Kapex is 60
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kevinculle
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glass1,
Just curious, can you point to where Festool made this dubious pronouncement?
Just curious, can you point to where Festool made this dubious pronouncement?
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kevinculle said:
I am not Glass1, but perhaps he was referencing reply 273 in this thread: http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tool-problems/the-life-span/270/
Peter
Cheese
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Bob D. said:
Here's the quote:
"Based on the concerns mentioned in this thread, we’ve done some research, and this is what we have found. In the U.S, the Kapex does have a somewhat higher repair rate than the rest of our tools. However, it is still a very low percentage, based on the number of tools in service. We attribute this slightly higher than average repair rate to the relative complexity of the tool, rather than any inherent design flaw or other issue.
The anecdotal claims of issues mentioned on the FOG simply do not, in our opinion, create a reason to think that there is a widespread problem. We are confident in the overall quality and performance of the Kapex, and believe that you should be as well."
Cheese said:
It would be nice if Festool released the numbers, it might help put this issue to bed. Saying it's "a very low percentage" could be a lot of things.
I suspect that Internet forums like FOG can become an echo chamber. Note, I own a Kapex and have not had any issues.
Bob
I am more interested in the ks60’s reliability as this saw is attractive to me. As I have a monster ls1219 I would like a portable saw. The new ks 120 is 3 lbs heavier than the old a poor move in my opinion unless of course Festool would get off its ass and sell the ks60 in the USA.
threesixright
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95% of the festool owners are not on this forum. So, if you see here a lots of complains I don’t think it gives a good indication of rate of failure.ChuckM said:
I would buy a 60 or 120 in a heartbeat. People (users) do stupid things and then they come here and complain (you can bet they tell you only 1/2 the story). IMO this issue is a bit overrated, that’s just me.
If your unlucky, I’m sure FT will fix it.
I’m not into hardcore festool usage, but let me give you a example (different business).
Customer calls me, label printer is down, I asked them if something special happened? No no just a normal day. Right. After inspection a huge crack, they pulled it of the workbench, only “forgot” to mention it.
Just my $ 0.00002
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threesixright said:
It is true that the majority of Festool owners are not members here, and it is also true that complaints here don't tell us the rate of failure -- at least as long as Festool (which does have the real data) keeps its silence.
Yet, why users of OTHER brands of mitre saws don't seem to make this kind of motor complaint (in this forum or in other woodworking forums)? There are many more other brands of mitre saws in use and being ABUSED by their users, and they hold! We heard from Kapex owners who said they baby cared their Kapexes or even used them only for "delicate" cuts etc. and they STILL failed. Some even joked the best way to keep your Kapex alive is not to use it at all.
Don't get me wrong. I love my Kapex (4 years+ old), use it a lot (treating it just like any other mitre saws I used to have, except that the Kapex is fed with a dedicated 15Amp circuit -- anyone who uses the Kapex with a CT extractor for the auto-switch function should think twice), but I don't like the cloud over its reliability. In another older thread quoted somewhere here, someone suggested a 10-year warranty on the motor (alone), and I think that measure would settle once and for all any worry or doubt people may have about this excellent saw.
kevinculle
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I find it interesting that Festool pronounced the KS 120 failure rate "not abnormal" about 40 months ago yet by my recollection the reported failures on this forum have seemed to pile up at a faster rate subsequent to that pronouncement...happenstance I suppose.
Getmaverick
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I don't own a Kapex, don't think I ever will. I have Makita and Bosch. Now if one of those breaks down after a few years I will just go buy another one. If I spent almost $2000.00 on a Kapex and it burned out after a few years then I would be really upset and vent to everyone including here on the FOG. For the amount of money spent for a Kapex there is no excuse for motor failure.
demographic
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I think I'd like a 60 but will wait till they do a cordless version as I'm trying my best to avoid buying corded tools nowadays.
Corded tools on uk building sites are very quickly disappearing and the transformers and cables are becoming harder to find. I do have my own transformer and cables but can't be trashed pulling them out of the van all the time.
The whole site infrastructure that the main contractors supply is changing and they want rid of powercables as much as possible.
That makes it more expensive for us but also means they won't be directly employing so many people.
Might be better for subcontractors like me then.
Corded tools on uk building sites are very quickly disappearing and the transformers and cables are becoming harder to find. I do have my own transformer and cables but can't be trashed pulling them out of the van all the time.
The whole site infrastructure that the main contractors supply is changing and they want rid of powercables as much as possible.
That makes it more expensive for us but also means they won't be directly employing so many people.
Might be better for subcontractors like me then.
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The OP asked about failures with the KS-60.
Can we please keep the conversation to that point. If the conversation continues as an off-chute of the other thread here about the larger Kapex then the two threads will be merged.
If you want to make comments about the larger Kapex please post them in that thread.
Peter - Moderator
Can we please keep the conversation to that point. If the conversation continues as an off-chute of the other thread here about the larger Kapex then the two threads will be merged.
If you want to make comments about the larger Kapex please post them in that thread.
Peter - Moderator
Thx. I just want a ks 60. It’s a small saw that bevels both ways. 60 degree bevel, good dust collection, light weight and has a shadow line light. If it’s reliable I am in. But no Festool discriminates against Americans. I take it personal. It bugs me. I no longer care about the kapex 120 and it’s issues. It’s a goldy lox saw big but not big enough but too big to be really portable. I am sure some bean counter has determined with the bad rap of the ks 120 ( which goes way beyond this forum to my local retailers and production trim crews) that the ks 60 will rob sales of the 120 and the profits are higher on the 120. I could be wrong which I am often but still Festool discriminates by offering Europeans tools but not us yanks.
Stephen B
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[size=8pt]
[size=13pt]As has been said on other posts re this excellent saw (see my Avatar) its about sales potential which you highlight, but also perhaps US regulatory measures and an erratic electrical system with different voltage to Europe at least. Perhaps FESTOOL will produce a battery version which might be easier to sell in NA.
I enjoy using my saw - it has so far exceeded my expectations. If it is ever sold in NA I am sure it would be a winner for FESTOOL, particularly in final fix, cabinet making and flooring trades.
glass1 said:
[size=13pt]As has been said on other posts re this excellent saw (see my Avatar) its about sales potential which you highlight, but also perhaps US regulatory measures and an erratic electrical system with different voltage to Europe at least. Perhaps FESTOOL will produce a battery version which might be easier to sell in NA.
I enjoy using my saw - it has so far exceeded my expectations. If it is ever sold in NA I am sure it would be a winner for FESTOOL, particularly in final fix, cabinet making and flooring trades.
Sanderxpander
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In the mean time, the guy who made the Kapex also designed the Metabo KGSV 72 Xact (sym).
threesixright
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ChuckM said:
I simply don't know. What I do know is when I wanna buy a new car, suddenly I suddenly it seems that model is driving everywhere, and that's of course not the case (recognise that?). It was always there I just didn't notice.
I think most serious companies have good intentions. If, for what ever reason, it has a design flaw, why wouldn't FT update this? They have to handle machines that are coming back (which also cost manpower and $$$). And there is really no timer in there that says "break after warranty period". I simply don't believe that. In these day and age, something that stupid could back-fire very quickly. The more logic approach to me would be IMO, if indeed there was a issue, FT (silently_ fixes it, deals with old machines, and that's the end of it.
I'm not saying the machine doesn't break, but its very hard to fix a problem that you can not reproduce.
