Kreg square drive bits in Centro-tec chuck

[rljatl]

Maybe I am missing something, but it seems to me that all Festool would have to do is make a Centrotec type chuck that works with the standard bits used in N.A.   No adapter for the current Centrotec chuck.  Just a new Centrotec look alike chuck (maybe a different color) that works for N.A. bits.  

I can almost guarantee it won't happen. The standard for US is not really a standard once you get past the flats and Festool has determined the flats to be not accurate enought to assure the tool will rotate true enough for the tools they offer as Centrotec (think drills). The Centrotec drives off the flats but is guided by the diameter above the flats. This is how they get the tools to run true. The ball detent tools are all over the map as far as that area of the tool is concerned. They wanted to improve the concept and they did. If they accomodate the old design they give up the improvements.

Shouldn't it be up to the consumer to decide if the 1/4" standard is good enough for their use?  After all, we are using it anyway.  Festool would sell a lot more drills in N.A. if they made a Centrotec type chuck that accepts the N.A. standard.  The increase in sales would more than offset any development cost.

 

[campbellcraft]

I think the consumer should decide. They have the option of buying a different drill, as a number of those on this site have done. I like the Concentric system better than the Instybit adapter I use with my Dewalt drills.

 

[sancho57]

the do make a adapter
http://www.bobmarinosbesttools.com/bit-holder-bh-60-ce-magnetic/p/492539/

 

[fdengel]

Lots of companies make "quick change" adaptors that can go into a regular drill chuck to accept the 1/4" hex shank bits - and they will fit just fine into the Festool chuck (the other one that comes standard with every drill they sell).

If you don't like Centrotec - don't use it - and you are still no worse off than you would be with a drill from any other company.

This is an additional option, not something you are forced to use when you work with a Festool drill.

Personally, I have a set of the square bits from Atlas, and I use the regular chuck for the drill bit that came with the Kreg Jig - I can swap the chucks off the drill probably faster than I could have previously swapped the bits in the quick change adaptors...  I just leave the bits in the chucks when I'm doing lots of pocket holes...

 

[greg mann]

That attitude just seems ridiculous.  Of course the regular 1/4" bits are the world wide standard.  What else is there?  Centrotec?  Centrotec probably makes up less than 0.01% of all bits manufactured world wide.  We are not asking for a chuck that performs as well as centrotec -we just want a chuck that works as well as every other 1/4" driver.  The consensus here is that the current 1/4" Centrotec bit adapter is crap.

And if that's not possible, at the very least produce all of the bit types for Centrotec, and not just what Festool deems "worthy".

I am not sure ifit is my attitude or Festool's that you think is ridiculous. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt since I am only surmising what I believe to be the logic on their part and I should't bejudged too harshly for speculating. Having said that I believe Fdengle has made the best point. If you want to use ball detents just chuck them up inthe drill chuck in the same manner you wouldneed to do with everyone else's tools. You are no further behind anyone else. The only tools out there that readily accomodate the ball detent are the impact drivers so basically the complaint is that Festool has a system that is very similar to a lesser quality system that no other drill maker has accommodated but is used directly only in another class of tool. I don't really see why Festool should be taken to task for developing a better version and incorporating it into elegant use on their drills, something no one else has come close to doing.

 

[peter halle]

Always surprised at the emotion expressed when it comes to square drive bits or any other 1/4" shank bits integrating somehow into the Festool system.  They are just bits aren't they?

You want to use 1/4 bits, pull everything off and insert into the drill shaft.  You want to use an extension?  Festool supplies one with every drill.  Want a locking extension?  Festool sells those too.  Want specialty bits like the long length #2 robertson / square drive?  They are available in the aftermarket.

Peter

 

[TelcoRandy]

I'm not surprised by it, people want to be able to use standard bits too. Granted, Festool isn't going to change, we'll have to wait for a 3rd party to invent another chuck.

 

[RONWEN]

If anyone really cares, read Deming's "The Fourteen Points" and "The Seven Deadly Diseases" and you will understand why US manufacturing went off shore.

America's manufacturing hasn't gone off shore.

http://business.time.com/2011/03/10/can-china-compete-with-american-manufacturing/

So you have read Deming book? or are you just posted a reaction link to a word phrase? If you read the book I would enjoy hearing what points that Deming makes that you find/think are not true or you just disagree with. I grew up in a town where a High end washing machine company was ...well it got bought and a town of 20,000 dropped to 11,000 when the manufacturing was sent off shore. So jobs are in fact going off shore... Thank goodness they haven't all gone.

I don't want to get political here as that is not what Fog is about.

Cheers,
Steve

You are correct Steve.  In the early 50's Edwards Deming took his teaching & 14 points to Japan -- they grabbed onto to and improved upon it and turned their manufacturing around to be premiere in the world.  Most companies around the world model after the Toyota Production System including U.S. auto & manufacturing companies.  Through the 70's, 80's and 90's we saw the U.S. machine tool industry fall to pieces with dozens simply disappearing.  It was the same with the U.S. tool & die industry. 
Thankfully there is a lot of U.S. manufacturing turning around but still just a smidgen (where have I heard that word?[smile]) of what it used to be.

 

[jacko9]

If anyone really cares, read Deming's "The Fourteen Points" and "The Seven Deadly Diseases" and you will understand why US manufacturing went off shore.

America's manufacturing hasn't gone off shore.

http://business.time.com/2011/03/10/can-china-compete-with-american-manufacturing/

So you have read Deming book? or are you just posted a reaction link to a word phrase? If you read the book I would enjoy hearing what points that Deming makes that you find/think are not true or you just disagree with. I grew up in a town where a High end washing machine company was ...well it got bought and a town of 20,000 dropped to 11,000 when the manufacturing was sent off shore. So jobs are in fact going off shore... Thank goodness they haven't all gone.

I don't want to get political here as that is not what Fog is about.

Cheers,
Steve

You are correct Steve.  In the early 50's Edwards Deming took his teaching & 14 points to Japan -- they grabbed onto to and improved upon it and turned their manufacturing around to be premiere in the world.  Most companies around the world model after the Toyota Production System including U.S. auto & manufacturing companies.  Through the 70's, 80's and 90's we saw the U.S. machine tool industry fall to pieces with dozens simply disappearing.  It was the same with the U.S. tool & die industry. 
Thankfully there is a lot of U.S. manufacturing turning around but still just a smidgen (where have I heard that word?[smile]) of what it used to be.

I had the pleasure of attending a 5 day workshop headed by Edward Deming about 20 years ago and I would any of you to read some of his works.

Jack

 

[amt]

That attitude just seems ridiculous.  Of course the regular 1/4" bits are the world wide standard.  What else is there?  Centrotec?  Centrotec probably makes up less than 0.01% of all bits manufactured world wide.  We are not asking for a chuck that performs as well as centrotec -we just want a chuck that works as well as every other 1/4" driver.  The consensus here is that the current 1/4" Centrotec bit adapter is crap.

And if that's not possible, at the very least produce all of the bit types for Centrotec, and not just what Festool deems "worthy".

I am not sure ifit is my attitude or Festool's that you think is ridiculous.

It was the assertion below that I found ridiculous:

The standard for US is not really a standard

How is it not really a standard when it is used universally by nearly every single maker of drivers in the world?

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt since I am only surmising what I believe to be the logic on their part and I should't bejudged too harshly for speculating. Having said that I believe Fdengle has made the best point. If you want to use ball detents just chuck them up inthe drill chuck in the same manner you would need to do with everyone else's tools. You are no further behind anyone else. The only tools out there that readily accomodate the ball detent are the impact drivers so basically the complaint is that Festool has a system that is very similar to a lesser quality system that no other drill maker has accommodated but is used directly only in another class of tool.

My 10 year old B&D has a quick change chuck, and there are other drivers that offer it today:
http://www.feinus.com/en_us/fastening/cordless-drill-drivers/ascm-14-qx-0307695/
http://www.toolstop.co.uk/metabo-launches-brushless-drills-exclusive-a1319

So, no, you are in fact further behind with a Festool driver.

I don't really see why Festool should be taken to task for developing a better version and incorporating it into elegant use on their drills, something no one else has come close to doing.

I have no problem with Festool developing a better solution.  In fact, I really like the design they have.  I simply want -more- centrotec.  If a company is going to make a better design, -fully- commit to it.  Wouldn't everyone here want to have a complete system?  And if Festool can't do that, shouldn't we have a convenient, reliable, and cost effective way to use the current 1/4" standard?  The only real work-around I see is to have 2 keyless drill chucks, one for drill bits, one dedicated to a quality ball detent adapter (not Festool's), and then the Centrotec chuck for centrotec bits.

 

[greg mann]

Everyone refers to the 1/4 ball drive as a standard. There are a multitude of companies that mke ball detent tools and they are all basically the same, but each manufacturer has their own tolerances and they overlap some but effectively expand the tolerance zone when taken in total. In addition, once you get past the flats the diameters of the tools are all ocer the map. Thie cylindrical diameter above the flats and between the flats are what pilots the Centrotec tools. These are not controlled between manufacturers to an adequate level, a close enough tolerance (a standard) to be used effectively for piloting the tool. I stand by my statement. These tools are made to work interchangeably but every maker picks his own tolerance range:a quasi standard. Universal use implies a 'standard' but it does not guarantee tools are made to a universal set of tolerances. Futhermore, even if there is, say, an ANSI standard for the ball detent it may be deficient to accomplish a quality fit acrass all desired uses. Maybe it needs an enhanced standard'. The same is true of the PC guide bushing: It is referred to as the "industry standard" but there are no ironclad tolerances to which all makers adhere. That is why some folks have trouble with parts being too loose or too tight.