Light bulbs keep going bad

[kevinculle]

About a month ago I installed Armacost under cabinet LED puck lights in the kitchen of our new home.  The lights are driven by an Armacost power supply that is fed from a LED compatible wifi controlled dimmer made by Kasa and available on Amazon.  The dimming action is smooth, continuous and flicker free. 

 

[Cheese]

You missed the flicker and the fact that it's impossible to truly dim LEDs.

Well this rather reminds me of the difference in technologies between the Flathead Ford and the newly developed small block Chevy engine in the mid 50's. At the time the flathead was king (enter the incandescent light bulb) and the small block Chevy engine was the challenger (enter the LED lightbulb). Everyone hailed the flathead Ford and all of its superior qualities until of course the small block Chevy came around and blew the flathead into the weeds. It took about 20 years and there are probably several folks to this day, that have Flathead Ford engraved on their head stones, they will always be the true believers, but the outcome was inevitable...the best technology of the time superseded the best technology of 30 years prior.
This same situation exists with incandescent vs LED's, today. Give it some time, Thomas Edison started the light bulb thing in 1879...they've had 120 years to perfect it. The LED light thing was started in the 60's...give it some time, it will come around.

And no, I didn't miss the flicker issue, instead I decided to use the correct dimmer.

 

[AstroKeith]

There does seem to be an awful lot of deep rooted opinion being let out here!

Appropriate LEDs and appropriate LED dimmers can dim from 5% to 100%.
On the whole LEDs create less electrical noise as the currents are so much smaller than for incandescent. Try measuring an incandescent bulb dimmer! Conducted and emitted electrical and RF noise for metres.
Good dimmers switch at frequencies that no one has shown are a problem. If they are - dont look at TVs, computers, phones, etc.
Increasingly we are using filament LED lamps. These dont have any drive electronics in the lamp and are coated with phosphor which almost eliminates any high frequency flicker of the emitted light if dimmed.

Or course there is a lot of cheap rubbish out there. Don't buy it and dont let it shape your overall opinions.

 

[Packard]

In my studio (photography) lights, the modelling light is incandescent (and expensive).  If I get my fingerprints on the bulb it will burn out in just hours.  The fingerprint actually etches the surface of the glass.

Try replacing the bulbs using either gloves, or by holding a piece of fabric or paper to protect the bulb from your fingerprints.  If you do touch it, then wipe the bulb immediately with rubbing alcohol. 

This holds true for halogen bulbs in car headlights.
https://www.lightingcompany.co.uk/i...h-halogen-capsule-bulbs-with-your-fingers-i98

IS IT TRUE YOU SHOULD NOT TOUCH HALOGEN CAPSULE BULBS WITH YOUR FINGERS?

 

[Mike Goetzke]

When we remodeled our kitchen about 9 years ago I installed 8 can lights I installed the fluorescent bulbs because the LEDs were very costly at the time. When the price dropped a bit I bought LED's. Like the OP'er I had early failures. Issue for me was the technology was moving so fast you couldn't get exact look replacements. I'm probably on my third set of lights and they seem much more reliable. The electronics on the original set had big cast heat sinks which seem to have disappeared on the newer/cheaper ones. I too have found for many applications the LED's don't last as long as expected. If you read the fine print there are many restrictions on achieving posted life. I think the LED's themselves last forever but not the electronics imbedded in the bulb don't, but, my experience has been they are getting much better as time goes on.

One other note - I'm just the handyman around the house but the cans for these lights have many different ratings. Some can be insulated from above and some can't. Some are designed to provide good air circulation and some are not.

 

[serge0n]

Further, LEDs can be either at a 100% brightness or at a 0% brightness, you can't dim them. But you can simulate the effect by keeping them turned off 75% of the time and on 25% of the time, switching them on and off very rapidly (75% dimmed). The problem with dimming LEDs is that a cheap LED driver which is needed to achieve this effect will produce a lot more flicker than even a cheap LED bulb at all levels of brightness, even when you turn it all the way up. And once again, good LED dimmers are hard to find.
Bulbs that heat up filament to produce light can be easily dimmed by reducing voltage.

The above puzzles me as I have recently installed LED downlights with leading edge dimmers on them and they appear to dim in exactly the way I would have expected and in the same manner that incadescent globes act.

It's an illusion. Good drivers can produce a very good illusion of dimming with no noticeable flicker, but fundamentally LEDs are not dimmable, they only have 2 states - on and off. If you take a very high speed camera (10,000 FPS? I'm speculating here) you will detect the rapid on/off action when you dim your lights.

 

[serge0n]

About a month ago I installed Armacost under cabinet LED puck lights in the kitchen of our new home.  The lights are driven by an Armacost power supply that is fed from a LED compatible wifi controlled dimmer made by Kasa and available on Amazon.  The dimming action is smooth, continuous and flicker free.

Armacost makes very good LEDs and drivers. Another company is Waveform Lightning. Both produce dimmers and bulbs with acceptable (not noticeable) flicker levels. I have Armacost shop lights (discontinued) that have great flicker levels.
Problem is Armacost doesn't produce light bulbs and Waveform's bulbs are not dimmable or not bright enough (they max out at ~850 lm).

 

[serge0n]

You missed the flicker and the fact that it's impossible to truly dim LEDs.

This same situation exists with incandescent vs LED's, today. Give it some time, Thomas Edison started the light bulb thing in 1879...they've had 120 years to perfect it. The LED light thing was started in the 60's...give it some time, it will come around.

Flicker issues may be resolved in the future, I'm hopeful. But I think LEDs are inherently flawed when it comes to dimming - when a light emitter can only have on or off state that limits your dimming options. I hope bioluminescence tech sees significant progress in the next decade or two and a new type of emitter will be produced that is better than LEDs.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not clinging to incandescent, but my LED journey has been quite frustrating thus far. I still can't find a good LED can light or a dimmable light bulb that wouldn't flicker.

And no, I didn't miss the flicker issue, instead I decided to use the correct dimmer.

That's the thing, what IS the correct dimmer? How did you find it? I'm using Lutron's Casseta dimmers for my kitchen, dining and living room lights and I wouldn't describe the dimming effect as "smooth". It used to be very smooth when I had incandescent bulbs, but now some bulbs work and dim ok, others have flicker detectable in peripheral vision.
Getting a good LED driver for strips and puck lights is not a problem - Armacost sells them, but getting something acceptable for light bulbs is problematic.

 

[AlexThePalex]

I have not found a good dimmer with a good LED combination either.  Problem is, Leds don't dim on a continuous path like incandescent does. They dim in steps instead, and when you go all the way down to the bottom, incandescent can be dialed in very finely, whereas a led lamp just goes out completely instead of going to that very low light I want.

 

[Packard]

Also, LEDs dim to about 40% of the total brightness.  Incandescent bulbs can go down to 5 - 7%.  That information was from Lutron who I contacted when I wanted to dim my LEDs. 

I plugged my studio strobes (photography) into a wall outlet that had a dimmer on it.  I accidently did not have it on full power.  That cost me $600.00 in repairs.  Some devices do not like dimmers.

 

[Cheese]

1. Don't get me wrong, I'm not clinging to incandescent, but my LED journey has been quite frustrating thus far. I still can't find a good LED can light or a dimmable light bulb that wouldn't flicker.

2. That's the thing, what IS the correct dimmer?

1. My only advantage is that I started with converting an outside LED solar system to 12 vdc about 15 years ago. So I've had at least 15 years to curse and internally vent my frustration with LED lighting. Back then, all LED's were the small 5 mm solder mount, bullet style and the quality control was horrendous. If you burned out LED's the soldering iron was your only friend.

So, judging by those standards, the current LED situation is a piece of cake.  [smile]  It can be frustrating so that's one of the reasons I've authored a couple of LED threads on the FOG trying to shorten the learning curve for installations.

2. I've had really good luck with Insteon dimmers. I have NOT had good results using Lutron Diva or Maestro although they've recently come out with LED+ versions. I've also had issues with Lightolier controllers. 

 

[AstroKeith]

When I started installing quality RGBWW strip LEDs with controllers, I discovered it is possible to perfectly dim LEDs, but it comes at a price (ps: the theatre industry wouldnt put up with poor control and they have long gone LED),

For single LED lamps i use a programmable LED dimmer module. This enables the dimmer to be set for 100% and whatever minimum the user wants. Once programmed the dimmer provides a good  linear ramp between the two.

This is a level of complexity that we didnt need to bother with using incandescent lamps. I understand the need comes from the uncontrolled variation in LED forward voltages and efficiencies from lamp to lamp.

Perhaps we are also trying to recreate an incandescent lamp which dosent match what the LED technology is more suited to do. As I remodel/redecorate our rooms I have changed  the lighting to use LED strips in 'indirect' settings. This lights the room, without obvious lamps. Especially good for work areas, tv rooms, bedrooms, etc. I can generate a much more even lighting distribution, no glare and adjust the brightness and colour to suit the room, task or time of day. To have done this with incandescent would have been very difficult and much more expensive.

At least in the UK & Europe we have no choice - the efficiency of LEDs is deemed necessary. (ps: 25% of all US electrical energy goes into lighting)

 

[Cheese]

As I remodel/redecorate our rooms I have changed  the lighting to use LED strips in 'indirect' settings. This lights the room, without obvious lamps. Especially good for work areas, tv rooms, bedrooms, etc. I can generate a much more even lighting distribution, no glare and adjust the brightness and colour to suit the room, task or time of day. To have done this with incandescent would have been very difficult and much more expensive.

FWIW...for strip lighting applications I really like using this product from Diode LED. It's a driver and dimmer in one unit that fits inside a single electrical box. I installed one in the kitchen 4 years ago with under cabinet lighting and it's been flawless. It probably gets turned on & off 6-8 times every day.
https://www.diodeled.com/switchex.html

[attachimg=1]

 

[Bob D.]

I replaced some fluorescent troffers in my basement suspended ceiling a couple years ago.
They are 2x2 foot LED dimmable flat panels I got from e-conolite but I didn't get the dimmers.

They use a 10v dimmer control IIRC. I couldn't wait to get the lights back on in that space so
I just wired them up full throttle. The switch I use for that light circuit is part of my HA system
and I haven't looked for a low volt dimmer that works with SmartThings.

 

[JeremyH.]

My lights seem to be ok so far after replacing the back stab switches.

 

[Cheese]

My lights seem to be ok so far after replacing the back stab switches.

There was a thread here a few years ago that detailed the issues with back stab receptacles & switches.  [smile]

 

[Rob Z]

Bringing up the topic of back stabbing devices was  a sure way to generate some laughs on the jobsite.  It was always a sure thing to do a wind up (as the Brits say [smile]) and mention this to our electrician onsite.  [big grin] [big grin] Our sparkies had very little sense of humor about the practice of back stabbing.  [big grin]

 

[JeremyH.]

My lights seem to be ok so far after replacing the back stab switches.

There was a thread here a few years ago that detailed the issues with back stab receptacles & switches.  [smile]

Like how they are outlawed in a lot of states since they cause fires? ya...

 

[AlexThePalex]

Seems like you can't do any good with all that back stabbing.