lead paint/hepa vacs/multi-use

Hi!

I've been trying to get information on the decontamination process from all the sources I frequently interact on/ with. De nada, so far.

Every manufacturer has the part about "decontamination should be left to a certified professional operating in a specialized/ dedicated work area" in their corresponding manuals.

Consensus is that contamination goes far beyond the bag/filter and main filter.

Some manufacturers ask to seal the vacuum in a plastic bag when you send it for repair, and have documentation of what dust you extracted available outside of that bag. Which makes total sense.

But then again, to actually work on that vacuum, they would need to have that specialized/ dedicated work area - and instructions on how to go about decontamination. Why such delicate information can't be found is beyond me.

But I think it lies within the nature of the whole "leave it to the pros" mantra.

A pro will (hopefully) have dedicated vacuums for this, and others for the other stuff. No decontamination required. If a repair is needed, it will be packaged as laid out in the manual (hopefully) - and the manufacturer will deal with it in accordance to all applicable rules and standards (hopefully) that are not meant to be known to us mere/ordinary mortals.

However the truth is probably:

Most pros don't care, use the vacuums as they see fit as long as there is no inspector present, if it at some point breaks it ends up with regular trash never to be seen again. Manufacturers probably don't even attempt a repair, they simply send a new extractor as long as it is within warranty and dispose it according to regulations/law (hopefully) - end of story.

Call me pessimistic, I don't think that "decontamination" is a real option if you want to do it 100% right. I couldn't even find a single company offering such services.

I even checked the technical rules/regulations in place in Germany on how to handle abestos/contamination/de-contamination. Not a single word on how to decontaminate tools. It's probably not feasible economically/ or simply not wanted at all.

Great business model for sure, if you have force enough people "playing" along.

Yes, I'm a little ticked off right now. ;) But just a little, that's life.  [big grin]

Kind regards,
Oliver
 
The lack of information on how to clean equipment is frustrating but the cleaning process is not rocket science. Surely we can think it through and come up with a procedure. Here is an initial outline.

To clean contaminated equipment you need a negative air pressure room equipped with a slop sink.

Create the negative air pressure with another Hepa vac positioned outside the room pulling the room air  out.  [wink]

The work vac would ideally be completely disassembled and the plastic parts (all the non-electrical parts) washed and rinsed. The electrical parts would be blasted with compressed air (a little at a time to maintain negative pressure in the room) then further cleaned with disposable wipes.

If you want to be especially clean you can make another negative pressure room within or upstream of the main n.p. room to store clean parts until reassembly.

It seems like you could skip the complete disassembly and just blast hi pressure air into every possible opening and then wipe every surface that is possible to touch. How could any contaminant escape or be reached in normal use after such a cleaning?

That’s a start, fill in the blanks or post corrections/faults.

But too the op’s original concerns I’d explore consolidation rather than removal, and avoid the testing kettle of worms.
 
I'd say you need to start the journey with a white (definitely not contaminated) room, a room to switch in and out PPE, bring the cleaned and bagged equipment/parts into, and the working area. Working area is negative pressure. Room two needs to be able to have air exchanged.

From what I've read, the tools would have to be completely dismantled as this stuff can go everywhere. I'd say a lot of wet wipes and some typical alcohol based cleaning solvent for the circuit boards that will air out/dry without residue.

Kind regards,
Oliver
 
Well, it sounds like a 'real' decontamination of a vacuum would be impractical for a homeowner with limited space.  I would need a second hepa vac, which could make the need to decontaminate a bit moot.  :-)

Oliver, I think you are probably correct.  Around here, most contractors use Rigid shop vacs and probably don't give it much thought beyond that (at least from what I've seen). There's a couple people I know of who are much more meticulous and mindful of these things, but the level of work they are doing isn't appropriate for a house I'd like to sell soon.

So then, my next question is, what does it mean if a vacuum is contaminated? When using a hepa vac, you vacuum up lead waste, then you continue to vacuum/wet wipe/vacuum again as part of the cleanup (at least based on the leadsafe practice standards).  At this point, most of the poly sheeting is gone and you're using the vacuum in a presumably enclosed interior space. This seems to be standard practice, and a lot of people would wnt a prize for putting plastic down to begin with  [big grin].

I have to assume the same is true for a homeowner who is dealing with lead issues but isn't in a position to abate or encapsulate. They are advised to use a hepa vacuum, in some cases borrowing one from a govt program, and not really guided to take much steps beyond that.

It seems like on some level, a vac that has been used for lead should continue to perform it's HEPA cleaning function completely adequately  (assuming all seals are in tact).  I can't imagine using the vac w/o a hepa filter, though. I could see where lead dust could land on/stick to the exterior of the vac, but that should be cleanable, at least to a standard that would be relatively 'safe'.  I hope that's true, because I've used the vacuum for a lot of things over the past five years that I would prefer remain out of my lungs/blood.

[member=297]Michael Kellough[/member], are you referring to encapsulation?  I would need to do a fair bit of work to prep, most of which would involve removing poorly applied latex paint that is peeling and flaking off of the existing surfaces.  The P/O had a crew apply behr paint+primer over almost every surface in the house, it looks like it was sprayed w/ no prep and no backrolling.  I've repainted most of the place, but the porch had been functioning like a workshop/lumber storage for a few years.

 
Yes, encapsulate, with Anchorseal (kidding).

However, just read that you are concerned with about 70 square feet. That’s only a day of work using a small hand scraper and being extremely careful.

I’d tape plastic around the area and don all the appropriate PPE and hold the Hepa vac nozzle (with a brush head) in one hand and a thin sharp putty knife in the other and go at it.

Assuming there are layers of paint on top of old lead paint that is losing it’s grip, the stuff you have to worry about is the dusty surface that is left behind when the chip comes off. Scrub that with the vac brush and move on to the next chip. I’d probably scrub with some coarse Scotch Brite and vac as well and rather than SimpleGreen I’d wipe with denatured alcohol. I worry about anything other than alcohol reducing adhesion of the new coating.
 
Hi!

The vacuum/main filter will perform like before until saturated - "contaminated" or not. It will keep all it can keep from being distributed in the air, what it can't keep will go through no matter what.

To get real: Use a filter bag, dispose that properly/ in accordance with applicable law(s) and clean the vacuum with wet wipes. Bag the hose and tape it shut/ seal it. Either keep the hose sealed for more lead paint work later on, or dispose with the filter bag. Remember that you used it for lead paint, when at some point you exchange the main/hepa filter and again dispose it as one should. (If you feel safer, you can of course exchange the main/hepa filter too, and dispose the contaminated one immediately.) Wear PPE and be done with it. I think that is reasonable and leaves you with an eased mind - you have done everything thoroughly and the best you could.

Honestly, that's what I would do - after trying to understand all the theoretical procedures involved set out by technical rules and guidelines regarding high risk dust.

What I would actually really & only, worry the most about is the hose and attachments. That will be full of, in your case, lead dust. And leaving it attached to the vacuum won't clean it - not even over time. So I'd probably bag that and dispose it, or leave it bagged for lead dust extraction only. (Only bag/un-bag when wearing PPE ...)

I recently cleaned the (not high risk dust contaminated) hoses of my vacs with pressured air, the amount of dust coming out of the hoses is still "incredible".

Kind regards,
Oliver
 
six-point socket II said:
I recently cleaned the (not high risk dust contaminated) hoses of my vacs with pressured air, the amount of dust coming out of the hoses is still "incredible".
Click to expand...

Better to simply run water through them. When I clean a hose, I fill the sink or a 20 L bucket with water and soap and let it soak over night.
 
Yes, definitely MUCH better idea! I feel really stupid right now for not thinking of that. Thanks Alex, will do it like that next time!!!

Kind regards,
Oliver
 
First, I want to thank everyone who has participated in this thread.  It's helpful to be able to think through some of these things w/ others, who are bringing perspectives and experience that I definitely don't have.  I've found it very constructive and has helped avoid falling into the trap of perseveration (at least, somewhat..) :-)

It sounds like I could get by with the Fein Turbo II for the work, but it would be optimal to dedicate hoses/attachments for lead work.  The perspective seems to be that I could continue to use the vac for other work, but need to 1) keep the hepa filter attached 2) clean it carefully and 3) take precautions when switching out bags/disposing of the hepa filter, as they are going to be points of higher risk of exposure.

I think I had taken the simple green prompt from painttalk or somewhere like that, where someone said that it didn't interfere with finishes adhering.  Another person mentioned wiping up w/ Ammonia.  Only issue there is I might need to put a vapor cartridge on my mask.  :-)  I'm not sure whether there is any shellac layers, but I could see that getting messy.  Maybe it doesn't matter if it's just a wipe down.

[member=5277]Alex[/member] I assume you are just washing your hose for sanitation - not to remove lead/asbestos dust?

 
mrFinpgh said:
[member=5277]Alex[/member] I assume you are just washing your hose for sanitation - not to remove lead/asbestos dust?
Click to expand...

Yes, for sanitation. Removing lead and asbestos dust also falls under that header.

I would never dream of sucking up asbestos with my vac though, that's seriously dangerous stuff which I leave to the specialists.

I mostly leave lead paint as it is and paint over it. I am not that bothered by lead paint, it is nowhere near the danger level of asbestos. And I encounter it rarely.
 
I wanna pass on some information.

The unthinkable happened, Starmix (yes, the dust extractor manufacturer) answered in my thread on that German tool forum. They explained a bit of the laws/regulation/rules, but most importantly:

They said they outsource the maintenance and repair of class H vacs to a company just 35 miles away from me.
https://asup.info/service/gefahrstoff-und-industriesauger/

This roughly translates to: "Maintenance on high risk dust extractors and industrially used dust extractors"

And they use the appropriate black/white area and multiple rooms approach.

They are pretty upfront about performed checks and costs as well, here's a corresponding form. (Sadly in German, sorry.)
https://asup.info/serviceauftrag

Kind regards,
Oliver
 
I mostly leave lead paint as it is and paint over it. I am not that bothered by lead paint, it is nowhere near the danger level of asbestos. And I encounter it rarely.
Click to expand...

Interesting. If I had the option to paint over it, I probably would.. but the level of peeling from the prior owner's realtors painters means I am going to have to scrape quite a lot.
 
six-point socket II said:
The unthinkable happened, Starmix (yes, the dust extractor manufacturer) answered in my thread on that German tool forum. They explained a bit of the laws/regulation/rules, but most importantly:

...
https://asup.info/serviceauftrag
Click to expand...

Wow, thank you for following up with this.  Looks like they want € 84.00 per hour to clean the vac, which is separate from the actual decontamination?

In some ways, it seems like it would be more efficient to get a dedicated hepa vac.  Although from everything I've gathered, the main issue/concern is contaminating the accessories/exterior/wheels.

I was reading a discussion on another forum and someone mentioned that a sub kept failing their clearance tests because the wheels of the vacuum were not cleaned well and left dust on the floors.

Right now, I'm kind of on hold with all of the lead concerns.  For one, it's way too hot to be out there in a tyvek suit and mask and gloves.  Also, I am still working to obtain an XRF test on the exterior to see what's really going on.  The assessor usually does bigger jobs, so they need to see how they could bill this.

 
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