Kapex, is there an underlying design/quality problem?

[Stephen B]

[size=11pt]

A Kapex is highly likely to be my next Festool purchase. I am convinced regarding dust extraction, features and quality.

However since joining the FOG last May, I believe there has been, compared to other Festool products, a high number of discussions alleging design faults or quality issues. Some can be traced to operator error, some not.

So my questions -

Are there real issues, or do these posts represent a high number of sales compared to other Festool products?
Is there an issue with 110v compared to 240v models or vica versa?

Your thoughts!   [smile]

 

[Benjamin]

I don't think so, I just think we're all so used to absolute perfection with all of Festool's products that when there is a small out point it looks very large.

like one point is the miter gauge doesn't slide as smooth as some might like but there is solutions to it.

I have the Kapex and its light years ahead of everything else on the market and I love using it every time I do . you might have to tweak a thing or two to it ( like the miter gauge if its not as smooth as you'd like or make a zero clearance fence to have flawless cuts like the ts55 every time with no blow out but except for that its a amazing machine.

I think when ever festool comes out with there next model all of these awesome upgrades people are doing to the saw on the FOG will be built into the saw to take it to the next level, but trust me you'll be impressed at the quality of it.

 

[AlexThePalex]

I think the only underlying problem with the Kapex is that by nature it's a far more complicated machine than most other (handheld) Festools.

How many parts move on a jigsaw? 2 or 3. How many on a sander? 2 or 3.

And a miter saw? Dosens.

So the more parts you have the more can go wrong.

On this forum you only hear of troubles with the Kapex. I'm sure that if you kept an eye on other forums you'd read a lot of complaints about miter saws from other manufacturers too. It's the nature of the beast to be more complicated. That doesn't necessarily mean there are outright design/quality problems. I'm sure there will be some flaws here and there though.

 

[Stone Message]

My Kapex arrived perfectly set up. I was moving a huge piece of wood, ages ago, and knocked the front mitre clamp area quite hard. I had to re-adjust for square which took next to no time thanks to the US Supplemental Manual - well done Rick.

My only minor niggle is that the trenching function is not perfect as one has to ensure a consistent downward pressure on the carriage for each cut to guarantee that they are even. I have now got used to this and can produce quite reasonable trenching cuts but for mission critical work I just use the Kapex to scribe each side of a trench and then either finish by hand or use a router.

Now, if anyone reading the part about trenching thinks that this is a major defect or criticism then they have misinterpreted what I said.

The bottom line is....

Everything I make seems to come together perfectly square every time and the Kapex has a huge part to play in this. I would not change it for any other machine.

Peter

 

[Michael1960]

Alex nailed it with the point regarding the complexity of the Kapex.  More things to discuss!!
I have my Kapex connected to a Midi vac with a short 36mm hose.  The dust collection is miles better than any other SCMS I've used.  The twin lasers are also very useful. 
If you are doing a lot of trenching work with thick timber it may be worth keeping in mind Kapex has limited depth capabilities.  For this reason I have kept my Hitachi slider.  Having said this I'd still go for the Kapex...

 

[sgryd]

In about 8 years of owning my Kapex it has broken down twice. Last time was a couple of weeks ago. Same problem booth times - electronics. The motor first went weak and then it only started once for every power cord insertion, i.e. I could unplug-and-plug to get one cut.

Problems will hit your machine in due time whatever brand it is. I don't consider the Kapex problem prune.

At about 6 yeas-old and now (about 8 years old) I have sent the machine in for service. Booth times I got it back with a note saying it was within the warranty. How many vendors would fix your broken machine for free 5 years after the three-year-warranty went out? The same thing happened with my 9 years old OF1010. It was a minor problem, but they fixed it for free within the warranty (which went out 6 years earlier).

So.. You'll for sure have problems in the future whatever brand you buy. But I think Festool is the right horse to bet on if you want to be taken care of when problems arise.

//Michael

 

[jonny round boy]

I've had my Kapex since they first came out - bought it in August 2007.

Only had one problem with mine that required sending it back - that was that the sliding sections of the fence got 'stuck' to the fixed section, and one of them I couldn't move at all. Festool UK said I could send the saw back & have them fit a new fence, or if I couldn't do without it for 3 days they could send me the fence to fit myself. I opted for the former, and got a full service on it too (all FOC). I *think* that was before the warranty ran out, but it might have been shortly after.

I had a problem with the blade guard retracting & not springing back, but just learned to live with that. For some unknown reason that problem fixed itself shortly afterwards. I also had a problem when a large offcut got flung into the back of the blade housing & smashed up a couple of bits. I bought the replacement pieces from Festool (about £15, IIRC) & fitted them myself.

I don't believe that there are any inherent 'problems' with the Kapex - I think it's great. Sure, there have been a couple of issues, namely: 1. The fence sticking issue mentioned above, this was fairly common on a few of the very early machines. I think they changed the grade of aluminium to fix that; and 2. The 'scraping' problem on the mitre, which was unique to the early US models.

Some people complain that the lasers are too sensitive to getting knocked out of alignment, but I personally haven't had that.

To the OP I would say just buy one - I'm sure you'll be happy once you forget how much you paid for it.... [blink]

 

[Debug]

I am a hobbiest.  I bought a Kapex for the dust collection and accuracy.  I have a small shop in my basement and it fits in nicely.  The initial cost was a big shock, but I have never looked back.  Remember that most product forums usually will be more top heavy on negative posts.  People who are not having problems do not tend to post, since they are enjoying their stuff.

 

[firepilot]

I have only had mine for about a month. I really like it so far. I was having a hard time turning the miter fence until I read the directions! I am doing a major renovation of my kitchen right now. Having the dust collection is great. I set it up on the floor and framed a 20 temp wall, another 9 knee Wall all using 2x4 and 2x6 material. I pulled it back into my shop yesterday and was amazed again at the cleanup.

I also in my small shop appreciate that the head moves out from the wall and not back like the Bosch I sold to buy this one. It really reduces the depth I need for my miter saw station.

I read about the problems people are having. I also read about the service Festool provides to people with the problems.

I would buy it again and the sticker shock fades fairly quickly.

Phil

 

[r cash]

I have just bought a second Kapex to replace the hiachi next to my 14"radial arm.
My first Kapex is on a ug stand for on site work.i have had it for about 6 yrs.
After using the new one the older one is ready for a facelift so it's going back
in the new box for some love. Mainly the spring back is slow.
I am professional using tools every day.
Somebody here tried to tell me six yrs ago to go cheaper. I'm really glad I did not listen.
After 35 yrs of making sawdust and furniture you cannot go wrong with a kapex

 

[Stone Message]

I have just bought a second Kapex to replace the hiachi next to my 14"radial arm.
My first Kapex is on a ug stand for on site work.i have had it for about 6 yrs.
After using the new one the older one is ready for a facelift so it's going back
in the new box for some love. Mainly the spring back is slow.
I am professional using tools every day.
Somebody here tried to tell me six yrs ago to go cheaper. I'm really glad I did not listen.
After 35 yrs of making sawdust and furniture you cannot go wrong with a kapex

I am not quite ready to launch my campaign yet but...

I really understand what you are saying Mr Cash. I know that younger tradespeople do not always have the cash to buy the right (best) tools but they could do so much better if they got it right first time.

How can we persuade people to go for quality tools? Obviously I am really talking about Festool kit. My work has been transformed by the TS with guide rails, the Domino, Kapex and Rotex. How can we as a forum or Festool world wide get the message across that going cheap just does not pay?

A bad workman might blame his or her tools but Festool owners have nobody to blame but themselves.

I have started a separate thread on this now to avoid hijacking the OP's question.

http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-how-to/how-to-get-younger-tradespeople-to-buy-festool/

Peter

 

[gompy58]

In about 8 years of owning my Kapex it has broken down twice. Last time was a couple of weeks ago. Same problem booth times - electronics. The motor first went weak and then it only started once for every power cord insertion, i.e. I could unplug-and-plug to get one cut.

Problems will hit your machine in due time whatever brand it is. I don't consider the Kapex problem prune.

At about 6 yeas-old and now (about 8 years old) I have sent the machine in for service. Booth times I got it back with a note saying it was within the warranty. How many vendors would fix your broken machine for free 5 years after the three-year-warranty went out? The same thing happened with my 9 years old OF1010. It was a minor problem, but they fixed it for free within the warranty (which went out 6 years earlier).

So.. You'll for sure have problems in the future whatever brand you buy. But I think Festool is the right horse to bet on if you want to be taken care of when problems arise.

//Michael

Sorry, but this is realy NO Festool standard. My OF1400 was 3 months out of waranty when in a project the trigger broke down on a friday morning. A quick call to Festool learnd my to kiss goodbye to the OF1400 for that weekend.

I called my Festool dealer where THIS machine wasn't bought. Could he help me out ? Was there a show model which I perhaps could borrow?

He called Festool and 15 minuts later he called me back... Jump in your car, go to Festool and they will fix your machine today and you can wait for it. You will have to pay but I will take the Tax part on me.

This was all on the credit of a big Festool dealer who helped me out and " forced " Festool to help him to help me by calling in some favors...

If it was for Festool.... sorry... perhaps next week or so... and you have to pay becaus it is 3 months out of waranty...

And for the Kapex....

On a woodworking forum a member bought a brandnew Kapex 120. The frame wassn't straight... back to Festool. They replaced the Kapex for annother new Kapex... again... faulty machine... Back to Festool again.... after that Festool replied... sorry, our fault but a new machine wil take abouth a month... we have some problems....

 

[jacko9]

In about 8 years of owning my Kapex it has broken down twice. Last time was a couple of weeks ago. Same problem booth times - electronics. The motor first went weak and then it only started once for every power cord insertion, i.e. I could unplug-and-plug to get one cut.

Problems will hit your machine in due time whatever brand it is. I don't consider the Kapex problem prune.

At about 6 yeas-old and now (about 8 years old) I have sent the machine in for service. Booth times I got it back with a note saying it was within the warranty. How many vendors would fix your broken machine for free 5 years after the three-year-warranty went out? The same thing happened with my 9 years old OF1010. It was a minor problem, but they fixed it for free within the warranty (which went out 6 years earlier).

So.. You'll for sure have problems in the future whatever brand you buy. But I think Festool is the right horse to bet on if you want to be taken care of when problems arise.

//Michael

Sorry, but this is realy NO Festool standard. My OF1400 was 3 months out of waranty when in a project the trigger broke down on a friday morning. A quick call to Festool learnd my to kiss goodbye to the OF1400 for that weekend.

I called my Festool dealer where THIS machine wasn't bought. Could he help me out ? Was there a show model which I perhaps could borrow?

He called Festool and 15 minuts later he called me back... Jump in your car, go to Festool and they will fix your machine today and you can wait for it. You will have to pay but I will take the Tax part on me.

This was all on the credit of a big Festool dealer who helped me out and " forced " Festool to help him to help me by calling in some favors...

If it was for Festool.... sorry... perhaps next week or so... and you have to pay becaus it is 3 months out of waranty...

And for the Kapex....

On a woodworking forum a member bought a brandnew Kapex 120. The frame wassn't straight... back to Festool. They replaced the Kapex for annother new Kapex... again... faulty machine... Back to Festool again.... after that Festool replied... sorry, our fault but a new machine wil take abouth a month... we have some problems....

This has not been my experience with Festool.  My Domino was 6 months out of warranty but they replaced the fence height adjustment for free and got my machine back to me very quickly.

I not sure of another tool manufacturer that would have allowed you to drive over and wait until they "immediately repaired"  an out of warranty tool even if you had to pay the repair cost.  The fact that they made themselves available is better than any other tool manufacturer that I have experience with.  I value customer support and I'm willing to pay extra for that support, I hope you have better experiences in the future.

Jack