Looking for a comparison: Felder FB610 vs Agazzani B20/20 vs Laguna Italian LT18

[Runhard]

Does anyone have any experience with the Felder FB 610?  
http://www.felderusa.com/us-us/products/bandsaws/bandsaw-fb-610-equipment.html  

I was looking really hard at the Laguna Italian LT18, but now I'm leaning toward the Felder a little more. I have no experience with a bandsaw and do not really have the opportunity to check one of these out in person. I do not have a table saw, jointer or planer yet. My current wish list is the 3.0HP SawStop® 10" Professional Cabinet Saw, Hammer A3 31 jointer-planer, and Felder FB 610, but for now I'm thinking that the bandsaw along with my Festools and growing hand tool collection would be a nice setup. My biggest problem is space, followed by time. I would like to start building my own furniture as a hobbyist and DIYer and I am having a hard time fighting off the temptation to buy my first big woodworking machine. The bandsaw would be going in my small 11'x25' basement shop with a 91" high ceiling. I understand that I will need better dust collection other than my CT's, so I could put the DC on the other side of the basement which is 10'x25', where I have some storage, washer, dryer, furnace, water heater, and so on. I know to be careful with having this equipment near the appliances, especially the furnace. I could build an in closure for the DC and air compressor. I thought that we would have moved by now so that I could build my dream shop, but until that happens, I have to make this space work.

The lighter LT18 would be easier to move down and back up the basement and it has more resaw height. The FB 610 looks awesome and seems to be top quality and built to last. I have heard some good and bad things about Laguna and mostly good things with Felder. I understand it is also personal preference with these tools, but if you could pick any bandsaw under $4,000 would it be one of these or something else?

Thanks,

Daniel

 

[Kev]

Does anyone have any experience with the Felder FB 610?  
http://www.felderusa.com/us-us/products/bandsaws/bandsaw-fb-610-equipment.html  

I was looking really hard at the Laguna Italian LT18, but now I'm leaning toward the Felder a little more. I have no experience with a bandsaw and do not really have the opportunity to check one of these out in person. I do not have a table saw, jointer or planer yet. My current wish list is the 3.0HP SawStop® 10" Professional Cabinet Saw, Hammer A3 31 jointer-planer, and Felder FB 610, but for now I'm thinking that the bandsaw along with my Festools and growing hand tool collection would be a nice setup. My biggest problem is space, followed by time. I would like to start building my own furniture as a hobbyist and DIYer and I am having a hard time fighting off the temptation to buy my first big woodworking machine. The bandsaw would be going in my small 11'x25' basement shop with a 91" high ceiling. I understand that I will need better dust collection other than my CT's, so I could put the DC on the other side of the basement which is 10'x25', where I have some storage, washer, dryer, furnace, water heater, and so on. I know to be careful with having this equipment near the appliances, especially the furnace. I could build an in closure for the DC and air compressor. I thought that we would have moved by now so that I could build my dream shop, but until that happens, I have to make this space work.

The lighter LT18 would be easier to move down and back up the basement and it has more resaw height. The FB 610 looks awesome and seems to be top quality and built to last. I have heard some good and bad things about Laguna and mostly good things with Felder. I understand it is also personal preference with these tools, but if you could pick any bandsaw under $4,000 would it be one of these or something else?

Thanks,

Daniel

You're in exactly the same position as I am. One thing I'm considering is the whole DC issue ... curious whether a Festool DC with 50mm hose and a 100mm to 50mm reduction adaptor would be remotely effective on a bandsaw. Down here I'm looking as Hammer and Laguna (plus a couple of locals that could be a possibility).

I'm starting to think a reasonable portable thickness planer, bandsaw, Festool CMS or Precisio may be right for me ... then I just need to decide on a planer ... I've gone completely off the idea of a combo planer/thicknesser - I can foresee constant reconfiguration driving me mad!

I need more time and more space [sad]

 

[junk731]

I have had the FB600 for 2 years now. The machine has worked well and is made in Austria. The newer FB610 has a couple of modifications, the major one being able to tilt the table to 45 degrees. The FB600 was limited to 22.5 degrees. They also added an extra lower blade guard and changed the door locks. The Laguana LT18 is now an Asian made saw, only their HD series is made by the Italian company ACM. The larger table surface on the FB610 is also nice. I had an 18" Asian bandsaw before I upgraded.

John.

 

[Runhard]

I have had the FB600 for 2 years now. The machine has worked well and is made in Austria. The newer FB610 has a couple of modifications, the major one being able to tilt the table to 45 degrees. The FB600 was limited to 22.5 degrees. They also added an extra lower blade guard and changed the door locks. The Laguana LT18 is now an Asian made saw, only their HD series is made by the Italian company ACM. The larger table surface on the FB610 is also nice. I had an 18" Asian bandsaw before I upgraded.

John.

Hi John,

The Laguna I am considering is the Italian LT18
http://www.lagunatools.com/bandsaws/18-bandsaw
not the LT18 3000.
http://www.lagunatools.com/bandsaws/bandsaw-lt18-3000-series#

The only HD bandsaw I see on their website is the Italian LT16HD. I watched Paul Marcel's (Half-Inch Shy) review over a year ago and he stated that his machine was made in by ACM. I'm thinking that the Felder will serve me well, and its green!

After two years with your machine, do you have any regrets or wish you would have bought something else?

Thanks,

Daniel

 

[Runhard]

Does anyone have any experience with the Felder FB 610?  
http://www.felderusa.com/us-us/products/bandsaws/bandsaw-fb-610-equipment.html  

I was looking really hard at the Laguna Italian LT18, but now I'm leaning toward the Felder a little more. I have no experience with a bandsaw and do not really have the opportunity to check one of these out in person. I do not have a table saw, jointer or planer yet. My current wish list is the 3.0HP SawStop® 10" Professional Cabinet Saw, Hammer A3 31 jointer-planer, and Felder FB 610, but for now I'm thinking that the bandsaw along with my Festools and growing hand tool collection would be a nice setup. My biggest problem is space, followed by time. I would like to start building my own furniture as a hobbyist and DIYer and I am having a hard time fighting off the temptation to buy my first big woodworking machine. The bandsaw would be going in my small 11'x25' basement shop with a 91" high ceiling. I understand that I will need better dust collection other than my CT's, so I could put the DC on the other side of the basement which is 10'x25', where I have some storage, washer, dryer, furnace, water heater, and so on. I know to be careful with having this equipment near the appliances, especially the furnace. I could build an in closure for the DC and air compressor. I thought that we would have moved by now so that I could build my dream shop, but until that happens, I have to make this space work.

The lighter LT18 would be easier to move down and back up the basement and it has more resaw height. The FB 610 looks awesome and seems to be top quality and built to last. I have heard some good and bad things about Laguna and mostly good things with Felder. I understand it is also personal preference with these tools, but if you could pick any bandsaw under $4,000 would it be one of these or something else?

Thanks,

Daniel

You're in exactly the same position as I am. One thing I'm considering is the whole DC issue ... curious whether a Festool DC with 50mm hose and a 100mm to 50mm reduction adaptor would be remotely effective on a bandsaw. Down here I'm looking as Hammer and Laguna (plus a couple of locals that could be a possibility).

I'm starting to think a reasonable portable thickness planer, bandsaw, Festool CMS or Precisio may be right for me ... then I just need to decide on a planer ... I've gone completely off the idea of a combo planer/thicknesser - I can foresee constant reconfiguration driving me mad!

I need more time and more space [sad]

Hey Kev,

I hope to have more space in a few years, I've been looking to move for over a year now. If I had the time I would try to build my own house and sub out most of the work, but that's probably not as easy to do anymore.

I still have time to decide on the other machines and it would be nice to have a separate jointer and planer, decisions-decisions  [cool]  I keep going back and forth as to buy the bandsaw now or wait until I move.

When I first seriously started thinking about a wood-shop and equipment about 1-1/2 years ago I wanted to buy Powermatic because I thought that they were made it the USA. Whatever I end up it will not be made in Asia.

It will interesting to see what we both end up with.

Daniel.

 

[stvrowe]

I previously owned a 2000 model LT18 (12" resaw height) made by ACM and it was a very good machine.  I had no complaints but had upgraded from a Delta 14" so it was a quantum leap forward for me.  Several years ago I had the itch for a 24" bandsaw with greater resaw capabilities.  I ended up with an Aggazani and with them side by side in my shop, the LT-18 looked like a toy. 

I had considered the Felder 610 which was very new at the time and saw one at the IWF in Atlanta.  It looked like it was a very well built machine and would be a great addition to any shop.  The machines I considered in the 24" version were the Laguna, MiniMax, Felder, and Aggazani.  Cost quickly eliminated the Laguna and MM which were over $1K more than the other offerings with just marginal improvements in resaw height.  The reason I chose the Aggazani over the Felder was it had a greater range of blade width capabilities.  The Felder would only go to a minimum blade width of 3/8" and as I recall, had a slightly shorter resaw height than the Aggazani.  It was a very close call between these two with the price point about the same and I had some very good experience with Felder in the past.  Eagle Tools was an unknown to me at the time but I read several reviews from folks that said they were good to go.  I probably would have been as happy with the Felder 610, but as I write this, there is a 1/4" blade on my Agg.  I eventually sold my LT-18 to a friend who loves it. 

One significant difference between the Laguna and the Aggazani is the dust collection.  The Agg with the two connections has far superior dust collection than the LT-18 with just one port.  I would expect the Felder to perform similar to the Agg in this regard.  You will need a true dust collector and the CTs just don't offer enough air flow to connect to large machines.

Over the past 13 years or so, I have had multiple experiences with both Laguna and Felder.  Felder wins the customer service competition hands down and IMHO, these two companies are not even in the same league.  If I were to rate all the woodworking machinery companies I have ever dealt with over the past 30+ years (which is a lot), Laguna would be at the very bottom of my list.  Felder would be near but not at the top. 

The only other machine I would consider with your price limitations is the Aggazani.  I would suggest giving Jesse at Eagle Tools a call for more information.  His website has been under construction for over 3 years now so it is not very enlightening.  Last year Aggazani was sold to Panhans so I don't know if any changes have been made on current model machines.  On another note, the Aggazani machine ships on its spine and is without a doubt, the best packaged machine I have ever received. 

Hope this helps.  Let me know if you have any other questions.

 

[junk731]

I have had the FB600 for 2 years now. The machine has worked well and is made in Austria. The newer FB610 has a couple of modifications, the major one being able to tilt the table to 45 degrees. The FB600 was limited to 22.5 degrees. They also added an extra lower blade guard and changed the door locks. The Laguana LT18 is now an Asian made saw, only their HD series is made by the Italian company ACM. The larger table surface on the FB610 is also nice. I had an 18" Asian bandsaw before I upgraded.

John.

Hi John,

The Laguna I am considering is the Italian LT18
http://www.lagunatools.com/bandsaws/18-bandsaw
not the LT18 3000.
http://www.lagunatools.com/bandsaws/bandsaw-lt18-3000-series#

The only HD bandsaw I see on their website is the Italian LT16HD. I watched Paul Marcel's (Half-Inch Shy) review over a year ago and he stated that his machine was made in by ACM. I'm thinking that the Felder will serve me well, and its green!

After two years with your machine, do you have any regrets or wish you would have bought something else?

Thanks,

Daniel

I haven't had any regrets with any of my Felder equipment. The nice part about the FB600 for me is that my Aigner tables and circle guide work with the F- rail system. They really haven't done anything different then any other quality bandsaw manufacturer, it's a blade on spinning on 2 big wheels. I think the quality of materials and service is whats separates good from not so good. I also don't think you could go wrong with the Aggazani either. Quality machine from a good dealer. I have one advantage of only being 1/2 hour away from dealer that has a good selection of machines including the FB610 we are discussing.

John

 

[Runhard]

I previously owned a 2000 model LT18 (12" resaw height) made by ACM and it was a very good machine.  I had no complaints but had upgraded from a Delta 14" so it was a quantum leap forward for me.  Several years ago I had the itch for a 24" bandsaw with greater resaw capabilities.  I ended up with an Aggazani and with them side by side in my shop, the LT-18 looked like a toy.  

I had considered the Felder 610 which was very new at the time and saw one at the IWF in Atlanta.  It looked like it was a very well built machine and would be a great addition to any shop.  The machines I considered in the 24" version were the Laguna, MiniMax, Felder, and Aggazani.  Cost quickly eliminated the Laguna and MM which were over $1K more than the other offerings with just marginal improvements in resaw height.  The reason I chose the Aggazani over the Felder was it had a greater range of blade width capabilities.  The Felder would only go to a minimum blade width of 3/8" and as I recall, had a slightly shorter resaw height than the Aggazani.  It was a very close call between these two with the price point about the same and I had some very good experience with Felder in the past.  Eagle Tools was an unknown to me at the time but I read several reviews from folks that said they were good to go.  I probably would have been as happy with the Felder 610, but as I write this, there is a 1/4" blade on my Agg.  I eventually sold my LT-18 to a friend who loves it.  

One significant difference between the Laguna and the Aggazani is the dust collection.  The Agg with the two connections has far superior dust collection than the LT-18 with just one port.  I would expect the Felder to perform similar to the Agg in this regard.  You will need a true dust collector and the CTs just don't offer enough air flow to connect to large machines.

Over the past 13 years or so, I have had multiple experiences with both Laguna and Felder.  Felder wins the customer service competition hands down and IMHO, these two companies are not even in the same league.  If I were to rate all the woodworking machinery companies I have ever dealt with over the past 30+ years (which is a lot), Laguna would be at the very bottom of my list.  Felder would be near but not at the top.  

The only other machine I would consider with your price limitations is the Aggazani.  I would suggest giving Jesse at Eagle Tools a call for more information.  His website has been under construction for over 3 years now so it is not very enlightening.  Last year Aggazani was sold to Panhans so I don't know if any changes have been made on current model machines.  On another note, the Aggazani machine ships on its spine and is without a doubt, the best packaged machine I have ever received.  

Hope this helps.  Let me know if you have any other questions.

I have tried to look up information and pricing on the Aggazani's, but there isn't much info on the web and as you said, Eagle Tools website isn't much help. I've been going to that site for at least a year, hoping for some information, but no luck. I did watch a video that Paul M has on his blog when he visited Eagle Tools. It seems to be a great store, I wish that they would update their website.

I might end up calling them to get some information. What model do you have?

Daniel

 

[stvrowe]

I have tried to look up information and pricing on the Aggazani's, but there isn't much info on the web and as you said, Eagle Tools website isn't much help. I've been going to that site for at least a year, hoping for some information, but no luck. I did watch a video that Paul M has on his blog when he visited Eagle Tools. It seems to be a great store, I wish that they would update their website.

I might end up calling them to get some information. What model do you have?

Daniel

I bought the B-24 with 17.75" resaw capacity and 2 belt drive which was a new model from that indicated in the table below.  The only way to get info on the Aggazani is to contact Jesse Barragan at Eagle Tools.  He is more knowledgeable about bandsaws and his models than anyone I have ever spoken with.  He will email you specs, pictures, and if he doesn't know the answer to your questions, he will find out from the manufacturer.

This is some of the info he sent me almost 3 years ago so I suspect pricing and/or specs has changed.  From what I recall, the difference in price between the Felder and the Aggazani was less than $100 and I don't remember which was the more expensive.  Just like with Festool equipment, I tend to forget the cost of machinery that I am completely satisfied with but, remember to the penny how much I spent on equipment that failed to satisfy.

MODELS:                              B-24                    B-20                        B-18         
List Price                          $3,395                    $2,795                    $2,395 
Motor                                  4.8HP                    3HP                        3HP
Voltage                                230v                    230v                        230v
Phase                                  1Ø                        1Ø                          1Ø
Amps                                  22.5                        14.5                        14.5

Footprint at base              34” x 16”                29” x 16”                28” x 14 3/4”
Maximum resaw height    16.75”                      13.50”                    13”
Maximum cutting width    22.75”                      19”                        17 1/4”
Blade range                      3/16” to 1 1/2”            3/16” to 1 1/4”          3/16” to 1”

Table size                          23.25” x 32”            19.4” x 26.5”          17” x 24.5”   
Weight                              660 lbs.                  474lbs.                  386 lbs.

Overall height                    83.50”                    76”                          75 1/4”
Overall width                    44.50”                    34”                          33”
Overall depth                    24.75”                    22”                          22”

 

[ScotF]

I have owned an LT18 since 2001 and it has been a great machine.  I have upgraded it over the years to include the ceramic guides (which are awesome), bigger motor (for heavy resawing) and the Driftmaster fence.  It has been a great machine and has done everything I have asked of it with ease.  Its one limiting factor is throat depth -- with the fence installed I can only rip about 15 inches or so.  The Felder would get you closer to 20 inches.  I also think that the new Felder is a great machine as well, and it gives 24 inch capacity for resawing and wider throat depth without the taller height some of the other models offer.  My other Felder machines are awesome and this one is designed and built in Austria along with the other Felder units.  

The one thing that is important to me as a band saw user is being able to easily adjust the machine for blade drift.  On the Aggazani and Felder models, blade drift adjustment is difficult as you have to adjust the rails on the table verses swiveling the fence on a pivot point.  Some will argue that on a big machine that is properly adjusted that you will not have to adjust for blade drift, but I have never found that to be the case.  Every blade I have ever used has a certain set to the teeth and all blades drift one way or another.  I think that this is part of the reason why users do not think of a band saw as having the ability to make refined cuts.  With the Driftmaster or with ACM standard cast-iron or Aluminum fences, you can adjust for drift by loosening a bolts on the fence and changing the angle of drift.  The Driftmaster allows you to use a dial and locks things in without tools.  The other fence requires an allen wrench.  Of course you can probably add a Driftmaster or other fence system to the Aggazani or Felder without too much trouble, but I thought I would mention this from my experience.  Others may weigh in and give the counter argument of not having to adjust for drift.

I would recommend reading some of the books on band saw too if you are learning about them -- Mark Duginske and Lonnie Bird have published two good books on this machine and you will learn a lot by reading them.

As for customer service, I have never had a bad experience with Laguna Tools and my experience dealing with Felder has been so-so.  My local Felder rep is awesome and a few folks in DE are great to work with as well, but I have had my frustration dealing with them on certain things as well.  Laguna has always gone above and beyond to help me.  For example, in 2009 the upper wheel tension assembly broke on my saw while I tensioned a blade.  I called service and the person stayed on the phone late with me to troubleshoot the issue.  When we found out what the problem was I was thinking it would be an expensive part to fix on a 9 year old saw.  Well several people at Laguna got involved, including Torben himself, and they determined that the part was probably faulty at the time of manufacture and that it just took awhile for it to fail.  They found a new assembly in their warehouse and gave me the replacement, free of charge.  To me that was amazing service and demonstrated that they stand behind their products -- resolving an issue on a machine that was well outside of any warranty period and not even charging me for a new part.  They have replaced blades for free and literally gone out of their way to help me on more than one occasion.  Maybe it is because I live locally and can easily scoot to their office and deal with them in person or maybe it is the relationship that I have made with a few of the people at Laguna, but I would not hesitate buying from them.

I would love to add a bigger band saw to my collection and the Felder would certainly be in contention as well as one of the larger Laguna machines.  I think that having a two saw set up with one for scrolling and one for resawing/straight ripping would be ideal.  Jesse at Eagle Tools is great to deal with as well and he can send you any documentation you need over email.  In fact, I might even have materials on their larger machines in an old email that I could send you -- PM me if you are interested and I will see if I still have them or just call Jesse and he can get them out to you as well.

Scot

 

[PaulMarcel]

Over the past 13 years or so, I have had multiple experiences with both Laguna and Felder.  Felder wins the customer service competition hands down and IMHO, these two companies are not even in the same league.  If I were to rate all the woodworking machinery companies I have ever dealt with over the past 30+ years (which is a lot), Laguna would be at the very bottom of my list.  Felder would be near but not at the top. 

I haven't been at it for 30 years, but I suspect Laguna will be in that position when I do; at times I wonder why they are still around.

I didn't know about Eagle Tools (only 5 hours from my place!) when I got the Italian LT-18.  Purchasing today, I'd go chat with Jesse for a long time about the saws.  He's very honest about his opinions and if you don't like something like the blade guides on a saw, he'll pull out 5 other types that slip into the same saw that he's gotten from other customers.  Pretty sure the construction on Eagle's web site is a lot like my home remodeling efforts: neither will finish.

I wanted Laguna's ceramic guides so that was a big factor; you can retrofit them on other saws, but then there's an 'upgrade' cost.  I know some of the guides Jesse showed us for the Aggazani had different benefits like the ceramic guides and naturally you can get the ceramic guides.  I wouldn't be at all surprised if you could order the saw from him with the ceramic guides as he'd keep the original Aggazani's for replacement parts; just a guess.

I agree the Aggazani would have better DC than the ACM/Italian-LT-18; I did a make-shift under-table port, but it doesn't compare to the real thing.  Other than the under-table DC, I love my saw.

 

[Runhard]

I am taking a trip to Yosemite and Sequoia National Parks in August. I will fly into LA and then fly to Merced. I wish that I could change my flight to have a longer layover in LA, I will only be there for 2hrs, so I could go to Eagle Tools. Hindsight is a real bummer sometimes  [doh]

 

[stvrowe]

Daniel,
I ran across a picture with the LT-18 and B-24 side by side which will give you visual of scale.  If you are looking at the new LT-18 with 18" resaw, it will obviously be taller.  Like Scot, I had upgraded to the Laguna ceramic guides and the Driftmaster fence which you can see in the picture.  The ceramic guides I liked quite a bit and were an improvement over the original guides.  I also had to adjust the fence on the LT-18 for nearly every blade change so I upgraded to the Driftmaster fence.  This upgrade was the beginning of the second, and third customer service fiascos I had with with Laguna.  I must say that the Driftmaster is  a good idea but, it was poorly designed and executed.  I eventually got it working but could never get over the fact that in order to change a blade, I had to tilt the table which is a chore on older LT-18 bandsaws.  Honestly, this design flaw rates right up there with the old Pontiac Fiero cars where you had to drop the engine out to change the spark plugs.

So far in the past 2-1/2 years (knock on wood), I have yet to need to adjust for drift on the B-24.  Don't ask me to explain why, I am just happy that I have not had to deal with it.

[attachimg=#]

 

[junk731]

Over the years its been hard to know where Laguana bandsaws orignated. The update saying Italian made is not that old. I don't know what this drift problem is all about, once setup I've personally never had a problem with drift even with the Asian bandsaw. Nice setup with the Aigner accessories Steve. How do you like the pressure module on the bandsaw for resawing?

John

 

[Runhard]

Thanks for all the info guys. I'm now leaning more towards the Felder FB610 or Agazzani B-20/20. I have renamed this topic to add the Agazzani. I will have to do some careful planning to be able to get it into my basement. I will try to get some info from Eagle Tools soon.

Daniel

 

[stvrowe]

Over the years its been hard to know where Laguana bandsaws orignated. The update saying Italian made is not that old. I don't know what this drift problem is all about, once setup I've personally never had a problem with drift even with the Asian bandsaw. Nice setup with the Aigner accessories Steve. How do you like the pressure module on the bandsaw for resawing?

John

I had the pressure module on a shaper and when I got the new bandsaw, I just decided to try it on the BS to see how well it worked.  I have found the pressure module is not really necessary unless the workpiece is very long, bulky or heavy and in these cases, it keeps the workpiece against the fence when I am not close enough to the fence to do it myself.  I have found the extension tables indispensable and have them configured for a number of machines.  I have even made an adapter so that I can attach these to the MFT for more support. 

 

[junk731]

Steve

The Aigner extensions are hard to beat for the price. The pressure module seems like the ticket what what I'm also doing, its the pressure module or a bandsaw power feeder. Sorry for the minor hijack of the thread Daniel.

John

 

[ScotF]

Steve,

Does the fence on the Aggazani allow for drift adjustments if you need to?  It is great that you have not needed it.  I do like these saws.

Scot

 

[stvrowe]

Steve,

Does the fence on the Aggazani allow for drift adjustments if you need to?  It is great that you have not needed it.  I do like these saws.

Scot

Scot,
The fence mount is a single casting with no adjustments.  If I ever have to adjust the saw for drift, I will call Jesse.  I have given some thought to installing some belleville washers on the fence mounting rail to give some adjustment for drift but I am not willing to disturb the perfection that exists until the need arises.

Steve

 

[Kevin Johnson]

Where is a good place to look at and price the extensions?