Kapex just died

[JCLP]

I have used the Kapex hooked directly into a CT26, multiple times, at Festool training in Henderson NV. Never an issue with power draw.

With the ct drawing an average of 8.3A, it is not possible to draw the recommended amperage from a 15A circuit. 15A minus 8.3A only leaves about 7A for the Kapex. Low current and high current  will eventually destroy a motor. On a 240 Iine you get very lose to a total of 15A. I agree the saw will work with less current, but not ideal.

 

[Ripit]

I have used the Kapex hooked directly into a CT26, multiple times, at Festool training in Henderson NV. Never an issue with power draw.

With the ct drawing an average of 8.3A, it is not possible to draw the recommended amperage from a 15A circuit. 15A minus 8.3A only leaves about 7A for the Kapex. Low current and high current  will eventually destroy a motor. On a 240 Iine you get very lose to a total of 15A. I agree the saw will work with less current, but not ideal.

Where are you getting the average 8.3 from? You measured it? What does the CT draw under full load (that would be the rating in the manual of course) i think the kapex is like 13.3A full load at the spindle.

 

[Ripit]

Not sure why everyone is so fixated on the Kapex being hooked up to the extractor is what is causing the motor failures, the 3.7A rating is on the extractor isn't it? The risk of fire comes from drawing to much power through the conductors of the extractor not the saw, are the extractors going up in smoke as well?

Humm, I work in an engineering elec lab I may just have to do some testing...

Does anyone have an idea of how many unique individuals on FOG have had motor failures?
Does anyone know about the year that the motor failures started? How about how many kapex saws have been sold since that time?

Not trying to deny or confirm just curious...

 

[ChuckM]

Does anyone know about the year that the motor failures started? How about how many kapex saws have been sold since that time?

Not trying to deny or confirm just curious...

Only Festool has such information. No one else does.

 

[Michael Kellough]

Not sure why everyone is so fixated on the Kapex being hooked up to the extractor is what is causing the motor failures, the 3.7A rating is on the extractor isn't it? The risk of fire comes from drawing to much power through the conductors of the extractor not the saw, are the extractors going up in smoke as well?

Humm, I work in an engineering elec lab I may just have to do some testing...

Does anyone have an idea of how many unique individuals on FOG have had motor failures?
Does anyone know about the year that the motor failures started? How about how many kapex saws have been sold since that time?

Not trying to deny or confirm just curious...

Thanks for weighing in. Getting tired of reading the nonsense that the tools shouldn’t be plugged into the CT.

A significant “risk of fire” isn’t going to occur unless you keep everything running continuously for hours if not days on end. There have been very few reports of CTs burning up.

Whatever the specs on the vac the tool will pull all the amps it needs to run intermittently, which is how we use the things. If you run continuously wire gauge and voltage drop can become an issue.

 

[kevinculle]

The speculation about Kapex failures is all there is given the lack of any insight, information, context or advice on this issue from Festool.  The only people who have any facts on this issue are apparently dumbstruck and the silence is deafening to us Kapex owners!

 

[Cheese]

Getting tired of reading the nonsense that the tools shouldn’t be plugged into the CT.

A significant “risk of fire” isn’t going to occur unless you keep everything running continuously for hours if not days on end. There have been very few reports of CTs burning up.

I agree with you Michael, however we shouldn’t be debating this issue amongst ourselves, this is a Festool corporate issue and they need to be the final arbiter.

Unfortunately they are apparently brain dead as they will not weigh in on anything controversial including updating the legalize of their own products. Really..............444 Watts, that’s the available current draw...that’s stupid, Festool clear the air, make a statement and stand by it.

As the Kapex issues pile up and these other wacky Festool corporate statements continue unabated, the earnest customer conversations and concerns become just noise in the background while Festool plods forward carrying their made in America banner and mouthing their “Festool part of a puzzle” mantra.

Oh and I almost forgot...Festool says “we have an imperial version of whatever tool you need, they’re labeled in imperial but unfortunately they’re only in metric increments”, now that’s really helpful.

 

[Mario Turcot]

I understand that there is several reasons a motor will can be damaged during a normal use.

Things I try to keep in mind regarding the Kapex;
- Keep it clean (remove any dust around the motor casing),
- Run it at least once a week for a few seconds during idle periods (have a board in your shop with schedule maintenance),
- Always hold lumber tight against the back fence to prevent kick back and bearing damage,
- Use a dedicated outlet when possible (make sure you don't have a comp, fridge etc.. on the same circuit),
- What else? oh yeah play some music in the shop, tools love music and it also help to mitigate the grinding noise from the saw

This is my home work list to keep my power tools healthy and last longer.

Now on [member=101]Festool USA[/member]

Side note: The Kapex is one of the only variable speed saw if not the only one. It use a CB to control the speed and load to keep a constant speed. Why the electronics from the CB do NOT prevent/preserve the saw motor from damage when the source is over or under requirements?

 

[ChuckM]

- What else? oh yeah play some music in the shop, tools love music and it also help to mitigate the grinding noise from the saw

This works even when you are in the hand tools only mode ;D.

 

[JFelchlin]

I love my Festool tools. Having said that... I’m not a Festool “purist”.
I’ve noticed more and more QA problems with Festool the last few years -
As evidenced by we buyers/users of them -
Detailing more and more problems on the FOG.
I really wanted to buy the Kapex. But... Given of all its problems...
I glad to still be using my Bosch 5412L Compound Miter Saw.
I’ve had it hooked up (“auto” on) to my - Industrial Steel Deluxe Cyclone (all metal) Dust Deputy and Festool CT33 DC - For YEARS.
It’s accurate to less than a tenth of a degree (good enough for me)...
And cuts “like butter” - All day long.
Cost: Around $600 when I bought it.

Sometimes... Festool - At 2X’s or 3X’s the cost...
Just doesn’t add any value. And, it seems to be happening -
Sadly - More and more.
Joe

 

[JCLP]

Well heard from my dealer that he had received a quote from Festool Service in Canada. I called Festool Service and they would not discuss the quote with me as everything goes through a dealer. So off I went for a visit. I did find out that dealers do typically add 10-15% markup on the cost of the repair as they are charged by Festool which is then marked up and sold to us end users.

I was told that the motor had burned out and was replaced at no cost as the motor is under warranty for 5 years, at least here in Canada, from date of purchase and they rest of the saw is under the 3 year program. Two additional items needed to be repaired.

1) The bushing at the end of the saw blade that controls the ease of plunging and lifting the saw needed to be replaced.
2) The shaft that the blades sits on also needed to be replaced due to leakage of lubricant.

and thirdly, as the 2 above mentioned items are not covered by warranty there is a shipping cost fpr the whole saw.

So how much is all this? My total bill will be $500.00 CAD, plus taxes. Since it cost $175.00 to ship it there, $100.00 to ship it back, that leaves $225 for parts and labour. The dealer decided to not mark it up and gave me a bit of a discount on the shipping.

All and all not to bad. If my motor was not under warranty, this would have been $1000.00 repair bill at which time I would have told Festool to keep the saw for spare parts and I would have bought a different brand name that I know would last longer then 4 years. By the way, the new motor is warrantied for only 6 months.

Should get it back next week sometime.

Cheers,
JC

 

[ChuckM]

Thanks for sharing the details. Interesting that the shipping costs vary for the same route.

The biggest take for me is the 5-year warranty for Canadian owners. I agree, if the repair bill amounted to $1,000 or anything close, there is no way the repair could be justified financially.

The big question is could the same repair still be justified for a second time if it happens again a few years later?

 

[Runhard]

That still seems expensive, especially because you could basically buy another brand saw for what you paid in repairs and shipping. The difference in shipping seems a bit odd as well.

I hope that you are satisfied and your saw and that it works for years to come.

I’m personally a bit worried about your 2nd item because my saw leaks from, what appears to be, that same spot.

 

[JCLP]

Thanks for sharing the details. Interesting that the shipping costs vary for the same route.

The biggest take for me is the 5-year warranty for Canadian owners. I agree, if the repair bill amounted to $1,000 or anything close, there is no way the repair could be justified financially.

The big question is could the same repair still be justified for a second time if it happens again a few years later?

Festool Canada probably as a national contract with the courier company to handle all of their shipping. Thus reduced pricing.

As for this happening again, If I'm withing the warranty time frame, I will send it in, but if out of warranty, greater then 5 years old, it will be sent to the metal recycling depot and trashed. I will then change brands. Until then fingers are crossed.

Cheers,
JC

 

[JCLP]

That still seems expensive, especially because you could basically buy another brand saw for what you paid in repairs and shipping. The difference in shipping seems a bit odd as well.

I hope that you are satisfied and your saw and that it works for years to come.

I’m personally a bit worried about your 2nd item because my saw leaks from, what appears to be, that same spot.

It is leaking and still under warranty, send it in. My TS55 tracksaw has not been used for at least 6 months and it is leaking also and is out of warranty.

Cheers,
JC

 

[Harvey]

If I were you I would sell it, recoup some of your investment and replace it with another brand. (Yes, I own a  Kapex, but I'm a hobby user, and don't depend on my tools to earn a living).

 

[Ted Miller]

Ok was just in the shop and ran amp draw at the outlet on the CT-26 and the Kapex:

Kapex Plugged in CT-26, running no load around 16.5 amps, load cross cutting 1"x4" 3/4" Miratec, 19 amps.

CT-26 running alone around 8 amps.

Kapex plugged directly into outlet, no load about 8 amps, load cutting same as above around 11 amps.

Lock rotor on both above 20 amps of course but was not measuring at panel. Outlet was putting out 119.5 volts. About 125' run from panel, #12 wire, 20 amp breaker.

Now one thing I did notice, Kapex plugged directly into outlet, came up to speed instantly. To tell you the truth never paid attention to that before as most of the time, about 95% of the time Kapex is running off one of my vacs.

Had the Kapex since it hit US, I think 2010. Depending on the build, it can be running all day, some days handfuls of cuts.

My Kapex had a few issues, the scrapping issue and oil leak, I fix them both.

Now seeing how fast it came up to power, I will for sure run Kapex direct to outlet...

 

[Ripit]

I had an atf65e track saw bought prolly in 2004ish just sold it for $265 and replaced it with a ts55. Paid $300 new now i am wondering if I made a mistake, the ts55 doesn’t come close to the build quality of the atf55e - the ts75 os a bit closer in quality. I never had any oil leaking frm the atf65 and I bet it sat for at least 1 year or more multiple times since I owned it, rehabed 3 houses with it... hell I didn’t even know their was oil in these saws until I signed up on FOG a few weeks ago.

Was FOG around in 2004? All I remember is everyone thought I was nuts for spending so much on a “circular saw”...

 

[JCLP]

Well, after 8 days I got my Kapex back. I have to say thank you to Festool Canada Service for a very quick turn around. The saw is like new. Even my lasers were adjusted. Very happy with the service I received.

So, I decided to install an another dedicated 15A circuit so I now have 2 circuits available for the CT26 and the Kapex. I purchased an iVac Switch and plugged it into the two 15A circuits. The Kapex has one circuit and the CT 26 has the other. The switch works great. When you turn the saw on the CT26 turns on and when you turn off the saw, the CT26 runs for another 5 seconds to to clear out the hose. I did notice that the saw now runs faster and louder. It seems to be more aggressive. The CT26 also sucks better. It must be due to the added current they are both receiving. They are no longer starving for power.

My recommendation to everyone in the 120V world, use 2 seperate circuits and get yourself an iVac, or similar, switch.

One last thing. With the saw being away, I realized just how much you can't do in the shop.

Cheers,
JC

 

[ChuckM]

Kapex: "Home sweet home!"

May I add that if one plans to use any extension cord with the set-up you recommend, they should go with a 15amp cord under 25 ft. (I can't find any 20amp extension cord for that matter. I will be making one (10 ft long) for myself.)