KS60 - We pay more to cover a design error.

[Distinctive Interiors]

Putting the "what should have been included in the price of the machine" aspect of this saw to one side for a minute, I got to try out the KS60 today!!!!

I had a Festool End User Manager come to see me today to demonstrate another Festool tool. He had the 240volt KS60 and the UG Adaptor Base unit with him so he set it up for me and I got to try a few trial cuts on some 75mm x 25mm soft wood.

It is certainly a quality bit of kit, as we would expect! Easy to carry around and set up (I had it set up on my MFT3).

I dont know if I would find a use for this smaller machine as I have the Kapex 120, but it is certainly more portable than its bigger brother and the cutting capacity is good considering it is a smaller saw and has a smaller blade. We only had it set up with a 27mm hose rather than the 36mm hose, but the dust extraction was also similar to its big brother.

I did'nt get to use it extensively, but my first impression is, its very good!!!!

Tim.

 

[mkasdin]

i would think for most job site work the smaller saw would be a plus and would handle the majority of work. I don't know why people have trouble with their larger kapex 120, but I'm guessing they don't let the blade get up to speed and thus have issues in the past. I always get the blades up to speed and then slowly let the blade down. I really, really like my fingers, so every time i pull the trigger i look at the path of travel.

 

[Scorpion]

"if they don't care about the adapter and making the saw the same height as the SYS1, maybe we should offer it separately, reduce the price of the saw, and save them a few bucks?!"

Seems like some just jump to corporate greed as the intent.

Can you offer a logical explanation as to why these small plastic parts would cost AUS$60 / €35 / $35 while we see products with this amount of plastic in the stores for $1-$2 and you know both the manufacturer and the seller still make a profit?

[attachimg=1]

My point was lost probably due to my poor delivery.

My point was this - had they just came out with the 60 at a price $35 higher than what they did AND included the foot kit, complainers wouldn't have complained as much about having to also pay for the foot kit because it was included. 

Ironically many are going to complain about the cost of the saw anyway so making it more expensive and including the damn feet woulda prevented the additional complaining.

Yet from a marketing point of view, this thread is creating a bunch of discussions on a barely released product.  A volume of attention like this is difficult to pay for and we're doing the worm (the forum is a cheap marketing avenue if you ask me). 

So I'm in the fence...maybe it makes sense to separate the feet from the saw, make you pay extra for them, and create a distraction for you to complain about since most of the customer base is going to view as "petty dribble by people who are likely gonna just buy them anyway like the rest of Festool Accessories".

Hey Festool, I get you and will buy the feet even if I don't by the saw.  Please make the feet AINA. 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Harry1561]

All the talk about the KS60,  has anyone actually purchased one yet? I'm waiting for my local dealer to get one in so l can see it in the real world before pulling the trigger  8)

 

[semenza]

All the talk about the KS60,  has anyone actually purchased one yet? I'm waiting for my local dealer to get one in so l can see it in the real world before pulling the trigger  8)

Yes, see this topic .....................  http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tool-reviews/ks60-comments-from-an-owner/

Seth

 

[semenza]

Discussion on vertical vs horizontal handle and deflection is here .......................http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tools-accessories/kapex-vertical-handle/

Seth

 

[bobfog]

All the talk about the KS60,  has anyone actually purchased one yet? I'm waiting for my local dealer to get one in so l can see it in the real world before pulling the trigger  8)

Yes, see this topic .....................  http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tool-reviews/ks60-comments-from-an-owner/

Seth

I think Festool need to fire they're mitre saw team and maybe headhunt some people from Bosch, Makita, Dewalt, etc who know how to do it right.

 

[Phil Beckley]

All the talk about the KS60,  has anyone actually purchased one yet? I'm waiting for my local dealer to get one in so l can see it in the real world before pulling the trigger  8)

Yes, see this topic .....................  http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tool-reviews/ks60-comments-from-an-owner/

Seth

I think Festool need to fire they're mitre saw team and maybe headhunt some people from Bosch, Makita, Dewalt, etc who know how to do it right.

.....a little harsh Bobfog  [wink]
rg
Phil

 

[mrboult]

[attachimg=1]

 

[Cheese]

[attachimg=1]

Nice comparison photo. I've never considered the Kapex to be a large saw, but it makes the KS 60 appear to be miniature.

 

[semenza]

That does loo like it would be easier to carry around.

Seth

 

[joiner1970]

warren [member=8822]toolfest.co.uk[/member] just stuck photos of some ks60's on their Facebook so maybe he might do one of his videos

 

[toolfest.co.uk]

When we get some more in, all those that arrived have gone straight out to customers. Didn't even get a peek.

W

 

[Laminator]

Cordless would have to be a winner!

 

[pingvinlakrits]

Ok guys, I decided to devote a Bonus check towards the Kapex KS60 after all. So, I got it "for free" which made me choose it over the Metabo KGS 72 Xact SYM I was eyeballing - and which arguably would have been more bang for the buck had the money actually drained my wallet. 

I figured that if I don't like it it should be really easy to sell. If it turns out a Lemon I am under warranty and covered so I am not worried either way - just hoping it has been properly calibrate at the factory...

I have yet to even fire it up as I haven't been out of the workshop and bought the Kapex for field duty. I opted for the feet so I can throw down a SYS I for support but not the UG cart as I tend to like things on the light side and I have a stand for my other SCMS - no need for another one.

Only thing I have noticed so far is that IT IS RATHER HEAVY  [eek] which is what I voiced earlier in this thread. It is around five kg / 11 lbs heavier than my Makita I usually lug around and I think it is a bit of a chore carrying it in one hand for a longer walk due to the size of the saw. I look forward to putting it to use though.  [smile]

 

[charley1968]

Grattis!

 

[pingvinlakrits]

Du menar Gratis?  [big grin]

We'll see, I am a little more convinced than I am concerned after playing with it a little. I will post my findings if there is any interest and if anyone else does not beat me to it. I might have some crown moulding (molding for some) that needs to get done but I am not sure it will happen anytime soon.
 
I am quite sure I would not have considered the KS60 at all if I had to pay full price for it. Not even for a cordless one.

 

[Timtool]

I'm a bit baffled by some comments in this thread, who the hell here is going to buy the basic version with no feet, laser or angle finder?
Nobody, end of discussion. They have to artificially blow up the price of these elements to make a big enough value difference between the basic and set version. Just like the KS120 and 88.

There is a very substantial difference in weight and size between the 120 and 60, giving the 60 the giant base of the 120 just so it would fit on the UG or be as high as a systainer is just plain stupid if you ask me. That would off put way more potential buyers.

Here you have a very decent medium miter saw at a rather affordable price (in Europe at least), and some start complaining about features no other saw of this type has any way. At least Festool made adapters, so really where is the problem?

 

[antss]

The problem Tim is that Festool is held to a higher standard.  Much of it is because of their pricing, but some is due to their own marketing. 

Being lighter than their other saw is nice , but when you say it's a light saw I'm your marketing and it's not lighter than competitors - that's a legitimate complaint to me.

When the 120 can use a SYS1 as a material rest and marketing touts it as a feature  -but- your new saw doesn't unless some feet are purchased .  Well , call me cynical , but to me that's being disengenious to your customers -or- the project manager totally missed the boat during the design phase.  And please don't tell me it wasn't made taller to save weight.  A first year engineer could figure out the dilemma in short order.

The real issue is that on one hand FT claims to be better and more highly designed than X brand , but then seemingly has to have band aids for some of their product that customers identify right away.  I've asked this before , but don't you guys beta test this stuff before production?  And if so, with who?

 

[Scorpion]

[attachimg=1]

Wonder why they chose to hang the motor to the left on the 60 when on the 120 it's to the right?

What are the dials on the feet of the 60?  Looks like locks (maybe to attach to a stand) or for leveling.  I'll put my money on locks.

Wonder why they didn't include bosses in the design so they could incorporate the material clamps like they include on the 120?  Usually a manufacturer takes every advantage to leverage an existing accessory when they can.

The head lock is in a different place.  On the 120 it's actuated by the thumb.  The 60 appears to be actuated by the heal of the hand.  Is that true or is the picture?