Is the TPC any good?

[tomktest]

Just a couple things to add here...

- Contacted Festool and set up a repair for the TID 18 since the TID/TPC set is sold out now from the dealer.  [sad]

- Got my centrotec chuck today but still waiting on the bit holder so I can't do anything with it yet.

- Look what I just figured out!!! I built a DeTool? Or a FestWalt?

View attachment 1

Since I have no bits yet I can't say for certain how this will work but it should! This will solve my problem of sharing drill bits between the DeWalt and the TPC. The chuck is smaller and lighter than the stock DeWalt chuck so I might just run it this way all the time.

There is a small diameter difference in the fast fix heads so the DeWalt hex chuck does not fit the TPC BUT I may at some point order another chuck from DeWalt and drill it out so it fits the TPC. Then I have the best of both worlds!

[thumbs up]

 

[elfick]

[member=76739]TomK_2[/member] I don't have a TID but I watched the video, what exactly is the problem you are experiencing?

 

[tomktest]

[member=76739]TomK_2[/member] I don't have a TID but I watched the video, what exactly is the problem you are experiencing?

It feels and sounds like one of the bearings is seized and is rotating inside of the plastic bearing retainer instead of allowing the shaft to spin freely within the bearing. Sounds like someone is dragging a metal table on a concrete floor. Like a chattering vibration or nails on a chalkboard.

EDIT: Actually it sounds fine until you let it run for about 30 to 45 seconds then it starts to chatter. Gets better/worse as you move the tool around.

 

[semenza]

- Look what I just figured out!!! I built a DeTool? Or a FestWalt?

View attachment 1

  Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhh! It hurtses my eyeses !  [scared]

          Seth

 

[tomktest]

Quick update...

Received my repaired TID 18 back and it sounds much better. They replaced the gear set and some "other" parts. I am appreciating the refinement of the TPC more and more although I haven't used it for anything other than testing a bunch of different drill bits. It would be nice if Festool would push a software update that would make the torque cut-out a bit less aggressive. It seems to me the drill has enough power in 3rd gear to do just a little more than it is willing to. The only negative I could find so far is that I think Festool should have used the gear ratios from the Fein ASCM 18 QM as it has a slower 3rd gear. Being that 3rd gear is so quick I'm not sure what I am even going to do with 4th.

I'm still struggling with drill bits. I love the stability of centrotec but the selection of bits is absolutely terrible - inexcusable even. I prefer having a universal bit such as Fisch offers so that it can be used in any of the 3 chucks. I'm going through the process of "centrotec-ing" a bunch of bits. I've done a set of twist drills and am working on some masonry and spades next. I really shouldn't have to do this.

Festool if you are listening we need to be able to purchase full sets of twist, brad point, auger spade, masonry, auger, and Forstner bits. Should be available in both imperial and metric, impact rated, in their own cases, and have universal hex shaft so they work in the TID 18, Centrotec, and offset chucks - ~$50 for each set (maybe more for Forstner). 

The centrotec chuck is very lightweight so I have continued to use it with my DeWalt - I did have to modify the DeWalt by shimming the "fastfix" socket with a 2.5mm spacer and then slightly grinding the hex shaft on the attachments.

 

[mino]

TLDR:

Unfortunately, the Centrotec bit holding concept was born as "the high end weird one" and seems to be bound to remain there. IOW the generally available *native* bit selection is destined to be limited. For the eternity.

----------------------
Oh the Almighty!
The knowledgeable  customer!

So, what is The Problem: The whole idea of Centrotec was created in the world of the "unknowables" who would arbitrarily put a "precise Centrotec" bit into the crappy 1/4" seats of the drills of the 90's. The drills which cannot handle ANY bit steady. Period.

At the time, it was /literally/ impossible to push through a concept that would be both compatible AND better. IF you made longer shaft interface AND more tight tolerances, your bits would no longer fit into 99% of the "junk" tools on the market then. You might as well make "your standard" which is -explicitly- incompatible /at least one way/ so as to avoid a confusion on the market. And this is what Festool did, see below.

The Centrotec concept:
- enforces a way tighter chuck tolerance
- requires/expects a tertiary "centering" point /beyond the Centrotec hex shaft itself/ leveraging the "precise-beyond 90's" cylindrical shaft to provide a mechanical "3rd point" on an axis beyond the shaft itself

These two aspects combined make any Centrotec shaft is expensive to manufacture - compared to any "standard 1/4" hex". Today, anyone can make it as the patents expired. Yet, only Metabo does and some - like Dewalt - copy the concept with (stupidly) different dimensions.

The thing is, Centrotec concept leverages BOTH the precision of the HEX insert in the shaft AND of the outer cylinder of the shaft itself to complement each other. This intrinsically means it cannot be made cheap. Yet this is the only way to get as-high-as precision at as-short-as shaft distance. BUT it is also no easy/ cheap feat to make such a shaft.

End result being, Centrotec is a niche. And bit selection is severely limited. This is the nature of the beast.

For specialty bits. E.g. the counter-sunks etc. etc., "the cost of going Centrotec" can be burried and these can be made at kinda competitive prices.

Though for general bits, there is exactly zero way Festool could (dream to) price-compete with the bulk of the market that lives in the cylindrical shaft world. Eventualy (round 2005 by my look) they gave up and accepted the "quick-change-Jacobs" path as the second best thing.

Yes. They tried hard in the 90s. But it did now work. The economies of scale just did not work - not outside the specialty bits.

 

[mino]

Add:

Yes, I sorely miss Festool making the content of the post above into (explanatory ?) marketing material.

LOTS of their sales material is still based on the 90's "All-in-on-Centrotec" concept. Yet their sales, marketing and catalog are LONG past that dream.

 

[Coen]

Perhaps that is what happens when the organization becomes bigger without enough internal communication.

When I worked at a Festool dealer we sold a lot of Festool battery drills, but very few Centrotec stuff.

I eventually made up my own Centrotec alternative. Instead of swapping chucks I swap machines.  [tongue]

 

[semenza]

Quick update...

Received my repaired TID 18 back and it sounds much better. They replaced the gear set and some "other" parts. I am appreciating the refinement of the TPC more and more although I haven't used it for anything other than testing a bunch of different drill bits. It would be nice if Festool would push a software update that would make the torque cut-out a bit less aggressive. It seems to me the drill has enough power in 3rd gear to do just a little more than it is willing to. The only negative I could find so far is that I think Festool should have used the gear ratios from the Fein ASCM 18 QM as it has a slower 3rd gear. Being that 3rd gear is so quick I'm not sure what I am even going to do with 4th.

I'm still struggling with drill bits. I love the stability of centrotec but the selection of bits is absolutely terrible - inexcusable even. I prefer having a universal bit such as Fisch offers so that it can be used in any of the 3 chucks. I'm going through the process of "centrotec-ing" a bunch of bits. I've done a set of twist drills and am working on some masonry and spades next. I really shouldn't have to do this.

Festool if you are listening we need to be able to purchase full sets of twist, brad point, auger spade, masonry, auger, and Forstner bits. Should be available in both imperial and metric, impact rated, in their own cases, and have universal hex shaft so they work in the TID 18, Centrotec, and offset chucks - ~$50 for each set (maybe more for Forstner). 

The centrotec chuck is very lightweight so I have continued to use it with my DeWalt - I did have to modify the DeWalt by shimming the "fastfix" socket with a 2.5mm spacer and then slightly grinding the hex shaft on the attachments.

Snappy makes quite a few Centrotec bits. At least enough common woodworking bits that I can do 90% with Centrotec.

Seth