>> atleast til now) with very little success. Now that i have been enlightened to the fact that somebody has come out with just such a marketable piece of much needed equipment, i am further enticed to know how successful others have been with its use. I have a question as to the possibilty of using the Festool BS with frame for sanding veneer to the very thin thicknesses needed. Is that possible? can the veneer be sanded to a uniform thickness on a wider sheet before application? I have been planing down with my DW thickness planer and leaving a little thick and then scraping & sanding down after glueup.
5 I lied. I am getting back to the remark about pedjudice. I would have preferred to some term such as lack of experience as opposed to predjudice. however, i feel i have been enlightened to the possibilities for which i thank all, including the anti pedjudice resondant. The Festool BS with frame looks like a winner, atleast for my shop.
Tinker
1 Gouging seems to be the most common complaint. Mine too. i do not find many ocassions to use a BS and so am not practiced in the feel for propoer control. result: I often relegate a nice piece of wood to a smaller project
2 Tracking problems. Me too. It sometimes takes several minutes, maybe only seconds, but when shortage of time in the WW shop, a minute can sometimes seem like hours when such a problem comes to the front.
3 It takes a lot of time to change grits (belts). I did not see this mentioned specifically, altho i read in the probability in relation to the subject. A real PITA once i discovered how easy it is to go from one grit to another with my RO 150.
4 Sanding frame: This is really the part i am writing about here. I have tried making frames for my own BS (which, BTW, has long since burned up and found its way to the local landfill never to be missed>>> atleast til now) with very little success. Now that i have been enlightened to the fact that somebody has come out with just such a marketable piece of much needed equipment, i am further enticed to know how successful others have been with its use. I have a question as to the possibilty of using the Festool BS with frame for sanding veneer to the very thin thicknesses needed. Is that possible? can the veneer be sanded to a uniform thickness on a wider sheet before application? I have been planing down with my DW thickness planer and leaving a little thick and then scraping & sanding down after glueup.
5 I lied. I am getting back to the remark about pedjudice. I would have preferred to some term such as lack of experience as opposed to predjudice. however, i feel i have been enlightened to the possibilities for which i thank all, including the anti pedjudice resondant. The Festool BS with frame looks like a winner, atleast for my shop.
Tinker
Tink 
Now ive had mine for a week and a half, this is what i reckon.
3 minor annoyances.
1- the vac outlet is on the left hand side and it gets in the way of a right hander. But when sanding a top and holding the BS with the right hand, you hold the cord/hose in the left ??? So im assuming its ment to be there, so its good for that purpose.
2- its LOUD and screams like a banchee, but earmuffs fix that.
3- No plug in cord. There might be a legal reason for that im not sure.
Phew, now the bad points are out of the way.... the good points ;D
Sanding veneered board. Brilliant. With the sanding frame attached its impossible to sand through even with a 60# belt. Sand your veneered top and lose concentration and start talking to someone with it stationary and still running even for 5 minutes and it wont sand through. Its child proof.
The weight was a concern for me, but now its a major bonus. At over 15 pound and with 1400watts, it realy is a rapid remover, but at the same time, engage the frame and you can dial in from 0.01mm increments upwards in sanding depth so easy, so controlling the amount you remove is again child proof.
Soft slow start is heaven ;D No more chance of taking off and ruining your work (or crashing off the bench if the switch is engaged)
The "perfect" curled finger grip/pull at the end of the handle makes it a joy to hold when sanding tops. Its a machine to use one handed because its so heavy and well ballanced it dose the work for you.
The small platten is dead flat. With the sanding frame engaged so no material could be sanded, i placed it cross grain on some pre-veneered board with an 80# then lowered the frame and left it for 30 seconds. The result was a near "perfect" sanded patch exactly the same size as the platern. This is the key to the machine. I just dose what a belt sander should do. Awesome.
The quality of the sanding frame is as usual second to none. It engages and disengages is seconds even when you are using it, and moves up and down with ridiculous ease with the turn of a tiny lovley lime green dial ;D The size of the frame is big, 390 x 235mm and has hundreds of thousands of tiny bristles attached to nylon inserts and simply glides over what is being sanded
By far the easiest belt changing i have come across. Even someone with arthritis could manage it in seconds its so easy and smooth.
And piece to resistance - When you have finished using it, you simply turn it upside down (i leave the feet on all the time as they dont get in the road) and plonk in on a bench as a cracker little linisher "complete" with an up-side down sanding frame for guaranteed flatness of what your sanding. And taking it off (frame) if needed takes 10 seconds.
What a wonderfull power tool this is. The Domino still rules in my workshop because of what it dose for speed of construction, but this has to be the new King of the Power tools. I just love it ;D Do what ever you can to get one. You wont be disapointed
Now ive had mine for a week and a half, this is what i reckon.3 minor annoyances.
1- the vac outlet is on the left hand side and it gets in the way of a right hander. But when sanding a top and holding the BS with the right hand, you hold the cord/hose in the left ??? So im assuming its ment to be there, so its good for that purpose.
2- its LOUD and screams like a banchee, but earmuffs fix that.
3- No plug in cord. There might be a legal reason for that im not sure.
Phew, now the bad points are out of the way.... the good points ;D
Sanding veneered board. Brilliant. With the sanding frame attached its impossible to sand through even with a 60# belt. Sand your veneered top and lose concentration and start talking to someone with it stationary and still running even for 5 minutes and it wont sand through. Its child proof.
The weight was a concern for me, but now its a major bonus. At over 15 pound and with 1400watts, it realy is a rapid remover, but at the same time, engage the frame and you can dial in from 0.01mm increments upwards in sanding depth so easy, so controlling the amount you remove is again child proof.
Soft slow start is heaven ;D No more chance of taking off and ruining your work (or crashing off the bench if the switch is engaged)
The "perfect" curled finger grip/pull at the end of the handle makes it a joy to hold when sanding tops. Its a machine to use one handed because its so heavy and well ballanced it dose the work for you.
The small platten is dead flat. With the sanding frame engaged so no material could be sanded, i placed it cross grain on some pre-veneered board with an 80# then lowered the frame and left it for 30 seconds. The result was a near "perfect" sanded patch exactly the same size as the platern. This is the key to the machine. I just dose what a belt sander should do. Awesome.
The quality of the sanding frame is as usual second to none. It engages and disengages is seconds even when you are using it, and moves up and down with ridiculous ease with the turn of a tiny lovley lime green dial ;D The size of the frame is big, 390 x 235mm and has hundreds of thousands of tiny bristles attached to nylon inserts and simply glides over what is being sanded
By far the easiest belt changing i have come across. Even someone with arthritis could manage it in seconds its so easy and smooth.
And piece to resistance - When you have finished using it, you simply turn it upside down (i leave the feet on all the time as they dont get in the road) and plonk in on a bench as a cracker little linisher "complete" with an up-side down sanding frame for guaranteed flatness of what your sanding. And taking it off (frame) if needed takes 10 seconds.
What a wonderfull power tool this is. The Domino still rules in my workshop because of what it dose for speed of construction, but this has to be the new King of the Power tools. I just love it ;D Do what ever you can to get one. You wont be disapointed
Thanks Tezzer, a great report. I have been all jazzed up to get the Domino for a few months. The Kapex was next on the top of the S-Slope. now you've got me thinkin' again. Used to be a banana peel was thought to be a slippery item to avoid stepping on. Who ever made up that phrase knew nothing about Festool.
I have been thinking about one of the stationary thickness belt sanders for getting flat surfaces down such as veneers and table tops but they are limited to the width of the machine or even the thickness of whatever being fed into. I am also somewhat limited in how much i am willing to lift to feed thru such machines. One of the resons I like the Festool system is the ability to move the tool to the material. A 15# belt sander is still much easier to tote to a 50# table top or 25# piece of lumber than to tote and feed that material into a thickness sander. All machines make noise. I've been running all sorts of equipment for so many years as i stupidly wore no hearing protection, i can hear cikadas year round. One more screeeeeming toy in the shop won't make that much difference (I now have ear muffs hanging in every corner and bench in my shop>>> now that the horse has gotten out)
Thanks again
Tinker
I have been thinking about one of the stationary thickness belt sanders for getting flat surfaces down such as veneers and table tops but they are limited to the width of the machine or even the thickness of whatever being fed into. I am also somewhat limited in how much i am willing to lift to feed thru such machines. One of the resons I like the Festool system is the ability to move the tool to the material. A 15# belt sander is still much easier to tote to a 50# table top or 25# piece of lumber than to tote and feed that material into a thickness sander. All machines make noise. I've been running all sorts of equipment for so many years as i stupidly wore no hearing protection, i can hear cikadas year round. One more screeeeeming toy in the shop won't make that much difference (I now have ear muffs hanging in every corner and bench in my shop>>> now that the horse has gotten out)
Thanks again
Tinker
Michael Kellough
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Tinker said:
Sorry for the offence Tinker. I admit it, I'm anti-prejudice, which is somehow different than being prejudiced against prejudice.
Prejudice still seems the appropriate term to apply to one who speaks out against a tool or technique he has never used unless the tool/method defies common sense. It seems to me less offencive than ignorance but I'm still sorry I didn't take the time to spell it out in how ever many words it would take to say the same thing without using a potentially loaded term.A belt sander without a frame is not the same as a BS with a frame, but you wouldn't know that 'till you tried one. The first router didn't include a base. Those who tried that and concluded that routers where dangerous and too hard to handle shouldn't have extended their opinion to routers with bases. Anyway, I'm glad you are open to the usefullness of a belt sander with frame.
It would be extremely difficult to make your own frame, even for a belt sander that is designed for a frame. If the frame isn't parallel to the platen it greatly reduces the contact area of the platen and wastes time in addition to wearing out one small area of the belt. I have three different belt sanders with frames Elu, Bosch and AEG (Festool). The Elu and Bosch have a relatively crude adjustment that affects both tilt and yaw simultaneously that is very difficult to get right and slips too easily. The AEG is much better to adjust and stays in adjustment. It also fits the sander very securely so is a little more difficult to remove than the others but I never have to worry that the adjustment has changed in the process.
Belts do take longer to install than disks and take even longer with a frame. Belts also last much longer than disks. The tracking on the AEG is quick and easy to adjust and only needs to be done when a new belt is installed or an old belt is reversed if the sanding pattern is appropriately varied. On a non-frame BS simply tilting the sander to one side will cause the belt to move and make you think it needs readjustment but it is really even pressure on the platen that is needed. If you change the pressure the belt will have to be readjusted again. Since a properly adjusted frame keeps the sanding pressure even across the platen the belt only needs to be adjusted upon installation.
I'm not sure if would be practical to sand veneer prior to lamination unless it was very flat to start with. A convex pucker could easily (and quickly) be oversanded. Maybe a vacuum table could hold the veneer flat enough to sand but I doubt it if it was severely puckered since veneer is thin and porous. On the other hand, if the veneer came out of your planer in good shape it may be flat enough to sand with a BS in frame but why reduce the thickness at all? Seems like more thickness is better in veneer.
Michael Kellough
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Tezzer said:Tink
3 minor annoyances.
1- the vac outlet is on the left hand side and it gets in the way of a right hander. But when sanding a top and holding the BS with the right hand, you hold the cord/hose in the left ??? So im assuming its ment to be there, so its good for that purpose.
2- its LOUD and screams like a banchee, but earmuffs fix that.
3- No plug in cord. There might be a legal reason for that im not sure.
1 Hang the umbilical from a boom or rafter so you can turn the sander in any direction and location of the hose isn't much of a problem. I steer my AEG from the frame itself so there is no chance of compressing the bristles.
2 My AEG is loud too.
3 The basic design of this sander is about 20 years old. I give credit to Festool for recognising when a wheel is perfectly round and not messing with it too much. They probably figured that the sales figures wouldn't be large enough to retool the moulds to include the Plug-It connection.
Glad you like it and I hope your report generates more interst in this great tool. My AEG is very old and the Festool BS is NAINA.
Dan, I'm curious what you were you were trying to accomplish here. I'm imaging you skidding the belt sander along 2x4' in place on a wall in order to flatten? If so a power planer is better for this if you have one. Of course, now that I'm thinking about it, if you had hit that whirring blade of a power planer it's game over for that hand!
Brent
Brent,
I did use my HL850. But the studs weren't just proud, they were very uneven, cupped and twisted. I tried both and found that my Makita belt sander provided better control at spot-removing material. It took a while to get used to it, but it worked pretty well.
The accident didn't occur while removing material. It happened when I lost control concentration and didn't pay close enough attention to the belt to ensure that it stopped spinning after I released the trigger. The sander was completely off the stud and moving down to my side when it hit my finger. It was MY fault, not the sander's fault.
Note that I also tried using my RO150. For narrow boards, it's not the tool of choice. It tended to bounce off to the side of the board and shred the pad.
Regards,
Dan.
I did use my HL850. But the studs weren't just proud, they were very uneven, cupped and twisted. I tried both and found that my Makita belt sander provided better control at spot-removing material. It took a while to get used to it, but it worked pretty well.
The accident didn't occur while removing material. It happened when I lost control concentration and didn't pay close enough attention to the belt to ensure that it stopped spinning after I released the trigger. The sander was completely off the stud and moving down to my side when it hit my finger. It was MY fault, not the sander's fault.
Note that I also tried using my RO150. For narrow boards, it's not the tool of choice. It tended to bounce off to the side of the board and shred the pad.
Regards,
Dan.
Michael Kellough
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- Jan 23, 2007
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Eli said:
It does mean Not Available In North America.
As I mentioned, my AEG sander is very old. A few years ago I was glad to learn that Festool had bought the factory that made the AEG, had made some improvements, and was continuing production. I was looking forward to replacing my AEG with a new Festool version and am very disappointed that Festool doesn't think it's worthwhile to make it available here in NA. Hence my frustration with reading opinions that a belt sander isn't needed now that ROs are available.
I totally agree with all the complaints about basic belt sanders but it's a very different story when a good frame is added. I wish there was an easy way to make the distinction between an ordinary basic belt sander and a belt sander with a well designed frame. Any wordsmiths out there?
Michael Kellough said:
100% Agree. Not being a wordsmith i tend to go on and on to much trying to get a point made.
All i can say is, this sander with this extreamly high quality frame is the same as a portable upside down drumsander worth thousands of $$$$
45 - 50 minutes today (from out of the clamps to completly finished ready to polish) to flatten perfectly a 3000 x 1200mm top to 80# Then I started to use the 150/3 with a 80# - big mistake, the quality went backwards. So i re touched up with the beltsander/frame and then re-started with the 150/3 and a 100# - Ahhhh that was better... This is turning out to be my best ever top ;D
Michael Kellough said:
Seems to me the descriptive word "Belt Sander" will bring forth certain memories of good or bad experiences such as were intimated as "bad" by me in my first post on this subject before there had been any mention of "Belt Sander with Frame", a tool of which I, and maybe other respondors had no previous knowledge. Aren't the two items described and sorted by the words "Belt Sander" and "Belt Sander with Frame"? How much further can it be simplified, wordsmith or not?
Tinker
Michael Kellough
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Tinker said:
You're right,
and your reply is so well written and pithy that I'd agree with you even if I didn't.
