Kapex KS 120 vs KSC 60

[fvoelling]

Trying to decide between these two - like the combo deal of the cordless 60 with the dust extractor, better miter angles, convenience of cordless, brushless motor, lower weight and price vs the increased capacities of the 120. Don't want to spend another 1k on the mobile stand with extensions as this will mostly be used in my workshop, hoping to make a first gen (1080?) or current gen MFT or a Ridgid mobile stand work with either Kapex saw. Just a DIY guy trying to cut some straight 90 degree bevels in 1x10 boards (the fence on my 12" Bosch compound miter is not straight enough with no adjustment other than sacrificial boards).

Some posts on the 120 hint at motor problems in the past, not sure that's been resolved or blown out of proportion.

Any words of wisdom/advice?

 

[ChuckS]

If you don't need these superior features:

1) Larger cutting capacity
2) Hold-down clamp
3) Better dust collection
4) Top-of-the-world bevel (which is different from miter) control,

you can skip the KS120.

 

[mino]

For workshop use, KS 120.

EDIT:
Meaning, even compared to the KS 60, the KS120 is the way to go. It is just a better saw and it is not that much bigger nor heavier.

 

[Kev]

I have the KAPEX 120 with its trolley and wings and it was like stepping into the future when I upgraded from my Hitachi SCMS (though that little puppy did me well).

Over and above the KAPEX I have a small 18V Metabo SCMS that you could throw about with one hand and a monster 40V Makita 305mm with a custom stand and extensions you could park a truck on (in addition to its reasonably good Makita stand).

These three mitre saws all differ in portability, power, accuracy, capacity, dust collection, ergonomics ... need I go on?

The KAPEX doesn't address my "no mains power" needs. Technically I could perform all of the required cuts with the monster Makita. The Metabo is gutless but its size and weight make it incredibly convenient.

I suppose I'm saying that your requirements will dictate how you progress. Before I moved to a rural location the KAPEX and the little Metabo did everything I needed but I hate messing about with generators so when I moved I went hard into Makita's 40V range (with a few other brands to fill the gaps).

Look hard into your requirements as the KS60 is potentially very limiting. If I personally owned a cordless KS60 I would still want a KS120 in the workshop and in my situation I'd still be missing out on large cut capacities away from mains power.

 

[fvoelling]

Tough decision still! I'll take a look at both in the store today.

Since I will still have my 12" Bosch (albeit with a less than perfect fence but for framing and such I can compensate), the smaller cordless 60 has a lot of appeal for its portability, price and brushless motor (still a bit apprehensive about the reliability of the 120 though you'd hope by now Festool has replaced the armature I read about in a couple of other threads with the improved version).

The combo deal on the 60 with the cordless dust extractor for $1700 (with 4 batteries!) makes that one of those few times where you can get Festool on "sale", and it would allow me to buy other cordless Festool tools without charger/batteries.

 

[mino]

In that case the combo kit looks good. Just checked and the US bundle price is very good.

Though do keep in mind you will absolutely want the new 8.0 packs for the CTC and you will want the new SCA 16 chargers instead of the "Duo" non-AirStream charger.

If you have no 18V Festool stuff, or have very few packs, it is fine. If you already have lots of the 18V packs and chargers, I would look to offload the Duo charger while it is new .. and invest in a set of 8 Ah packs for the CTC once available in US.

All that said.

The combo mentioned by Kev - a KS 120 at "home" and a mobile small SCMS is the better option on comfort of use. By far. Expect to sell on the 12" Bosch pretty fast once you get a hand of the KAPEX .. if you go with the KSC 60, you will be tempted to keep also the Bosch for "those bigger jobs", wasting space etc. Again, talking a hobby user.

 

[COBill]

In that case the combo kit looks good. Just checked and the US bundle price is very good.

Though do keep in mind you will absolutely want the new 8.0 packs for the CTC and you will want the new SCA 16 chargers instead of the "Duo" non-AirStream charger.

The charge time difference between the TCL 6 Duo and the SCA 16 isn't huge - 33 minute for a dead 5.0Ah pack on the SCA 16 compared to 45 minutes for the TCL 6 Duo.

Is 12 minutes worth $136.74 x 2 to you?

 

[luvmytoolz]

The charge time difference between the TCL 6 Duo and the SCA 16 isn't huge - 33 minute for a dead 5.0Ah pack on the SCA 16 compared to 45 minutes for the TCL 6 Duo.

Is 12 minutes worth $136.74 x 2 to you?

For the smaller batteries in anything other than a drill or impact you'll likely find anything less than the 8aH's very limiting, so you'll be charging frequently depending on how you use them. So the faster time definitely works out better there.

I now buy all the kits bare as I've already bought one 8aH set, and will get another couple.

 

[luvmytoolz]

Look hard into your requirements as the KS60 is potentially very limiting. If I personally owned a cordless KS60 I would still want a KS120 in the workshop and in my situation I'd still be missing out on large cut capacities away from mains power.

I bought the 120 many years back and absolutely love it, best SCMS I've owned or used, but now that I've bought into the Festool battery platform I'm seriously thinking of getting the KSC60 at some point, as lugging the 120 around does get really tiresome.

 

[johnmpf]

I am very happy with the KSC60. I have the full stand and wings that go with it. The only limitation is not being able to cut thick enough for some applications. This has not been a problem for me.
As much as I would love to have the KS120, the extra 10 pound weight was too much for my 70 year old back to handle.
Some have criticized the plastic base for the KS60 stand. I respectfully disagree with them. It is not "cheap or flimsy" in my opinion. Its expensive, but what Festool accessory isn't expensive.
I may be wrong, but I thought that the CTC cannot use anything larger then the 4.0ah battery.

 

[luvmytoolz]

I am very happy with the KSC60. I have the full stand and wings that go with it. The only limitation is not being able to cut thick enough for some applications. This has not been a problem for me.
As much as I would love to have the KS120, the extra 10 pound weight was too much for my 70 year old back to handle.
Some have criticized the plastic base for the KS60 stand. I respectfully disagree with them. It is not "cheap or flimsy" in my opinion. Its expensive, but what Festool accessory isn't expensive.
I may be wrong, but I thought that the CTC cannot use anything larger then the 4.0ah battery.

Yeah the KSC60 looks really great, I never would have considered it before as I had the 120, but the size and weight is appealing. I don't know what batteries are supported by the CTC SYS, but according to an earlier post from mino, the CTC Mini/Midi's support the 8Ah batteries.

 

[Chainring]

Yep, nothing but 4.0s in a CTC SYS.

 

[COBill]

Well i hemmed and hawed and picked up the KSC 60 because where I use it I have access to one 20A power circuit, and power-wise:

KS 120: 13A
CT 48: 8.3A

Since that would mean a cordless KAPEX or a cordless CT, I decided to get the KSC 60.

It's also easier to get outside if I don't feel like dealing with dust collection at all.

 

[ChuckS]

So you know. The Kapex 120 can be plugged into the CT and then the CT into a 15 A outlet with no concerns. A 20 A outlet is not necessary, though it won't hurt either.

 

[COBill]

So you know. The Kapex 120 can be plugged into the CT and then the CT into a 15 A outlet with no concerns. A 20 A outlet is not necessary, though it won't hurt either.

Uh, no.

The manual for the CT vacs specifies a "Max. rating of connected Power Tool" of 3.7A.

The Kapex KS 120 REB is specified as having a power draw of 13A.

I can't say for the Festool vacs, but the typical outcome of doing so would be playing "what's that smell" as the internal wiring to the accessory power outlet heated and melted its insulation off and eventually melted itself.

 

[ChuckS]

This topic has been discussed before regarding using the Kapex 120 and CTs on 15A outlets.

Example: https://festoolownersgroup.com/thre...ower-requirements-and-circuit-capacity.76447/

Kapex 120 users (including Festool vendor showrooms I know) have been plugging their miter saws directly into their CTs (which are then powered by a single 15 A outlet).

Before I sold my CT26, my Kapex was running on the CT26 which was plugged into a 15A outlet. I own a CT15 now, but use it for other things.

 

[peter halle]

Fifteen years later my Kapex and CT have happily coexisted on the same circuit with the Kapex plugged into the CT without any issues. I would suggest that the 3.7A written above is a CYA for non-Festool products plugged into the CT.

Peter

 

[COBill]

The bottom line is, depending upon the length of your cut it may "work," but if it causes a problem Festool won't warranty that.

Wiring is effectively a slow blow fuse; if you did something that would draw the full 13A specified as the max KAPEX draw, I don't think it would work out any better than if you plugged in a hair dryer.

(Or, you can draw more than 15A through a 14 gauge wire… for a while.)

Note also another reason to choose the KSC 60 over the KS 120 REB if it would work for you is the former is brushless; sadly the KAPEX still uses a brushed motor; I'm honestly shocked Festool hasn't upgraded it yet.

 

[peter halle]

The bottom line is, depending upon the length of your cut it may "work," but if it causes a problem Festool won't warranty that.

I doubt that there would be a warranty issue with using any of the Festool products connected to a Festool CT. There are numerous statements made in writing by Festool that it is safe to use their saws with the CT.

Peter

 

[COBill]

With, sure.

Plugged into, no.