Kapex is DEAD

[Peter Durand]

I have had my Kapex for a number of years. Works well. BUT, it has been my practice to get it running to full speed before lowering it to the wood. And not rush the cut. Thick, or in my case mostly thin. I remember reading somewhere that that is the proper way to treat these motors (electronic controlled).

A while ago I had a  carpenter doing some work in my home. He was about to do some miter cuts on 2X4s and other thin stock outside on some sawhorses.I told him he could use my "miter saw" in the shop...save setting up etc. He was delighted. So the wood was set against the fence and he proceeded to grab the trigger and start the saw whilst lowering it on to the wood. The result was, to say the least, not good. The vac (connected) did not have time to come up to speed (dust all over) and the cut was very coarse. Lots of tear out. But that is how I suspect most folks in the trade use a "chop saw".

Needless to say I cut the rest of the wood.

I know people have said they baby their Kapex, but I wonder if  technique might be a factor.

BTW, after reading this thread, I also am somewhat anxious about the longevity of my expensive saw.

Cheers,

Peter

 

[mkasdin]

I pretty much do the same. I have a crappy yellow miter saw I got on sale for $200 I replaced it with a better blade. I typically pull the trigger and lower the blade to the wood so it just touches the scribed pencil line. Then I alter the position if necessary check for fingers away from the blade and gently lower the blade into the cut. With lack of a laser this is how I've trained myself. Sounds like I'm a good candidate for a kapex

 

[rjh]

Can we hear from a few users who's Kapex is still going strong after 4 or more years?

 

[jools]

240v 3+ years old. UG stand and wings.  Don't baby mine. Travels in the van every day. Cuts every thing from 2x10 treated to glass bead. It's been soaked by rain twice and even been ejected out the van doors and tumbled down the road when the van was totalled and was still square. Lost paint but that's about it most worn off by storing the wings on the cart in transit. Have made zero clearance insert and have a 6mm ply sacrificial fence which is held on with double sided tape which gets moved in until too short. Takes 5minutes to make another. Always bring blade upto speed before cut to get extraction upto speed. Have a 36mm x 1.2m hose on a midi. Use a cheap blade for framing stuff and reclaim. Good blade for finish work. It's made a huge difference to on site accuracy and work flow and easy to move about, and as far as I'm concerned has already paid for itself.
Just my experience with the Kapex

I had a Makita before. Heavy on its own to carry, then get the stand, then jury rig some home made wings. After banging about in the van it wore in the headstock and would rust at the nearest sign of moisture. Always needed squaring up. It was hard to adjust or make repeatable cuts. I've sold it
Just my experience with the makita

 

[Eagles21]

Had my Kapex (240v) for about 18 months and I treat all my tools carefully. They are how I earn my living so want them to last.
99% of the cuts I do is in small material such as architraves, kitchen cornice etc, skirting and occasionally 4x2. However my saw is about to go back to Festool for the second time. It had a new motor in July as it suddenly went up in smoke and now it keeps running slow as the thermal protection cuts in. It didn't do this on the previous motor but it is now stopping me from working as I keep having to wait for it to cool sufficiently.
I do like the saw and most of my kit is festool but I do worry about when the warranty expires .
If it goes bang out of warranty I will not replace it with another unless Festool make some serious changes to it.

 

[TomE]

Can we hear from a few users who's Kapex is still going strong after 4 or more years?

Yeah, what do you want to know? Kapex at 6 years, I'm a trim carpenter, kitchen fitter, remodeler, have knocked together cabinets and a staircase now and again. I have several other 'chop saws' which are handled in similar manner.

Do I let the saw get up to speed before cutting? Almost all the time, particularly when the vac is connected. Why, because it cuts better and allows air flow to get going to the vac. There might be a time or two I'll flick the saw on and jamb it into some shim stock or something but seldom is it done.
 
Just because there is a trigger and the stock is 'right there', doesn't mean that the saw should be treated any different than say a table saw.... imagine being able to jam a board into the blade not yet at full speed on that table saw.

Do I let the saw stop after full cut is done? A lot of times, usually when the chance of kickback or flinging of cut-offs is possible.

Do I do repetitive cuts on thin materials.... all the time, sometimes the vac doesn't have time to shut down before the next cut, still take it up to full speed.

Do I throw just anything on the Kapex to cut, nope just the trims and fitting stocks, framing stuff and the like goes to my other saws.
Not because I don't think the Kapex can't handle it but because the tolerances needed for framing are not as close and the blades on those saws are more aggressive.

Do I use the variable speed controller? Can't really think of a time when I have, stays full go. Don't understand the usefulness of the option when the saw is already a little under powered. I just slow the feed rate on cuts that might require some finesse

Lasers get used almost all of the time when ambient lighting allows.

Do I 'train' others on how to use the tools, yes.... if they don't apply that training they don't get to use my gear.

Do I think this 'burn out ' problem exists... yes and it sucks for those who go through it and if my unit blows up there will not be another one bought or the old one repaired until I see some progress on this issue.

 

[bobfog]

Can we hear from a few users who's Kapex is still going strong after 4 or more years?

It's not really relevant.

Whilst I'm sure (as I stated above) many Kapex last for years and years, it doesn't in any way lessen the seriousness of the smaller, but still worryingly large number that don't.

I've been on building, DIY, woodworking, carpentry, construction forums, etc for years and I've never seen a mitre saw from anyone else that has had so many reports of breakdown, either standalone, relative to overall market share of the company, or compared to reports of other tools from the same manufacturer breaking down. 

If 1000 people got murdered in a short space of time, would you ask to hear from everyone who wasn't murdered as some sort of mitigation of the seriousness of all the people who were murdered?

 

[JZ Bowmannz]

Can we hear from a few users who's Kapex is still going strong after 4 or more years?

I got mine at least 7 years if not 8, and it's still cutting everything. Took it apart a few times to clean it, and never had electronic problem with it, laser is still working as well.

I don't know if that relevant, I do keep the speed at 5. In fact, I keep all my sanders, TS55, OF 1400 and CTs a notch less than full speed since they were new, and so did to my be loved ATF 55 and OF 1000 (no plug-it cord version). So far nothing wrong with any machine yet.

 

[TomE]

If 1000 people got murdered in a short space of time, would you ask to hear from everyone who wasn't murdered as some sort of mitigation of the seriousness of all the people who were murdered?

And that has what to do with anything Kapex.
The guy asked a question, we answered.
No doubt many have been aggravated by their own situations with the saw, can not blame them... but let's not bring in atrocious comparisons to make a point.

 

[bobfog]

If 1000 people got murdered in a short space of time, would you ask to hear from everyone who wasn't murdered as some sort of mitigation of the seriousness of all the people who were murdered?

And that has what to do with anything Kapex.
The guy asked a question, we answered.
No doubt many have been aggravated by their own situations with the saw, can not blame them... but let's not bring in atrocious comparisons to make a point.

It has nothing to do with a Kapex, it has to do with demonstrating why the question/logic behind the question was irrelevant.

If my "atrocious" comparison offends you I can water it down.

If 1000 teddy bears got stolen from toy shops in a short space of time, would you ask to hear from everyone whose shop didn't have teddy bears stolen as some sort of mitigation of the seriousness of all the teddy bears that were stolen?

 

[rizzoa13]

Teddy bear larceny made my day thanks.

 

[Jamestoolie]

If 1000 people got murdered in a short space of time, would you ask to hear from everyone who wasn't murdered as some sort of mitigation of the seriousness of all the people who were murdered?

And that has what to do with anything Kapex.
The guy asked a question, we answered.
No doubt many have been aggravated by their own situations with the saw, can not blame them... but let's not bring in atrocious comparisons to make a point.

It has nothing to do with a Kapex, it has to do with demonstrating why the question/logic behind the question was irrelevant.

If my "atrocious" comparison offends you I can water it down.

If 1000 teddy bears got stolen from toy shops in a short space of time, would you ask to hear from everyone whose shop didn't have teddy bears stolen as some sort of mitigation of the seriousness of all the teddy bears that were stolen?

I like the teddy bear analogy.  If a teddy bear company who has 10 million teddy bears in circulation discovers that the heads fell off of 10,000 would they recall all teddy bears?  That is 10,000 traumatised children but equates to 1% of all teddy bears in circulation.  [tongue]

 

[Bohdan]

I like the teddy bear analogy.  If a teddy bear company who has 10 million teddy bears in circulation discovers that the heads fell off of 10,000 would they recall all teddy bears?  That is 10,000 traumatised children but equates to 1% of all teddy bears in circulation.  [tongue]

No not necessarily but they may try to learn how to sew the heads on so they don't fall off and fix the ones that do for free.

 

[nickao]

I almost have the money saved for a Kapex but I think I will now keep my Dewalt for now and invest in a new bandsaw.  Now I have to decide which bandsaw I want???  Thanks Festool.... [blink]

That's the best decision you ever made, getting a band saw verse a second miter saw that is. Even if the Kapex had ZERO issues the truth is the Kapex can't do anything your current saw can't already do, but a Band saw will open up a new world for you.

 

[rjh]

I posed my question honestly. I can't help (and don't really care) that some find it irrelevant.
I was genuinely hoping to buy a Kapex in the coming months and the thread was giving me great concern. I don't doubt that a number of users are having problems. But some of the comments, or perhaps just the overall impression, seemed to be quite accusatory and possibly one-sided. I could have started an independent thread but didn't think it necessary. I didn't mean to give the impression that I didn't care about the main premise of the thread. It's just very hard to know what the facts are with regards to this saw's problems. Forums are often where people go to try to solve their problems or vent their frustrations, so it is natural for such things to become one-sided. However, the concerns/problem of the thread's founding author are completely valid and important.
Perhaps I could have asked: exactly how many 110 kapex have been sold and exactly how many have had this failure. But I doubt anyone but Festool has this information. So I guess  one can't know and the only option is to raise a ruckus.
As far as logic is concerned: it is an entirely relevant question to ask how many people (or teddy bears, if you like)  were not murdered (stolen). 1,000 murdered out of 6 billion is not a significant statistic. 1,000 out of 10,000 is. Math. [ah, I see jamestoolie posted this logic before I finished this]

 

[antss]

Can we hear from a few users who's Kapex is still going strong after 4 or more years?

There are some that run on 110V ?

All kidding aside, Id like to hear how frequently they use them and if they cut timbers or just regular ol thin wood.

And for the teddy bear crowd - my answer would depend on how much said bears cost.  No one gives a flip about a $5 bear lasting a month, but at $500, their expectations are a whole lot higher no matter how many Tedyco sold or found defective.  And it would also depend on if said bear was meant to be played with or was sold just as a decoration.  ANd if it was marketed a play bear and touted by the co. , the bear reps, and fan boys as Uber Qualität and the head fell off more then a handful ( that clearly weren't abused) and weren't replaced gratis - then yes there is a problem and 1% failure is too many. 

AND , we all know that we're not talking about a 1% failure rate here.  Because if we were, the same company mentality that brought us such gems as  " it's meant to cut large timbers, not thin trimwork" and " you're not using it correctly" would be sure to tell everyone that the failure rate is only 1% and you must be abusing it if it broke.  ANd lets not forget the Euro crowd that use the 230V version is not here voicing dissatisfaction. Seemingly the Brits that have access to both voltages appear to have issues with the 110V version too .

 

[rizzoa13]

Whatever the failure rate is its statistically significant enough that festool won't just cover the costs of the burnt out motors. I run a small business and while I'm not in sales i do sell myself on quality. If I had a few issues with my work id RUN back to fix them and save face. If I had a larger amount of issues and was going to lose my shirt then I might keep mum on the issue and just hope it goes away. (I wouldn't do this no matter what)

What this analogy means is that in my eyes festool has a big enough problem on their hands that they won't just bite the bullet and fix it. They have done literally NOTHING to alleviate the problem. In the last thread they opened up an email to glean information the the usage of the motors that were failing. They then came up with the idea that repetitive cuts in thin materials could be an issue. This was months ago and nothing has been done. Make your own decisions based off the facts.

 

[Tyler Ernsberger]

I agree that there is an issue with the Kapex.  It should be a 10+ year saw for its price.  For people to have issues 3-5 years after purchasing the saw is scary.  I'm I need for a new miter saw and have looked at the Kapex but I can't let myself buy it and worry about the issues with the motor.  The miter saw sound be able to do cuts in thin materials with no issues.  Doing trim all the materials are thin and there's a lot of repeat cuts.  Festool should fix the issue with motor and give a longer warranty to prove they stand behind the Kapex.  For me I will not purchase a Kapex until the problem is solved.

 

[Johncarlo]

As a general contractor I've used my Kapex around five times a month to cut all types of material. At no point I would call it abuse of a tool. I use tools to make money. The longer a tool is running, the more money I make. I paid $1500 (not including the stand) three years ago with it selling for over $1900 today. Prices have gone up and the issue still remains. I've been in construction a long time and only need two fingers to count the number of Kapex I've seen on sites. I love the brand, I love the tools, I love my Kapex and it kills me to see it sit. There is no saw like it when it's working. Will I stop buying Festool, no. Will I tell people to buy a Kapex, no. Will I pay to fix my Kapex, no. Not until there is a fix with added warranty.

 

[Cheese]

It should be a 10+ year saw for its price.

Hey guys, for the price of the Kapex, it should be a 30 year saw... but the downtrodden lot that we are, we'll all be happy with a dismal 10 year life span.  [mad]
I have a Milwaukee chop & slider that are over 15 and closer to 20 years old and they both work fine. Both of them together cost almost...drum roll...$400.  [cool]

I get the German "Das macht nichts" attitude, but at sometime you just have to give it up. There are issues and there are problems with the Kapex, but let's move on...and I would consider a good start would be to find a different vendor for the motor and the internal elements of the motor.
We aren't sending people to the moon, we're cutting wood. There's been a precedence set here that there are multiple suppliers of mitre saws that have worked for over 20 years and they continue to do so.
My suggestion as bold as it may appear to be.........................is to contact one of those successful mitre saw manufacturers and work a deal where you can utilize their motor manufacturing expertise while throwing them a herring for a joint project. It worked with Fein...it will work with others.  You just have to lose the attitude.