Looking for sunlight resistant stain

[smorgasbord]

I've been using Sutherland Welles Old World Concentrated Stains for decades, and have gotten great results - except for a few pieces/locations that get a lot of sun through windows (non-gas filled). I'm replacing the skylights in the house with the latest Velux, and opted for the stain-grade wood interior. But, it needs to be stained to match the rest of the house. Obviously, I'm worried about UV caused fading.

Now, maybe the new E-glass from Velux will help reduce UV rays getting through, but probably not enough to prevent fading - I suspect that's mostly about heat transmissiong (which is IR, right?). Anyway, I think my choices are:

1) Get a Gel stain that comes close and use that. Overcoat with my normal Murdoch's finish (also from Sutherland Welles).
2) Use the SW stain I've been using and topcoat with a Spar Varnish, or a boat-type Polyurethane (Smith & Co makes one) that has UV blockers in it.

Other ideas for me? Skylights will be delivered in a few weeks, and I'll have a month in which to stain/finish them, so multiple coats are an option.

 

[luvmytoolz]

I had the same issue early last year with the inside of a large window frame that gets direct sun all day, and went with an exterior grade Marine varnish, Bondall Monocell Gold to be specific. Happily it's still like new, whereas prior finishes would start deteriorating after some months.

 

[smorgasbord]

Just to be clear, my only issue is color fading, not actual deterioration

 

[luvmytoolz]

Colour fading and varnish deterioration was my concern as I had ebonised the inside frame. I'm very happy with the results of such a high sunlight exposure area after 1.5 years using the marine varnish.

 

[smorgasbord]

Would the marine varnish protext the dye stain underneath?
The kind of fading I'm seeing takes like a decade to be noticeable with my current stain and oil finish.

 

[Packard]

Mineral-based pigments are generally viewed as UV resistant. However, I don’t seem to recall seeing that specified on wood stains. I do see it listed in artists’ paints (usually oil paints).

A google search revealed several manufacturers that do make that mineral-based pigment claim.

Google Search

I have no personal experience with these though.

 

[luvmytoolz]

@smorgasbord If you're getting 10 years before it's noticeable that's pretty good. We can't get anywhere near that here in OZ with the high sun and UV, especially on direct exposure most of the day.

 

[leakyroof]

I ran into this exact issue with Pigment Stains under high grade Marine Varnish. You want an Alcohol based dye or similar. Much more resistant to UV rays.
The fading is even worse with Pigment Stains under regular Interior rated Varnish that doesn't have any real UV additives to it. I'm talking about losing your color on Window Sills/Window stool trim with the sunlight coming in that are stained. Very frustrating since the rest of the window trim is out of the UV rays enough that they're not affected, and now you've got a 'washed out' look to the sill/stool....

Normally I'm putting a few coats of Epifanes Marine Gloss Varnish on the trim to combat the UVs. If that's too glossy for you, use their Rapid Clear. It's more like a Semi-gloss. Not quite as UV durable as the heavier Gloss Varnish, but with 3 or 4 coats [it's thinner], it's fast drying and will hold up to a fair amount of UV like sunlight that is day light position versus something sitting outside, with totally sun rotation of the day hitting it.
Still best with an Alcohol Based Dye under it though for resisting Color Fading.

 

[Packard]

Starbucks, of late, have been placing stickers on their tabletops. On the blond colored tops, this is not an issue. But they do have a walnut colored (or actual walnut) top. In stores where the tables are near a window, in less than 6 months you will see a darker colored spot where the sticker used to be. Quite unsightly.

Note: My go-to for non-glossy clear coat is to use a glossy finish and then use 0000 steel wool with either wax or “wool-oil”. The wool-oil is preferred if you think you will have to refinish the surface, but the wax finish gives a really luxurious tactile feel and that is usually my approach. If I need to refinish the surface, I take care to be thorough. Also note: Avoid any wax that includes silicone in its ingredients. The silicone can be difficult, to impossible, to clean off satisfactorily for re-finishing purposes.

 

[smorgasbord]

I got a nice reply from Sutherland Welles:

If you don’t want to maintain those areas as frequently, we recommend using another brand of stain that utilizes exterior grade pigments. Benjamin Moore & Cabot both make exterior grade oil stains that can be mixed with our products. Other options include using exterior metal complex dyes that have been diluted in denatured alcohol, but that’s a process for sure. You could also use an exterior grade water based stain, just follow their curing instructions before coating over with our finish. The color might shift a but darker with the oil over it.

The UV Guards in the exterior line protect the finish from cracking and peeling, which would be great for the skylight as a clear coat. They do not protect pigments like the ones we use in the current OW stains. We don’t recommend using our stains in these scenarios.

There's a Benjamin Moore near me, so I'll try a couple of samples.

 

[Packard]

On a related note, some products that are sold with a finish on them have misleading statements about UV resistance.

If the product says, “has a UV resistant finish”, then the meaning is clear enough. But if the product says it “has a UV finish”, then the manufacturer is playing word-games. In that case, it is almost certain that they are using a UV cured finish, which may or may not be UV resistant.

UV cured finishes cure much, much faster and allows the manufacturer to pack sooner and ship quicker, both of which saves the manufacturer money.

UV resistant finishes are more expensive and raise the cost to manufacture. If the product has a UV resistant finish, you can be certain that the advertising will call that out and avoid the ambiguity involved by just stating “UV finish”.

Some UV resistant finishes may also be UV cured, but still, I would expect they mention the resistance in that case.

 

[leakyroof]

If Behlen Alcohol stains are still readily available, that's an easy way to go as they're already mixed for you. Or, you buy Transtint in the color of your choice, add Denatured Alcohol and go that route. I think I used to get the Behlens from Woodworkers Supply out West, but they closed up a few years ago.
Found a link for them, Solar-Lux

Behlen Solar-Lux Non Grain Raising Wood Dyes

Behlen NGR DYE Stains are fade resistant. Solar-LuxÃÆÃâÃâ ââ¬â¢ÃÆâ⬠âââ‰â¢ÃÆÃââââ¬Ã¡ÃÆââ¬Å¡ÃââÃÆÃâÃâ ââ¬â¢ÃÆââ¬Å¡ÃââÃÆÃâÃââÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâ¦Ã¡ÃÆââ¬Å¡ÃâìÃÆÃââââ¬Ã¦ÃÆââ¬Å¡ÃâþÃÆÃâÃâ ââ¬â¢ÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâ¦Ã¡ÃÆÃââââ¬Ã¡ÃÆââ¬Å¡Ãââ Non Grain Raising...

www.shellac.net

 

[peter halle]

I don't believe that the Transtint dyes are that fade-proof.

Peter

 

[Packard]

I don't believe that the Transtint dyes are that fade-proof.

Peter

Lots of discussions, but little agreement. Apparently, they make a line called “Solar-Lux” that is supposed to have greater UV resistance. None of the posts seem to come from authoritative sources, so I could not find anything that seemed to rise above “informed-opinion “.

Look here: https://www.google.com/search?q=transtint dyes uv restance&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b-1-m