MAC vs PC

[Kodi Crescent]

I believe that anyone finding the Windows interface more efficient than a recent version of OS X has not worked very long in the latter.  The types of things that OS X does best - moving files around between frequently used places, locating files in frequently used folders, searching for files, managing and switching between open applications - are the things that most people do most of the time when they are interacting with the operating system.

So what you point out is an issue with all tools - How you use it is different than how I use it.  I'll admit that I haven't used OSX nearly as long as a Windows platform.  I work on a Windows machine at work, and come home and use my Mac.  I don't use my Mac because its a Mac, but because I can sit on the couch and surf.  So my experience with Macs is limited to web surfing, and writing emails and forum posts.

What I find really inefficient is when I have multiple Safari windows open.  To switch browser windows I have to mouse up to the Safari icon, right click on it, and select the desired browser.  On the PC I could Alt-tab through the list of open applications until I found what I wanted.  If you have a shortcut for doing this on the Mac, I'd love to know about it.

My other complaint is typing and editing text.  On the PC I have the "six pack" of editing buttons such as Delete, Home, Page Up, etc.  I can modify text very quickly with these.  I haven't found the equivalent on the Mac.  If there is something, again, I'd love to hear about it.

 

[Kodi Crescent]

Service - as mentioned, I am not techy  (Shane can attest to that )  and if I have questions, I can easily get in contact with tech support - and tech support is not outsourced outside the USA. There are also free classes and even one to one training; if I so choose. I like dialing a single number, not a series of phone prompts.
Seem to built better and have fewer problems. Initial price may be higher, but my time is important and my frustration level low for dealing with poor customer service. I am willing to pay more for that.
I appreciate the fact that Apple has a handful of computers, rather than dozens and dozens like the rest. 

And they hire midgets.  You can't overlook that.

 

[joraft]

Service - as mentioned, I am not techy  (Shane can attest to that )  and if I have questions, I can easily get in contact with tech support - and tech support is not outsourced outside the USA. There are also free classes and even one to one training; if I so choose. I like dialing a single number, not a series of phone prompts.

Seem to built better and have fewer problems...

Bob, I have personally seen a very large building in Cupertino filled to the ceiling with broken Apple products, and I'm sure there are also a few broken Festool products stacked up somewhere. The point being that nothing's perfect, and much of what we hear these days is based on heresay and anecdotes. In the end, we "pays our money, and we takes our choices". Good luck on whatever you decide to do.

As for Apple products being ideal for the "non-techy", I was at a party up in Cupertino not long ago that was mostly populated by Apple employees. I made the comment that Apple computers were the perfect choice for people who didn't know much about computers. But oddly enough, my comment was not well received.  

 

[NuggyBuggy]

What I find really inefficient is when I have multiple Safari windows open.  To switch browser windows I have to mouse up to the Safari icon, right click on it, and select the desired browser.  On the PC I could Alt-tab through the list of open applications until I found what I wanted.  If you have a shortcut for doing this on the Mac, I'd love to know about it.

I don't use Safari.  But you will find that if you like keyboard shortcuts, the Mac has it in spades.
To cycle through to the next open window in the current application (e.g. Safari): Command-` .  Note that this is not a single quote, but a backtick.  In your case, it will allow you to switch between Safari windows *only*.  Of course if you want to cycle between application windows, you have Command-tab, but if you're interested in browser windows, only, no need to worry about the other apps open.

My other complaint is typing and editing text.  On the PC I have the "six pack" of editing buttons such as Delete, Home, Page Up, etc.  I can modify text very quickly with these.  I haven't found the equivalent on the Mac.  If there is something, again, I'd love to hear about it.

The following gives the PC and Mac equivalents, as far as I can figure them from using Notepad and Textedit on the Mac and PC since I rarely use the keys you ask of on the PC:
PC: delete  ---> Mac: control-D
PC: Home  ---> Mac: no equivalent that I am aware of, although I just jumped to my Windows machine and I have no idea what Home would do in Notepad anyways ?
PC: Page Up ---> Mac: No equivalent that I am aware of, although PgUp doesn't do anything in Notepad either ?
PC: Page Down --> Mac: Ctrl-V
PC: End --> Mac: Ctrl-E

Of course you probably know :
command-C : copy
command-V: paste
command-X: delete selection
command-Z: undo
command-A: select all

Since what these keys is somewhat application-specific, if I had Office installed on my Windows machine I could figure out what they are "supposed" to do better (as I said, I rarely use these Windows keys that much).

Somewhere there is a document detailing a whole whack of Mac keyboard shortcuts.

 

[Ken Nagrod]

Service - as mentioned, I am not techy  (Shane can attest to that )  and if I have questions, I can easily get in contact with tech support - and tech support is not outsourced outside the USA. There are also free classes and even one to one training; if I so choose. I like dialing a single number, not a series of phone prompts.

Seem to built better and have fewer problems...

Bob, I have personally seen a very large building in Cupertino filled to the ceiling with broken Apple products, and I'm sure there are also a few broken Festool products stacked up somewhere. The point being that nothing's perfect, and much of what we hear these days is based on heresay and anecdotes. In the end, we "pays our money, and we takes our choices". Good luck on whatever you decide to do.

As for Apple products being ideal for the "non-techy", I was at a party up in Cupertino not long ago that was mostly populated by Apple employees. I made the comment that Apple computers were the perfect choice for people who didn't know much about computers. But oddly enough, my comment was not well received. 

John, it's all in the wording you use.  Now if you said something like people that know very little about computers have an easier time using Apple, they'd be buying you drinks all night long.  Guess you weren't thirsty?  [big grin]

 

[peter halle]

Bob,

Call your local Apple store if you are interested and make an appointment with them telling them that you are interested in possibly buying a Mac.  Saves time.

Apple will never replace Windows.  It will gain market share.

Computers were designed to make our lives easier.  They have - in my opinion - have achieved that but in the end they have given us access to so many things that they have complicated.

Good Luck!

Peter

 

[joraft]

John, it's all in the wording you use.  Now if you said something like people that know very little about computers have an easier time using Apple, they'd be buying you drinks all night long.  Guess you weren't thirsty?  [big grin]

Ken, you're a true diplomat.

And to think those highly paid young whippersnappers were willing to let an opinionated, retired old woodworker buy THEM drinks all night. In the future, I'll choose my words more carefully.  [big grin]

 

[NuggyBuggy]

As for Apple products being ideal for the "non-techy", I was at a party up in Cupertino not long ago that was mostly populated by Apple employees. I made the comment that Apple computers were the perfect choice for people who didn't know much about computers. But oddly enough, my comment was not well received.  

You are right.  Apple computers are great for people who don't know much about computers.  That would only be an insult if they weren't also great for people who do know much about computers.  

By contrast, Windows machines are not great for people who don't know much about computers is that you often NEED to know a lot about them to fix all the problems they are prone to.  But they don't offer the power user anything an OS X machine doesn't.  I could script circles around a Windows machine with the shell built into a Mac, for instance.

Finally, the sheer volume of Windows machines suggests that most people who don't know much about computers must be running Windows.

 

[Kodi Crescent]

@NuggyBuggy

Thank you!  Being able to switch windows quickly makes a huge difference!  I'll adjust my opinion on OSX accordingly.

I'll look for the text editing shortcuts to see what fills my specific needs.

 

[Bob Marino]

Service - as mentioned, I am not techy  (Shane can attest to that )  and if I have questions, I can easily get in contact with tech support - and tech support is not outsourced outside the USA. There are also free classes and even one to one training; if I so choose. I like dialing a single number, not a series of phone prompts.

Seem to built better and have fewer problems...

Bob, I have personally seen a very large building in Cupertino filled to the ceiling with broken Apple products, and I'm sure there are also a few broken Festool products stacked up somewhere. The point being that nothing's perfect, and much of what we hear these days is based on heresay and anecdotes. In the end, we "pays our money, and we takes our choices". Good luck on whatever you decide to do.

As for Apple products being ideal for the "non-techy", I was at a party up in Cupertino not long ago that was mostly populated by Apple employees. I made the comment that Apple computers were the perfect choice for people who didn't know much about computers. But oddly enough, my comment was not well received.  

Ah, John, few things in life, tools or electronics are perfect. Never would expect they would be either. But I am a customer service, go to the source type guy and from I have seen - going into Bestbuy to speak with the Apple employee on hand and speaking with a couple of the APPLE STORE in the Short Hills Mall, I'm impressed.

Bob

 

[fdengel]

What I find really inefficient is when I have multiple Safari windows open.  To switch browser windows I have to mouse up to the Safari icon, right click on it, and select the desired browser.  On the PC I could Alt-tab through the list of open applications until I found what I wanted.  If you have a shortcut for doing this on the Mac, I'd love to know about it.

I don't use Safari.  But you will find that if you like keyboard shortcuts, the Mac has it in spades.
To cycle through to the next open window in the current application (e.g. Safari): Command-` .  Note that this is not a single quote, but a backtick.  In your case, it will allow you to switch between Safari windows *only*.  Of course if you want to cycle between application windows, you have Command-tab, but if you're interested in browser windows, only, no need to worry about the other apps open.

My other complaint is typing and editing text.  On the PC I have the "six pack" of editing buttons such as Delete, Home, Page Up, etc.  I can modify text very quickly with these.  I haven't found the equivalent on the Mac.  If there is something, again, I'd love to hear about it.

The following gives the PC and Mac equivalents, as far as I can figure them from using Notepad and Textedit on the Mac and PC since I rarely use the keys you ask of on the PC:
PC: delete  ---> Mac: control-D
PC: Home  ---> Mac: no equivalent that I am aware of, although I just jumped to my Windows machine and I have no idea what Home would do in Notepad anyways ?
PC: Page Up ---> Mac: No equivalent that I am aware of, although PgUp doesn't do anything in Notepad either ?
PC: Page Down --> Mac: Ctrl-V
PC: End --> Mac: Ctrl-E

Of course you probably know :
command-C : copy
command-V: paste
command-X: delete selection
command-Z: undo
command-A: select all

Since what these keys is somewhat application-specific, if I had Office installed on my Windows machine I could figure out what they are "supposed" to do better (as I said, I rarely use these Windows keys that much).

Somewhere there is a document detailing a whole whack of Mac keyboard shortcuts.

I'm guessing you guys are using the smaller keyboards; the larger Apple keyboards have those same six keys (PgUp, PgDn, etc.), though some of them behave slightly differently (Home in particular: under Windows, it moves the cursor to the beginning of the current line; on a Mac, I believe it scrolls to the top of the document, often without moving the cursor).

The normal Mac "delete" button replaces (and is equivalent to) the "Backspace" key in Windows, so the one in the so-called "six pack" on a Mac keyboard is referred to as "forward delete".

Note that you can always plug in a Windoze keyboard too if you have one; the wonders of USB...

BTW,

Page Up and Page Down move up and down a screenful, if you were testing in Notepad on a document where you were already at the top, that's why PgUp wasn't doing anything...

 

[NuggyBuggy]

I'm guessing you guys are using the smaller keyboards; the larger Apple keyboards have those same six keys (PgUp, PgDn, etc.), though some of them behave slightly differently (Home in particular: under Windows, it moves the cursor to the beginning of the current line; on a Mac, I believe it scrolls to the top of the document, often without moving the cursor).

Ah, yes.  I only have Macbook Pros, so have never had the luxury of those extra keys !

 

[fdengel]

I'm guessing you guys are using the smaller keyboards; the larger Apple keyboards have those same six keys (PgUp, PgDn, etc.), though some of them behave slightly differently (Home in particular: under Windows, it moves the cursor to the beginning of the current line; on a Mac, I believe it scrolls to the top of the document, often without moving the cursor).

Ah, yes.  I only have Macbook Pros, so have never had the luxury of those extra keys !

The Mac Pro comes with the keyboard "with numeric keypad" (which also includes the "extra" keys we are talking about), and the iMacs offer it as a BTO option on the web site.

I don't think missing those particular "extra" keys would really bother me that much on a Mac, so if you aren't used to them for some reason, no reason to feel like you are missing out.   ;D

 

[peter halle]

Hey Bob,

I am not the Apple Store guru guys, and I am not an expert like so many here, but if you go Mac, let me know and I will come visit you to help with in any way.

Heck, I have wanted to meet you in person for a long time anyway!

Peter

 

[Bob Marino]

Hey Bob,

I am not the Apple Store guru guys, and I am not an expert like so many here, but if you go Mac, let me know and I will come visit you to help with in any way.

Heck, I have wanted to meet you in person for a long time anyway!

Peter

  Hey Pete,

Thanks, but that's a long drive up to NJ for tech help, but plan a trip up anyhooo, like to meet you too!

Bob

 

[Ken Nagrod]

Bob, Peter told me a while ago he's been interested in meeting with the NJ/PA/NY crowd.  Wouldn't be a bad idea to do a little get together if there's time in his schedule.

 

[tiralie]

I made the comment that Apple computers were the perfect choice for people who didn't know much about computers. But oddly enough, my comment was not well received.  

Ironic, as this is how they differentiated their brand (the computer for everyone else) from the rest, or did I miss the point of the "1984" ad? When I visited the Apple (Cuppertino) offices in '94 I was very impressed with the design of their offices.

As a confession, I used Apple products from 1987-88 till about 1996 or so. While they were very well made, hardware updates were extremely expensive. I think that problem has largely been resolved with the newer machines, and I was always a big fan of the NEXT operating system.

I have gotten used to using a PC and really can't be bothered to going back to an Apple.

IMHO, Steve Jobs is the driving force to new product innovation at apple and I believe the analysts are correct when they say that Apple as a company is at risk when he moves on. While there are many competent folks working at Apple that could replace him on the product development side of things, unless they are the CEO and have the authority to direct the company to new and innovative products, it is unlikely apple will be able to maintain their status.

While this (view) does not affect the overall quality of the current machines, it will certainly affect Apples overall financial health and their ability to compete with Win based machines.

Tim

 

[fdengel]

While this (view) does not affect the overall quality of the current machines, it will certainly affect Apples overall financial health and their ability to compete with Win based machines.

Apparently you missed the news:

http://www.macrumors.com/2011/04/28/apple-beats-microsoft-in-first-quarter-profit/

 

[NuggyBuggy]

While this (view) does not affect the overall quality of the current machines, it will certainly affect Apples overall financial health and their ability to compete with Win based machines.

Apparently you missed the news:

http://www.macrumors.com/2011/04/28/apple-beats-microsoft-in-first-quarter-profit/

I think Tim's point is that once Steve Jobs leaves or passes away, all bets are off.  Apple has not done much to show us that there are any visionaries in that company besides Jobs.  Maybe that's Jobs' ego at work, but  I don't think it's good for the long term prospects of the company.

 

[tiralie]

Apparently you missed the news:

http://www.macrumors.com/2011/04/28/apple-beats-microsoft-in-first-quarter-profit/

No, I saw it, but thanks. I have always been impressed with Apple and their product design and marketing prowess despite having less capital than the Win/PC vendors as a group do. I have always wanted to short the stock, but never have. Luckily, because I could have taken a real bath both now and in the past.

My post was not meant to dissuade anyone from buying an Apple over any other machine but merely meant as an observation. I believe anyone looking at buying a new computer should buy one that suits their needs and one that you comfortable using.

The press loves to compare Apple and Microsoft, mostly because Apple keeps doing it and has done a great job marketing their their brand as "products people use". To me comparing Apple to Microsoft like this is like comparing well "apples to oranges". While both are public "tech" companies and often portrayed as rivals, IMHO they are both in different businesses. Microsoft is primarily a software company while Apple remains a vertically integrated computer company offering "holistic" products and experiences.
Tim