Kapex EB sale...Curiouser and curiouser

[hemlock]

Over the past several weeks I’ve been researching how updated the Kapex EB is from when motor issues were reported, since many vendors have it on sale for a significant savings, with one noting it had the updated motor found in the REB.  I have been interested in a Kapex for years but was apprehensive due to its price and motor issues. Here is what I found...maybe it is helpful to those considering a purchase like I did:

The EB has 3 Tool Numbers in EKAT.  One (10037846) is very similar to the REB (10034769).  The other 2 are rather different (495649, 495822).  What’s curious, is the 10037846 EB has a schematic numbering scheme very similar to the REB that is clearly different from the 495*** EBs.  In particular what caught my eye was the 10037846 EB showed a cleantec (locking) dust port, which was supposed to be a feature of the REB and is not shown on the 495*** EBs schematic.  The motor assembly that contains the armature was labeled the same between the 10037846 EB and REB (Pos 201) and differently from the 495*** EBs; but the part number was different. There is no part number for the armature alone though.  So, there seems no way in EKAT to see if the armatures themselves are the same. The different part numbers for the whole assembly though is curious and not reassuring for them having the “same motor”. 

So, based on comments from vendors and Festool Service that the EBs as of 2018 (?) had the new armature (Festool was firm with me it was not a “new motor” just upgrades to some components—primarily apparently the armature), and what I found out about other similarities noted above, I bought a 10037846 EB which appears to the newest iteration of the EB.  The saw has a March of 2019 date of manufacture and includes a cleantec dust port.  All this leads me to wonder, if the only difference between the 10037846 EB and the REB is the new base?  It sure seems like that may be the case.  Would be interested in other perspectives, especially those who know their way around EKAT better. 

Finally, for those on the fence regarding a Kapex, like I was, it may be a good time to consider picking one up—assuming Festool has really addressed the motor issues—with the sales out there now on the EB.  It may be even more compelling if 10037846 EB is indeed essentially the REB without the new base (assuming you don’t need or want the new base). Spot on accurate out of the box, including lasers.  I’m impressed. 

 

[Claimdude]

I picked up the sale Kapex from Hartville (they are the ones that state the motor is the newer version). Time will tell if the problem has been fixed but at $1100 I was willing to risk it.

Jack

 

[ChuckM]

Suffice to say this: You can't find a better precision & productivity tool than the domino joiner and Kapex. I even know someone who sold his DF500 because he did not find it that much useful at all. Well, you really don't know what you don't know.

If you have a mtire saw that you think cuts perfectly well, you don't need a Kapex. But, if you have to turn to the tablesaw and cutting jigs to make precision angle cuts because your mitre saw sucks, $1100 is well worth the risk. UNLESS the REB or new motors turn out to be another lemon, I can't imagine similar sale deals will happen again.

 

[xedos]

for those on the fence regarding a Kapex, like I was, it may be a good time to consider picking one up—assuming Festool has really addressed the motor issues—with the sales out there now on the EB

This is a big ask in my view.  Let's remember this is coming from the guys who designed and built the orig. motor that's at issue. 

Only for the longest time they denied there even was an issue (or couldn't find it).  Then their response was - if there is an issue , it's because the customer is cutting the wrong material with it.  Then, publicity apparently got too big to ignore and they "looked into it" followed by no comments for years.  Now, we've got a revision ( by the same people presumably that designed the first one) packed in with other "improvements" rolled out as a new model.  Hmmmmm.  [unsure]

Call me a skeptic, but given the response and track record on this I'm not convinced the (non)issue has been resolved.  We all know the old saying about fixin a problem requires one to acknowledge there is a problem.  I'm sure many have heard that warranties are an expression of confidence in one's product.  An additional warranty on these motors (especially repaired units) would signal to me that there has been real progress.  Sadly, that's not the case.

A festool "sale" is nothing to sneeze at considering they are like rain in the desert.  It's a very good strategy to counter the negative image Kapex has gotten the last couple of years.  It will easily win over the slightly apprehensive people while Festool bides its time seeing if the "upgrade" pans out.

Suffice to say this: You can't find a better precision & productivity tool than the domino joiner and Kapex.

Sure I can.  Lamello Zeta and Mafell DD40 are every bit as precise and useful ( at some things) as Domino.  It really boils down to what the job at hand is.  My 20+yr old Dewalt miter saw is just as precise as my Kapex and it's not needed a new motor and I can get a blade tomorrow at pretty much anyplace that sells sawblades.  Dust collections stinks, but that's not a precision issue and I've got it in a surround with 4" collection pipes so in that config. it's better than Kapex + vac.  Taking it to site sucks, something Kapex excels at. So again; right tool for the job.

 

[ChuckM]

Suffice to say this: You can't find a better precision & productivity tool than the domino joiner and Kapex.

Sure I can.  Lamello Zeta and Mafell DD40 are every bit as precise and useful ( at some things) as Domino.  It really boils down to what the job at hand is.  My 20+yr old Dewalt miter saw is just as precise as my Kapex and it's not needed a new motor and I can get a blade tomorrow at pretty much anyplace that sells sawblades.  Dust collections stinks, but that's not a precision issue and I've got it in a surround with 4" collection pipes so in that config. it's better than Kapex + vac.  Taking it to site sucks, something Kapex excels at. So again; right tool for the job.

Snip.
Both examples you quoted sound to be as good as the tools I mentioned, but they aren't better ("as precise and useful..." "as precise as...).

 

[ChuckM]

An additional warranty on these motors (especially repaired units) would signal to me that there has been real progress.  Sadly, that's not the case.

Snip.
An additional warranty sure would partially right the wrong. I must have been among the first ones advocating for that measure.

 

[hemlock]

All I was trying to point out was the "new" EB which is being discounted up to 25% depending on vendor, appears to be the new REB model except for the wings on the base (and new storage locale for the angle finder). 

 

[RNEMTP]

This may sound stupid but where do you find the manufacture date?

 

[peter halle]

The manufacture date is on the label of each Festool tool.

Peter

 

[Cheese]

This may sound stupid but where do you find the manufacture date?

Tool number...serial number...build date.

[attachimg=1]

 

[xedos]

Both examples you quoted sound to be as good as the tools I mentioned, but they aren't better ("as precise and useful..." "as precise as...).

And you are basing this off of what ? 

I take it you've measured the machining tolerances and the resulting cutouts all three machines make ?    Have you used all three to even have an anecdotal take?

You may find the Domino better suited to what you do.  Even like the feel , sound , and aesttetics better than "X" machine ; but that doesn't make it more precise.  Lamello has been making joining machines for decades -  since before Festo had little more than a tracksaw and a few borrowed sanders, routers and vacuums.  They put the cutouts where the markings say they will. 

Perhaps you mean "useful" ?

 

[ChuckM]

Snip.
And you are basing this off of what ? 

Off of what you provided in your first response.