Kreg Rebel Pocket Hole jig.... Domino patent violations?

This is just impossible for me to fathom since through our current lifetimes we’ve had more than numerous examples of why AI is a dangerous thing.

The most obvious is The Terminator.
I did not say that A.I. is not currently dangerous. In all likelihood, A.I. back-stabbed the program writers way faster than anyone imagined.

In some ways A.I. reminds me of Golding’s Lord of the Flies. Without the rules of society to control their behavior, they (the boys) plummet into chaos.

A.I. has no rules of behavior. They start out where Golding ended up with only the results to yet occur. With no structure, the chaos is inevitable.
 
Was back at my local Woodcraft today and they had finished setting up the Kreg Ionic display. Pretty hard push on both Kreg and Woodcraft's part and the display is right in the center of the shop.

I got to handle them all, put a battery in them and turn them on (don't know if I'm really allowed to do that, but I did). I said before that I they looked like they would fit in somewhere between Kobalt and Craftsman and I still think that. Overall, they seem like perfectly serviceable tools that are clad in Kreg's typical blue plastic casings. Outside of that, I didn't find anything that remarkable about the lineup. Doing the All The Power In The Universe Test with the impact driver - that was ho hum. The drill felt like it had more oomph when you pulled the trigger. The sander reminds me of Ryobi's 18v Cordless Sander in design. It does have switchable speeds. The mini jigsaw is about the same size as Skil's 12v version but the plastic casing feels cheap.

What I thought looked interesting in the 731 Woodworks video last week was the trim router. In person, it is a cordless clone of the Makita 701 corded router - and being offered at the same price: $149. While I have the Makita and it's a good router, the height adjustment sucks. The Kreg keeps it and that sucks too. There was really no improvement on the design. A far better deal is the Hercules trim router for $70 which has superior height adjustment.

And then there's THE DOMINO KILLER.

Three hundred fifty bucks of pocket hole rebellion. You've seen above how it comes apart to switch out the driver. It's got some metal and a lot of plastic. I don't know what it is but Kreg's plastic always feels... "cheap"? No, not "cheap" but a little better than cheap. Fine on a $20 pocket hole jig that you clamp to the workpiece but on larger power tools at a price (I can get the DeWalt 620 router for the same money). Battery mount is on the back and goes in from the side (a little odd) but it's not quite apparent how to turn it on - where's the switch??? It took me a few moments of futzing with it to realize the big handle has a lock to depress on either side then a bar to pull on the underside of the handle, like a trigger. It's not bad. However there's a pointed lip on the handle that digs into my handle. Uncomfortable. Makes me wonder if I'm supposed to palm the handle and that curve is supposed to guide me? Tried it that way and the tool is more difficult to operate.

Maybe I'm thinking too much like a Domino user. Once I figured it sits on the workpiece and the front fence registers off the side of the piece so the tool lays flat, it seemed alright. There are some skid pads on the bottom for grip and it seemed fine as a tool. I'm not much of a pocket jigger so it's utility for me is questionable. However, the woodworker who uses a lot of pocket holes will probably find this to be a Godsend or maybe "The Tool That Will Change Woodworking FOREVER!!!"
 

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I am of an age where all the plastic parts of my bicycle broke, shattered or failed within the first few days of getting the bike. So no matter that on an intellectual level I can recognize that ABS, nylon, fiberglass reinforced nylon, etc. may be a superior choice for a component, at a primal level, “plastic is junk”.

I bought, a number of years ago, a Porter-Cable version of a stationary pocket hole jig. It is big, heavy and entirely made of metal. P-C abandoned the product after just a few years. It is well-engineered and works perfectly. And it suits my metal-is-better mentality.

So my main problem with Kreg, is that everything they sell looks and feels cheap. They all seem to work though. The same can be said for Wolfcraft and Milescraft stuff. I have several of their products. They all work perfectly. But there is no pleasure handling their products. The tactile experience is awful.

In any case, I respect Kreg’s engineering. I even have a few of their products. But I seem to rarely use them. They look and feel like the crappy plastic bits on my bicycles that broke the first week I rode them.

But people who grew up later, had different experiences with the plastic bits on their bicycles (all plastic bicycle wheels, for instance) and their opinion of Kreg probably does not parallel mine.
 
If you're doing enough pocket holes to merit a $350 tool, I cannot imagine why you wouldn't spend the extra $50 for the Foreman. Looks totally awkward.
 
If you're doing enough pocket holes to merit a $350 tool, I cannot imagine why you wouldn't spend the extra $50 for the Foreman. Looks totally awkward.
The bare tool is $300, but you still need to purchase a battery & charger that's probably over $100 to get the thing to work...however they don't offer a battery or charger yet as an accessory. :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: This is one of the goofier roll-outs I've ever seen, although considering the guy reviewing it...well consider the source. 😵‍💫
 
I cannot imagine why you wouldn't spend the extra $50 for the Foreman.
I'll guess is depends on the size of the things you're pocket-holing. The bigger they are, the more a portable tool makes sense. I once owned a Delta stationery biscuit joiner - sold that puppy pretty quickly and got a Lamello.
 
I'll guess is depends on the size of the things you're pocket-holing. The bigger they are, the more a portable tool makes sense. […]
I agree. I built a workbench using 2” x 4” lumber for the structure. I used two pocket screws for each butt joint. My Porter-Cable pocket hole jig was meant to be used on a table top or mounted on a wall.

8 foot long pieces would be impossible to join with pocket holes using that jig. I would need 12’ ceiling height. Instead I bought the smallest and simplest (and cheapest) pocket hole jig from Kreg for those long pieces.

Here is the P-C jig:

1758138131407.jpg

And this is the jig I bought for the longer pieces:

1758138209888.jpg
 
I have the sub $20 Massca twin jig for normal pocket holes, and a now-discontinued Kreg KJHD Jig HD for large (2X material) pocket holes. The latter has been replaced by the Kreg KPHJ920 Pocket-Hole Jig XL, but the newer jig would not have worked for my application, which was reinforcing re-drawing together a toe-nailed joint of horizontal 2x8s into vertical 4x4s. With the old style jig I could just butt it up at the joint and drill holes, but it looks to me that the new jig would have required taking the joint apart to fit over the 2x material's end. That would have been virtually impossible since my 2x8's have vertical grape stakes attached to them and spreading that joint apart would be a major issue, if even possible without damaging the fence further.

I actually used pocket holes for a joint that might need disassembly in the future, using un-glued domino's for shear strength and alignment. That's a weird one, eh?
 
The big hit on Kreg-style pocket hole jigs is that the angle of the screw hole is too acute. The machines that mill the slot first and then drill the hole are drilled on a shallower angle, which helps keep things aligned.

I’ve only ever used the Kreg-style jigs, so I have no comparison joints to comment on. This is all based on readings and videos.

Though all the Norm Abrams videos where he used pocket holes, he used the two step machines, never the Kreg-style jigs (for what that’s worth).
 
I don't see it replacing Domino at all. PH screws and domino tenons not the same. I use both together on a lot of builds.

I also don't think it will replace my bench mounted Kreg.

However I do see it replacing pretty much all use of the portable clamp on Kreg jigs. Except when there might not be room for the machine. On a large piece (too big to put on bench unit). This could probably do ten holes in the time of one hole with the clamp on units.

I think it is a big improvement over those. One tool, set it down and go. No fiddley alignment, no clamp, plus DC attachment! Sure will be handy, and it is on my buy list.

Seth
Do you have the Foreman or the Benchtop Single Spindle Pneumatic Pocket Hole Machine? I have the Foreman in a 2 car garage shop that I somewhat run a custom cabinet shop out of along with remodeling. My Foreman is going on Facebook as soon as I get the Rebel. Atleast I am hoping. Space is a problem for me and at the moment I have to put the Foreman on a bench which makes big panels a difficult to impossible. Would love a Castle TSM-12 but similar space problems at the moment. Each year I am going to build a new miter stand in a different location to house one of these at the correct height but you know how that goes. But back to the Foreman, I habe trouble keeping the fence in line during use. In conclusion I would agree with you if you have the pneumatic version but if you have the Foreman I wonder what you know that I don't as I dread using mine. Mean that with all sincerity. Now does anyone know when this is for sale, I am building a murphy bed with bookcase and cabinets on each side right now. I am sure I will get an email saying its available right after I assemble everything.
 
Pocket hole screws provide modest strength with good holding. The holding means no clamping is required. Perfect for face frames and OK for many other applications. In my experience, face frame joinery is the one place where pocket hole joinery reigns supreme. The screws draw the joints tightly closed. They are always hidden. It is fast. And if your butt cuts are at 90 degrees, the face frames end up square.

I still prefer biscuits to join the face frames to the boxes. Less planning is required to keep the pocket holes hidden.

I see it used for cabinet boxes, and it is probably OK for that if the boxes are wall mounted. The wall providing the solid structure. But less solid than other joinery methods.

And while pocket hole joints don’t have much racking strength, they still have more racking strength than dado joints. So, carefully chosen, the pocket hole joinery is entirely appropriate.
 
Do you have the Foreman or the Benchtop Single Spindle Pneumatic Pocket Hole Machine? I have the Foreman in a 2 car garage shop that I somewhat run a custom cabinet shop out of along with remodeling. My Foreman is going on Facebook as soon as I get the Rebel. Atleast I am hoping. Space is a problem for me and at the moment I have to put the Foreman on a bench which makes big panels a difficult to impossible. Would love a Castle TSM-12 but similar space problems at the moment. Each year I am going to build a new miter stand in a different location to house one of these at the correct height but you know how that goes. But back to the Foreman, I habe trouble keeping the fence in line during use. In conclusion I would agree with you if you have the pneumatic version but if you have the Foreman I wonder what you know that I don't as I dread using mine. Mean that with all sincerity. Now does anyone know when this is for sale, I am building a murphy bed with bookcase and cabinets on each side right now. I am sure I will get an email saying its available right after I assemble everything.
It is available right now at my local Woodcraft. If I wanted it, I could walk in right now and buy it for $349. Woodcraft Baltimore, if you want to call them. I'm pretty sure they will ship it to you.
 
Do you have the Foreman or the Benchtop Single Spindle Pneumatic Pocket Hole Machine? I have the Foreman in a 2 car garage shop that I somewhat run a custom cabinet shop out of along with remodeling. My Foreman is going on Facebook as soon as I get the Rebel. Atleast I am hoping. Space is a problem for me and at the moment I have to put the Foreman on a bench which makes big panels a difficult to impossible. Would love a Castle TSM-12 but similar space problems at the moment. Each year I am going to build a new miter stand in a different location to house one of these at the correct height but you know how that goes. But back to the Foreman, I habe trouble keeping the fence in line during use. In conclusion I would agree with you if you have the pneumatic version but if you have the Foreman I wonder what you know that I don't as I dread using mine. Mean that with all sincerity. Now does anyone know when this is for sale, I am building a murphy bed with bookcase and cabinets on each side right now. I am sure I will get an email saying its available right after I assemble everything.

I have the earlier version of the Kreg front handle unit K3, I think. I set it up in a permanent location with long side supports and a drill "holster" made from PVC conduit. Use the PDC for drilling holes. Because I have the long supports it is easy to stand some pretty big panels on it. The vac suction through the DC port even helps hold the piece upright while I hit the clamp handle. It's positioned to make use of the space in front of the miter saw fence / extensions. The pocket hole jig material supports are made from some left over gray Trex.

I can drill them really fast with this set up. Partly because it is easy to slide the panels along. I don't lift it out between holes. Drilling with one hand working the clamp and sliding the panel with the other. Start at one end, drill, unclamp, slide, clamp drill, repeat.

But for really large pieces that new unit will be great compared to fiddling with clamps etc.

Seth
 

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