MAC vs PC
- Thread starter Bob Marino
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WarnerConstCo.
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Marc2010 said:
That is why I had to stop buying Festool's, too much sucking me into more stuff.
Bob Marino
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Woweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee, lot's of thoughtful responses here. THANKS ALL. I am getting a desktop first and maybe later the laptop, but I will also be checking out the MACS in the APPLE Stores for some hands on before I decide.
Having said that, if it looks good in person, am leaning more toward the MACS, for the following reasons:
From those in the know, prices are initially higher - but components seem to be higher quality, doesn't change models, skews every other month, with pricing held constant, don't/won't have to call/shop 25 different stores to search the lowest possible price, seems to be service, rather than priced based and can get way better customer service....kinda like Festool.
The search continues..............................
Bob
Having said that, if it looks good in person, am leaning more toward the MACS, for the following reasons:
From those in the know, prices are initially higher - but components seem to be higher quality, doesn't change models, skews every other month, with pricing held constant, don't/won't have to call/shop 25 different stores to search the lowest possible price, seems to be service, rather than priced based and can get way better customer service....kinda like Festool.
The search continues..............................
Bob
Btw Bob,
I've gotten a good six years out of my Mac PowerBook (laptop) at home(*). In reality, the reason I'm about to get a new MacBook air is because they changed from PowerPC chips (IBM) to intel and new software isn't supported on my model.
Other than that, I could go longer
* includes 3 battery replacements.
I've gotten a good six years out of my Mac PowerBook (laptop) at home(*). In reality, the reason I'm about to get a new MacBook air is because they changed from PowerPC chips (IBM) to intel and new software isn't supported on my model.
Other than that, I could go longer
* includes 3 battery replacements.
WarnerConstCo.
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BMH said:
4 years? Lot of clams for 4 years.
My windows based desktop is 6 years old and still works like a champ.
Jesse Cloud
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Peter Halle said:
Ah Peter, you whippersnapper, I've still got a few rolls of punched tape around somewhere. [tongue] Aren't you glad the good old days are long gone!!?
NuggyBuggy
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Sorry for the long post. I cannot help myself.
I was a longtime home Windows user (you know where this is going). I've also worked professionally in Windows and in various Unix (Solaris, FreeBSD, and more variations of Linux than I want to count). I never liked Mac OS and then OS X, but when I saw the Stickies application on my wife's computer, I knew I wanted a similar app. I spent a long time looking for comparable applications for Windows, and even longer trying to build various freeware versions under Linux and/or fighting dependency problems. Finally I decided I would let my office buy me a Macbook Pro when I went on paternity leave.
It took a little while to get used to the Mac way of doing things, but OS X (Tiger, I believe when I got mine) had progressed a lot since the first versions of OS X with which I was familiar. Here are some things that I quickly discovered I loved in OS X:
- Expose makes it very easy to switch, isolate and manage apps.
- Spotlight makes it easy to find files. Press command-space and you can quickly find files, applications and folders by typing. No need to poke around with the mouse to locate Windows' far weaker search program.
- The dock is a lot more useful than I thought it would be
- the computer did not come with a ton of crap I didn't need. I didn't need to download a program to clean off the stuff that subsidizes the cost of a Windows computer. It didn't come with a million stickers on it I would need to clean off.
- Magsafe adapter means I don't have to worry about my computer falling off the table if my kid trips on the power cable.
- you can drag folders or documents you use often to the left side of your Finder (equivalent of Explorer). Makes it really easy to find working files, and means you can quickly move documents between folders without having to have multiple Explorer windows open.
I recently bought a Windows gaming machine. It is very fast, much faster in spec than my Macbook Pro with a huge display. But even when I have the Windows machine on my lap, I find myself reaching for my 4 year old Macbook.
Some other observations:
- if your computer ships with 32-bit Windows, it can't fully use more than 4 GB of RAM.
- in my house I have 4 Windows laptops and 3 Mac laptops. Every single Windows machine has a different layout: different keys are used to change the volume, change brightness, etc. Keys like caps lock, delete, shift are located in different places or are sized differently. Every single Mac laptop is laid out exactly the same, and the same keys do the same things. There are more than a few times when I have no idea what given icons on a Windows machine's keyboard do, because they are all different.
- I just copied some files to the second partition of a USB drive (both formatted in FAT32). Then I tried to move it to my Windows machine for viewing, because it has a much bigger screen. For some reason, Windows will not see the second partition. Why ? I have no idea, and I have no patience to figure this crap out again. I don't need to, but with Windows it seems like there's always crap like this.
- if you ever have a problem and live near a major city, there's probably an Apple store you can walk into with your computer and get help within 24-hours. You book an appointment online, and sometimes can be seen the same day. If you're in your warranty period, it's free, I'm not sure what happens after. In fact, if you can't figure out how to do X, Y or Z on your Mac, you can book an appointment. Where in the PC world can you get an appointment with a knowledge Windows tech support person so quickly for free ?
Someone mentioned availability of software. Ask yourself what software do you really need ? The vast majority of apps or equivalents that most people need are available under OS X. The only real body of software that I can think of that is under represented in the Mac world are games.
As for compatibility: if you buy a piece of hardware that is supposed to work with an Apple, it will probably do so. I can't count the number of pieces of hardware that is supposed to work with Windows that ended up forcing me to the Google, discussion forums, and tech support boards looking or hoping for a driver to resolve my problem. Survey the hardware you need, and you will probably find it or something just as good is Apple compatible.
And finally as to costs: Macs do appear to be more expensive than Windows machines. But the initial outlays are misleading indicators of cost over the computer's lifetime. As far as I am concerned, the greater productivity I experience under OS X reduces the computer's effective costs. When Apple updates their operating system, the costs are quite reasonable. Microsoft will make you pay a lot more if your computer is even usable then: Macs seem to age far better than Windows machines, and retain their value much better. My 5-year old Macbook Pro is still very usable with current software. Not true for the Windows laptops I've used. Look on Craigslist and see how little a 1-year old Macbook has depreciated relative to any 1-year old Windows laptop.
Here's my advice: go to Best Buy or somewhere with a return policy (I don't think Apple's return policy is as generous). You can take the computer you buy at Best Buy and then get support or hand-holding at an Apple store if you need. Try it out for 14-days or whatever the return period is. I bet you never go back.
I was a longtime home Windows user (you know where this is going). I've also worked professionally in Windows and in various Unix (Solaris, FreeBSD, and more variations of Linux than I want to count). I never liked Mac OS and then OS X, but when I saw the Stickies application on my wife's computer, I knew I wanted a similar app. I spent a long time looking for comparable applications for Windows, and even longer trying to build various freeware versions under Linux and/or fighting dependency problems. Finally I decided I would let my office buy me a Macbook Pro when I went on paternity leave.
It took a little while to get used to the Mac way of doing things, but OS X (Tiger, I believe when I got mine) had progressed a lot since the first versions of OS X with which I was familiar. Here are some things that I quickly discovered I loved in OS X:
- Expose makes it very easy to switch, isolate and manage apps.
- Spotlight makes it easy to find files. Press command-space and you can quickly find files, applications and folders by typing. No need to poke around with the mouse to locate Windows' far weaker search program.
- The dock is a lot more useful than I thought it would be
- the computer did not come with a ton of crap I didn't need. I didn't need to download a program to clean off the stuff that subsidizes the cost of a Windows computer. It didn't come with a million stickers on it I would need to clean off.
- Magsafe adapter means I don't have to worry about my computer falling off the table if my kid trips on the power cable.
- you can drag folders or documents you use often to the left side of your Finder (equivalent of Explorer). Makes it really easy to find working files, and means you can quickly move documents between folders without having to have multiple Explorer windows open.
I recently bought a Windows gaming machine. It is very fast, much faster in spec than my Macbook Pro with a huge display. But even when I have the Windows machine on my lap, I find myself reaching for my 4 year old Macbook.
Some other observations:
- if your computer ships with 32-bit Windows, it can't fully use more than 4 GB of RAM.
- in my house I have 4 Windows laptops and 3 Mac laptops. Every single Windows machine has a different layout: different keys are used to change the volume, change brightness, etc. Keys like caps lock, delete, shift are located in different places or are sized differently. Every single Mac laptop is laid out exactly the same, and the same keys do the same things. There are more than a few times when I have no idea what given icons on a Windows machine's keyboard do, because they are all different.
- I just copied some files to the second partition of a USB drive (both formatted in FAT32). Then I tried to move it to my Windows machine for viewing, because it has a much bigger screen. For some reason, Windows will not see the second partition. Why ? I have no idea, and I have no patience to figure this crap out again. I don't need to, but with Windows it seems like there's always crap like this.
- if you ever have a problem and live near a major city, there's probably an Apple store you can walk into with your computer and get help within 24-hours. You book an appointment online, and sometimes can be seen the same day. If you're in your warranty period, it's free, I'm not sure what happens after. In fact, if you can't figure out how to do X, Y or Z on your Mac, you can book an appointment. Where in the PC world can you get an appointment with a knowledge Windows tech support person so quickly for free ?
Someone mentioned availability of software. Ask yourself what software do you really need ? The vast majority of apps or equivalents that most people need are available under OS X. The only real body of software that I can think of that is under represented in the Mac world are games.
As for compatibility: if you buy a piece of hardware that is supposed to work with an Apple, it will probably do so. I can't count the number of pieces of hardware that is supposed to work with Windows that ended up forcing me to the Google, discussion forums, and tech support boards looking or hoping for a driver to resolve my problem. Survey the hardware you need, and you will probably find it or something just as good is Apple compatible.
And finally as to costs: Macs do appear to be more expensive than Windows machines. But the initial outlays are misleading indicators of cost over the computer's lifetime. As far as I am concerned, the greater productivity I experience under OS X reduces the computer's effective costs. When Apple updates their operating system, the costs are quite reasonable. Microsoft will make you pay a lot more if your computer is even usable then: Macs seem to age far better than Windows machines, and retain their value much better. My 5-year old Macbook Pro is still very usable with current software. Not true for the Windows laptops I've used. Look on Craigslist and see how little a 1-year old Macbook has depreciated relative to any 1-year old Windows laptop.
Here's my advice: go to Best Buy or somewhere with a return policy (I don't think Apple's return policy is as generous). You can take the computer you buy at Best Buy and then get support or hand-holding at an Apple store if you need. Try it out for 14-days or whatever the return period is. I bet you never go back.
GPowers
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Peter Halle said:
How about paper tape. In collage we would save a program to Paper tape. Also my first programing job at a bank we use 80 column card decks for all our programs. Plus we had to keypunch the cards ourself, if we wanted faster turn around time. It was a big deal to have a program on magnetic tape.
The next job we had 96 column cards. And the computer still had old fashion core memory, not very stable
PaulMarcel
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Jesse Cloud said:
I'll have to find the picture... my dad was a computer operator after being an installer long ago for various 'moon-shot' program; for example, he installed many of the machines at Cape Canaveral. Anyway, one year, I gave him a gift for Christmas wrapped in green-bar from a line printer, paper-tape as the wrapping ribbon, and punchcard as the "to/from" card. I think when he tore it open, he officially said goodbye to that era
Today's equivalent would be wrapping it in tee-shirt transfer ink jet paper, a SCSI and/or Centronics parallel cable as the ribbon, and one of those goofy "business card" size CD-ROMs as the from/to card.
So, Bob, if you get the papertape reader option on your machine, make sure you get the 3x5 reader, not the 4x4. The 4x4 was a bad idea.
I just noticed Greg posted while I was typing... actually core memory is very stable. It is still used, in certain variants, on space probes for that reason. The decay rate of the stored value is far less slower than any modern memories with the exception of Flash. ...but if you are referring to the mess of wires, yeah, not very stable
Ken Nagrod
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Luckily Bob is not too far from me, so I'm going to take him shopping for something he can easily handle and is upgradeable with extra beads. It's the Macabacus by Apple and comes standard with 8 gigabeads of RAM.
GPowers
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PaulMarcel said:I just noticed Greg posted while I was typing... actually core memory is very stable. It is still used, in certain variants, on space probes for that reason. The decay rate of the stored value is far less slower than any modern memories with the exception of Flash. ...but if you are referring to the mess of wires, yeah, not very stable
Yep I'am referencing the old wire and donuts memory. You had to keep the temperature and humidity just right or the old Burroughs computer would crash. We replaced the Burroughs with a state-of-the-art IBM system 34 with 27 meg of disk. Two disks that were 24'' across, they were huge.
pugilato
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After being PC for years, I finally got a Mac and have been very happy. Also, if you really want PC, you can get a Mac and run Windows through it. If you dont want to spend a ton of money, and are using the computer to check emails, do web browsing, simple word-processing and spreadsheeting, think about an iPad. You can buy Microsoft Office for it.
A few things I really like about Apple computers--
Operating system software is DIRT CHEAP! They only charge $49 for a new install vs around $200 for Windows.
The iWork Mac office software package is also $49 and is very useful and functional.
Been a Dell laptop user and support person for years with a tremendous decline in manufacturing quality over the last couple years. In comparison, when I open up a Macbook Pro, I am really impressed with the layout and design.
With Apple now using Intel processors, you can easily use Bootcamp and dual boot with choice of MacOS or Windows although you do have to have a new install version of Windows on hand.
I am no fan of the version of Safari on the Macs although the version of Safari on my iPad is easy and intuitive. Too many years of using Explorer on a PC!
Operating system software is DIRT CHEAP! They only charge $49 for a new install vs around $200 for Windows.
The iWork Mac office software package is also $49 and is very useful and functional.
Been a Dell laptop user and support person for years with a tremendous decline in manufacturing quality over the last couple years. In comparison, when I open up a Macbook Pro, I am really impressed with the layout and design.
With Apple now using Intel processors, you can easily use Bootcamp and dual boot with choice of MacOS or Windows although you do have to have a new install version of Windows on hand.
I am no fan of the version of Safari on the Macs although the version of Safari on my iPad is easy and intuitive. Too many years of using Explorer on a PC!
Sparktrician
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Ken Nagrod said:
I couldn't agree more with Ken. I've had Dell computers in offices for years, and although they seem to be ubiquitous in many places, they're just junk. Dell's support is off-shore and sucks ditch water even worse them Microsoft. I've had great success with HP laptops; one lasting 11 years so far, the other almost 5 years. Last year I bought a Sony VPC-F1190X 16.4" laptop with a great display that has 1920 x 1080 resolution which is wonderful for some of the things that I do. It cost no more than the last HP I bought. Windows 7 is now what Vista was supposed to be. I've had NO blue screens on Windows 7 (except on a Dell laptop that I sometimes use). OpenOffice is a great (and free) replacement for the Microsoft Office suite. It works very well on all of my Win7 machines as well as my Linux machines. It does some things differently to MS Office, but is every bit as competent. Stay away from IE9. That one browser has broken a couple of desktop gadgets that I use. Firefox 4 is a really good browser, and leaves IE in the dust. Acronis makes two great utilities; True Image Home for making regular backups, and Disk Director for repartitioning hard drives non-destructively. While Macs are great machines, especially in the graphics world, I just can't make a good cost justification for making the investment. I'd also stay away from Best Buy because of their disadvantageous return policies (read them carefully!!!) and horrible support. Kaspersky anti-virus is one of the best, too.
[smile]
pugilato
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You hear a lot of noise about how expensive Macs are... if you compare prices of a Mac and a PC that have comparable parts, you will find that they are the same price. When you got a PC, you always buy this and that gizmo and gadget to make it work better. At then end, you find you have paid the same for both computers. Also, if you want to buy the latest operating system, Macs are much less expensive. Same with the software.
With Parallels, you can run Windows on a Mac without having to reboot (check it out at parallels.com). The only problem with parallels is getting Windows to run in it (you are going to spend $200-300). What I have done is kept my PC, and I can run it from my Mac using LogMeIn. The keyboard and the monitor and all that is stored away somewhere.
I've been a PC, and now I'm a Mac, and I ain't going back.
With Parallels, you can run Windows on a Mac without having to reboot (check it out at parallels.com). The only problem with parallels is getting Windows to run in it (you are going to spend $200-300). What I have done is kept my PC, and I can run it from my Mac using LogMeIn. The keyboard and the monitor and all that is stored away somewhere.
I've been a PC, and now I'm a Mac, and I ain't going back.
GhostFist
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Bob Marino said:
Apple typically upgrades their SKU's yearly. Internal components are the same as ones available for pc's. Benefits to using a MAC are simple clean easy to use interface for basic home computing. I've been away from PC's for quite a while but I find the MAC OS takes less mucking around to find stuff or do things, if you catch m drift. I've said repeatedly that MACS aren't the be all and end all of computers, personally, I would never buy another Apple product again, not because they're faulty more because I don't like the controls/restrictions put on them by Apple. I would consider my self a little more tech savvy than the average person so my gripes with MAC might not affect you. If you're a casual computer dabbler and you have money to through away but little patience for mucking around with your devices, MACS are the way to go. If you want to get into the meat and potatoes of computing look elsewhere.
MAC = Excellent but expensive novice to casual user equipment.
Everything else = more customizable, upgradable, swappable components, cost efficient
