Is the Kapex 120 overkill for me?

[baseman]

Hi

New member here. I am currently remodelling my garage to a woodworking workshop. Mainly projects will be around furniture making (chairs, tables, small cabinets), but also making interior for the workshop itself.

I have decided to make a larger storage/mitresaw station along one of the longer walls of the shop that will host my new mitresaw. I have a mitre saw today which is of lower quality, and will be replaced.

I have been looking at the Kapex as a viable option to replace my current mitresaw, but some questions arises.

I am fairly new to woodworking and just starting out. Will I be able to use the full potential of the Kapex? I hate bying stuff that I will replace in 3 years , so I do not want to comprimize.

In your opinion, will the Kapex be overkill or not?

Thx for any feedback.

Baseman

 

[Kev]

[welcome]

Overkill is a relative term ...

I have a KAPEX with UG cart and extensions. Some would consider it "overkill" for a DIYer/hobbyist, but I like it. It's light weight and portability, speed to setup, relatively good DC, etc are all factors for me.

If I was setting up a permanent station I may not consider the KAPEX (though I'd keep the KAPEX for portable work). My go to at the moment for a SCMS station would be a Metabohttp://www.metabo.com.au/Product-catalogue-halfstationary-and-stationary-tools.24127+M548ebc45c72.0.html and I'd build the station out of 80/20 and Incra. Plus I;d go bonkers on DC with some downdraft high volume extraction to complement the saw's onboard DC.

My reasoning for this would be that I'd like the extra cut, I've got the KAPEX in reserve and I've also got a cordless SCMS "just in case" [wink]

 

[bobfog]

My concern with the Kapex for a hobbyist is that there are currently some concerns regarding its reliability. 

It is a phenomenal amount of money for something that doesn't make you money. If it then fails 3-5 years down the line out of warranty it will probably cost a huge amount of cash to repair and you could have ended up spending a boat load of cash on something that will leave you with a very bitter aftertaste.

Let's ignore the potential reliability issues for a moment, the thing with the Kapex is it's very expensive because it's very accurate with good cut capacities and is pretty lightweight and portable. Now if you don't need both of those things in the same saw, it's probably not worth spending that much money. Since it's going to be on a permanent sawing station and not regularly moved, I'd go for something heavier and more robust like the Metabo Kev recommended above, or the Bosch Glide is another excellent option:
https://www.boschtools.com/ca/en/boschtools-ocs/miter-saws-gcm12sd-33969-p/

 

[Stone Message]

Hi Baseman

The Kapex is a very capable saw and, in my view, the best mitre saw that there is. Anyone can master it in less than an hour and it will eliminate yet another place of failure for many woodworking newcomers - accurate cross cuts. My Kapex was in my first Festool shopping list of CT26, Domino 500, TS55 and Rotex 90. Those 5 "core" tools transformed my woodworking and have made life much easier and the woodwork so much more enjoyable.

Do get the US Supplemental Manual.

Peter

 

[Birdhunter]

There are a lot of posts that cite Kapex issues. My gut feel is that Kapex machines with issues are uncommon. Happy users don't often write posts.

I've had my Kapex for years. No issues, just perfect cuts. Its dust collection is excellent, but not perfect. The bigger and shorter hose helps. I gave away a really good miter saw when I bought the Kapex. I can use the Kapex in my shop. I had to use the old one outside.

The mobile base is nice. A vac fits under it neatly.

Keep the blade head down until the blade has stopped and kickbacks are reduced if not eliminated.

The supplemental manual should be read and understood before your first cut.

Adjust the lasers, if needed, per the supplemental manual. Find the Allen wrench somewhere in the packing material.

Use a straight edge to verify everything that's supposed to be lined up actually is (mine was and still is). If not (unlikely), call Kapex. If not satisfied, take Kapek back to dealer for replacement or refund.

The zero clearance aftermarket inserts are worth the money.

If something seems wrong, call Festool. They solve problems.

Wear safety glasses. Think through a cut before making a cut so you can continue to count to 10.

 

[Nestor]

Hi

New member here. I am currently remodelling my garage to a woodworking workshop. Mainly projects will be around furniture making (chairs, tables, small cabinets), but also making interior for the workshop itself.

I have decided to make a larger storage/mitresaw station along one of the longer walls of the shop that will host my new mitresaw. I have a mitre saw today which is of lower quality, and will be replaced.

I have been looking at the Kapex as a viable option to replace my current mitresaw, but some questions arises.

I am fairly new to woodworking and just starting out. Will I be able to use the full potential of the Kapex? I hate bying stuff that I will replace in 3 years , so I do not want to comprimize.

In your opinion, will the Kapex be overkill or not?

Thx for any feedback.

Baseman

The Kapex excels at finishing work inside a house due to it's dust collection capabilities, portability, and most of all, accuracy.
It's biggest downside is that it's still a ten inch saw and Festool doesn't offer a 12 inch version, so you need to consider cutting capacity.
If you're mainly using it to break down stock for use on a table saw, it might be overkill. In that case, I'd get a 12 inch Bosch glide instead.

 

[Mort]

Some guys will give me the stank eye for replying here (because I don't have a Kapex) but since you and I seem to be in the same boat I'll tell you why I'm not going to buy one.

The three selling points I see most often are portability, dust collection, and accuracy.

You already said it'll be in a miter saw station, so that's one down.

Dust collection is becoming more and more important to me, which is why I've been buying Festool stuff when cheaper tools will "work" just as good. However in a home shop dust can be controlled much easier than on site. You can add a Kapex dust boot to other saws, add a Fastcap dust hood, design your station so dust is funneled to a collector.

So, accuracy. I don't have a lot of experience with the different brands so I can only relay what I've heard from other contractors, but the offerings from DeWalt and Bosch are apparently no slouches in this regard. If you're doing molding all day, the Kapex might be worth the extra scratch but if not, choose wisely.

At the end of the day, it's twice as expensive as the next most-expensive saw (which is a 12"), and those saws aren't ones that you'll have to upgrade in the future.

 

[Holzhacker]

I love my Kapex and would highly recommend it as a tool for any contractor going from site to site. Part of the reason for paying the price is the lack of weight, portability and quick ease of set up. I have the full cart and wings set up.
For stationary use at home/garage no way would I recommend a Kapex. If you have a fat checkbook and the money doesn't matter then fine. If you have issues that mean you need as much good DC as possible then fine. Under 'normal' circumstances I would recommend buying one of the other SCMS and using the saved money for other tools.
Let me get on the soap box a bit here. I'm so sick and tired of people talking about accuracy as if its all about the tool or its the Kapex that does it, or other nonsense like that. Accuracy is about the skill level of the user. I have a POS Hitachi that when I used it all the time was just as accurate as any Kapex even thought that saw was a beat up POS. Its because I knew the saw and knew how to use it. The beauty and difference of the Kapex and tools like it, is 'ease and repeatability' of accuracy. Sure wish more people would make the experience clarification. Might make more people realize that woodworking isn't as easy as it looks on TV.
Ok sorry.
Buy the Metabo, Bosch or Makita and then buy an RO90 or 150/3 or an MFT

 

[DiscoStu]

I'm an amateur as well but I am considering the Kapex and for two main reasons.

1 - The dust collection. I e got pretty good dust extraction now but my CSMS is probably the worst for generating and not collecting dust.

2 - It's size. Because the Kapex slides on rails that are pointed outwards you don't need a much depth of work top. My workshop is a single garage and with all the other tools I have in there I really struggle for space. I would also consider the Bosch with the folding arms (easy glide?) then there is the new Metabo that I'll look at.

What I've found it that good quality tools make my life easier, they are accurate and can make some work a lot quicker. I don't get a lot of time in the workshop so when I am in there I want to make something rather than spending hours trying to make a mortise and tenon joint, I'll use a domino. My track saw means I get straight cuts accurately. Accuracy means you don't spend hours trying to bodge something and that time is valuable to me.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[baseman]

Thx all for the good answers. Great forum!
I have been eyyballing the  Bosch GCM12SD for a while, so I will have another look at that.
Anyone that can voucher for its accuracy?

 

[ear3]

It just got bummed to the top of the tool problem subforum, but just in case you haven't seen it, you might want to browse through this thread (if you have a few hrs to spare)
http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tool-problems/the-life-span/

 

[stvrowe]

I have had the Kapex for a little over 2 years.  I purchased it to install trim inside my house and the primary reason for this was dust collection for use inside living space.  It also had the benefit of the twin lasers.  I haven't found the Kapex to be more accurate than my 25 year old Dewalt (non-slider).  The table miter on the Kapex is a bit finicky to lock into place if you are near one of the preset detents.  The bevel miter fine adjust is the best I have seen on any saw.  The vertical handle is a bit awkward at first but once you get used to it is OK but not my favorite.  Overall, I like the saw and do not downplay the usefulness of dust collection even within the shop environment.  As much as I like it, I also believe this saw is overpriced when compared to the competition.  If I had no need to lug it up and down stairs and use it in occupied living space, I probably would not have purchased the Kapex.

 

[Acrobat]

Yes probably it is overkill for a diy home shop. For less money one can get other brands which are pretty good these days. Kev mentioned one or two. I have the Kapex and it was out of square, and base not flat and lasers off when I got it, and had to be sent in for adjustment. Its dust catching is better than others but still is not what one would ideally like or at least what I was led to expect, as you'll still need to clean behind it even with the larger hose and dedicated vac, so if thats an issue trial a few machines out if possible. With the $ you may save on getting another brand you could put towards another Festool tool or vac. I have never used the little extra capacity space for cutting tall crown mouldings, but have often needed a deeper and longer cut than the Kapex provides. A larger blade would definitely be an advantage. Another fall down I feel is trench cutting - it's rather limited on the Kapex.
Build your own mitresaw station for it, no need for the UG cart unless you need to have it portable. The UG wing/s are great (not meaning the short extensions for cuttingcrown), as they pull out for extra long measurement cuts, very handy.-but one could easily replicate something similar. So all in all, I would recommend spending your money on another mitresaw brand and put any savings to a vac or  extra blade/s or a sander etc.

 

[grbmds]

To me, it isn't about whether the Kapex is the right miter saw for you to buy but whether it should be one of the first tools you buy to start out in woodworking. There are other tools which, for me, would be a more productive purchase for you for moving forward in woodworking. For example, sticking with Festool, buying a TS55 plus MFT3 would be a great starting point. As far as I'm concerned, you can get crosscuts just as accurate with the MFT/TS55 as you can with the Kapex with more versatility. Plus, the  total price of these two is less than the Kapex alone (without a stand). I have been a woodworker for 30+ years and have owned 2 miter saws;one a very accurate Hitachi. Nothing wrong with them but, for me, unless you plan to do a lot of trim work, a miter saw really doesn't add nearly as much as the TS55/MFT combo would add in terms of capability. This is, of course, just my opinion, but I have found I have never missed my miter saw with these 2 tools.

 

[Holmz]

...
My gut feel is that Kapex machines with issues are uncommon.
...

All the other mitre saws combined do not show many problems.
It is possible that the Kapex issues are advertised more when there is a problem.

Whether one needs a mitre saw, is that same as whether one needs a router... Some cannot live without one, and others have no use for one.
Same with a plunge saw, band saw, jig saw...
The type of work largely determines which tools are needed.

I almost always need a tape measure, pencil, and a sander.

 

[Birdhunter]

"All the other mitre saws combined do not show many problems."

Just curious, but on what data did you base this conclusion?

 

[Holmz]

"All the other mitre saws combined do not show many problems."

Just curious, but on what data did you base this conclusion?

Being involved with science one should always use data.
However I just pulled it out of the backside... [eek]

I suppose on a FT forum we would only see FT issues, so it is biases both for and against.

So you make a good point.  Well done! Good catch! [smile]

 

[QuailRider43]

It was the Kapex's form factor that sold me.  Having a shallow back solved a big placement problem in my shop.  I considered the Bosch hinged slider as well, but the Kapex was smaller, lighter, and more refined.  If I was pressed for cash, however, the Kapex would be the first to be struck off the wish list.  It really is grossly overpriced these days.

 

[mkasdin]

Get the kapex down the road. The above posts spell it out. In the end it's only money, but if money was no factor then this post would be a moot point.

Personally I have a 12" Dewalt miter saw non slider. It was around $220 new at the big blue box house. I threw on a Diablo blade and it cuts fine. The miters are repeatable and the saw cuts straight. Before that i owned a hitachi for many years that I used to cut everything, aluminum, steel pipe etc. I finally wore it out and sold it for $60 on Craigslist.

Is the festool a better saw the the cheap Dewalt, Ridgid, hitachi? Of course, but upgrading is always an option. And there just too many other (fest)tools that are better than I own so I'm replacing those and adding more tools

 

[jaguar36]

I'll echo alot of the other posters, with suggesting skipping the Kapex.  The Kapex's biggest strength is its dust collection, which if you have a fixed setup with a hood doesn't matter. 

I had a Kapex for a short while and sold it in favor of a CT26 and a Rotex.  I'm much much happier with having spent my money on that instead of a Kapex. 

Lots of Festool products are leaps and bounds better than the competition for 50% more money.  With the trade-offs on the Kapex (10", ergonomics, kickback) its only marginally better and is at least 100% more money than the competition.