Kapex 60 review, part 2 including the mobile stand and test for flat and square.

[ach_78]

I've used a Dewalt with the shadow for the blade line. The issue with that is that you have to start to lower the blade & have the blade guard lift out of the way before you can see it. This means you only have one hand free to move the wood.  I see the Kapex 60 has slots in the guard, so can you easily line the cut up using the light without having to lower the saw etc?

According to this video, not at all. The shadow becomes clear only as you lower the blade until you almost touch the pencil line. Then only, there is contrast thus precision (IF you are actually looking at the shadow of a tooth and not the blade body which is recessed compared to the kerf of the cut).


Another problem I see with the shadow system is that you can't precisely line up with a pencil line that has been made on the side of a thick wood stock, since you won't be able to lower the blade until it close to the pencil line. Imagine using the shadow in the configuration you have at 5:00 in the video above.

I'm pretty sure the shadow thing is a serious step backwards compared to properly adjusted lasers (although the laser don't seem dead on in the video above). Festool may have switched to shadow 1/ because of cost and or 2/ to avoid trips to the service center just because misaligned laser.

I think the light should still be adjustable as it could very well be out of alignment with the plane of the blade. It's just that since you have to almost touch the line to get a reading it will be much less visible and problematic.

 

[DiscoStu]

I was very keen on the 60 until I read that. Having used the Dewalt I find the shadow line a great idea but completely flawed. It seems to cut very accurately along the shadow and I love that. However the fact that I have to lower the blade to remove the cover so that the line shows makes the shadow almost redundant. I might as well just line up the blade as I've only got one hand free to move the stock in either scenario. With a laser you can carefully align the stock using both hands without having to touch the saw. My current Mitre saw is a cheap saw with a decent blade and a dual laser which I've spent some time adjusting and I find this far easier than the £600 Dewalt that I've been using recently. Oh and the Makita that we've been using is not square. We've tried to square it up etc but something is out. I think it might be the fence.

Not sure what to get if the 60 isn't going to be for me.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Stone Message]

I would caution anyone not to get too transfixed by the shadow line based on a few shots in a video. Go and look at a machine yourself and either have a go or at least watch someone else demo it in front of you.

I have seen it in the flesh and I don't see the problem.

I would ask anyone with a real issue with this to tell me what degree of accuracy they would expect from a laser line and what they realistically achieve in day to day woodwork. For vitally accurate cuts I either use my Incra saw stop arrangement or I lower the non spinning blade to a pencil line before making the cut.

I am hoping to get hold of a demo machine later this month and will make sure that this is shown clearly in the video.

Peter

 

[glass1]

Shadow line and light on Dewalt is intuative because one can lift the blade guard up with the thumb of the trigger hand greatly increasing its intensity on the wood.

 

[Stone Message]

Shadow line and light on Dewalt is intuative because one can lift the blade guard up with the thumb of the trigger hand greatly increasing its intensity on the wood.

I appreciate that one can do that, do you recommend this to everyone as a safe way of using that tool?

Peter

 

[lunchman]

Shadow line and light on Dewalt is intuative because one can lift the blade guard up with the thumb of the trigger hand greatly increasing its intensity on the wood.

I appreciate that one can do that, do you recommend this to everyone as a safe way of using that tool?

Peter

I was a bit mystified by that statement as well Peter, as I've never had to do anything special to see the blade shadow on my Dewalt miter saw - simply lower the blade, the guard lifts out of the way and the shadow line becomes clearer as the blade gets closer to the  wood.

Other than my jigsaw, I don't own any tools which incorporate lasers, so I can't compare laser vs. LED. Outside in direct sunlight, it can be a bit tricky to see (if at all), but otherwise it works as I expect it to.

-Dom

 

[glass1]

Maybe it's safer to cut wood with a butter knife. Like I said guards that empede can be more dangerous. The shadow line is also most accurate when the blade is spinning. Lowering the spinning blade and moving wood can be dangerous. Lifting the guard slightly allows one to lower spinning blade less. 99.99% of cuts made on the scms are not done under the type of controlled situation I see on your videos using the hold down clamp etc... most of us on the job sites must produce. I stick with my statement, that safeties that empede are more dangerous as they hang up and hit the blade and or bind or get removed altogether. It's a poor design on the festool and hitachi alike.

 

[glass1]

most argue that the best safety system added to table saws is either the sawstop or the bosch. Neither, its the quick release riving knife on the dewalt saw. Pull the lever pull it out. Vice versa. This makes it much more likely the riving knife will be used when it should be on most cuts. The more user friendly the safety is the more its used. Most of are not retired lawyers and doctors turned hobbyist woodworkers. Festool advertises professional tools for professionals, its time to cater to us, are you listening festool, forget these weekend warriors and get serious. Sorry to say it as I see it.

 

[DiscoStu]

My issue with the Dewalt is not seeing the line but seeing the line without having to move the guard either by hand or by lowering the blade. If I have a piece of 3m long 6x2 I really need both hands to try and get the material in the right place. I have been happy with a well aligned laser and I'm sure I would be happy with a shadow line as long as I can see it.

Looking at the 60 there are some slots cut out of the guard that look like they're there to allow the light out and cast the shadow with the guard in place. I'm hopeful that this is the case. I might have to go and try one out.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Davesbuildtips]

A couple of things to be aware of.
1. The material support arms on the kapex 60 stand are the same as the kapex 120 stand but there are 2 differences, the tape measure and the clamp underneath. The kapex 60 stand has a plastic support tray that the 60 is fastened to. This support is wider by around 200mm than the kapex 120. the connection points for the material supports are therefore approx 100mm further away from the blade either side. In other words, they are interchangeable but the tape measure becomes redundant. But as I say in the video, this gives you 5 metres of support overall. The clamps to lock the material support arms to the support tray are larger to give a more solid connection.
2. The mobile base/stand for the kapex 60 comes with the plastic support tray. The mobile base for the kapex 120/88 comes with the plastic connectors the are machine screwed to the underside of the kapex 120/88 feet, not interchangeable at all.
The mobile base itself is a new design that requires 4 screws to assemble and now arrives in a smaller box. Even though it may be a little confusing, the mobile base/stand is the same up until the different connectors to the relative saws.
3. The last thing is that I am told that the crown mold stop will not connect to the kapex 60 support tray although I am yet to test it...will do so next week.

 

[#Tee]

its so cute...wonder why they didnt make this cordless to compete with the ones in its class. everyone else is doing it lol

 

[peter halle]

its so cute...wonder why they didnt make this cordless to compete with the ones in its class. everyone else is doing it lol

Perhaps it might be that if you are using dust collection you will still have power within reach of the saw?

Peter

 

[Davesbuildtips]

its so cute...wonder why they didnt make this cordless to compete with the ones in its class. everyone else is doing it lol

Perhaps it might be that if you are using dust collection you will still have power within reach of the saw?

Peter

That has been my understanding as well Peter.

 

[bryan1982]

Hence we need a festool cordless dust extractor!!!!!

Cheers

Bryan

 

[antss]

its so cute...wonder why they didnt make this cordless to compete with the ones in its class. everyone else is doing it lol

Perhaps it might be that if you are using dust collection you will still have power within reach of the saw?

Peter

oh, you mean just like when people pull out their new tsC, hkC, bhC, psC  - all of which hook up to dust extraction. Certainly those users are close to the electric grid too.

So then , who's the fella that decided that a hammer drill, circular saw and jig saw are worthy of cord cutting, but a compact mitersaw is not ?

Are you guys inferring that dust collection on the mitersaw is more important than with a handheld circ. ?  What about a hammer drill ? Certainly you'd agree the dust created by drilling the cementious materials that tool sees more hazardous than the dust from the saw ? 

I don't find it surprising that there's no cordless version. Festool just hasn't been at the forefront of cordless tools.  The quality is there  , but the innovation lagging behind.

Late to the game with compact drills by nearly a decade, late to the game with a drywall gun, late with cordless saw, late with a radio, and late with Li-Ion.........

 

[Harry1561]

Personally l don't see the need for a cordless mitre saw, l can understand that cordless tools have become a godsend where you take the tool to the work, but l always set my mitre saw up as a work station and take the work to the saw.

Harry

 

[antss]

I see a need for both.

Harry, do you carry around a contractor saw with a TEFC motor or a full blown cabinet saw to your jobsites ? Why not ? 

In the 70's any home builder I came across set up a radial arm saw and a contractor saw on site starting at framing and left it setup through finish trim. They were stations too.  No one does that anymore.  Why do we suppose that is ?

Battery mitersaw is certainly not for everyone , but there is a viable market for them. Makita has had one for over a decade.  Bosch toys with them every couple of years. Dewalt has one now too. Even the king of homeowner grade-  ryobi has made them. Milwaukee's new one is reported to be very good.

Honestly, a lineup is worthy of two different cordless handheld circular saws, but a cordless mitersaw is somehow redundant or won't produce viable sales ? :