Makita Power tools

[jmbfestool]

Darcy,  I've been doing testing for Milwaukee with their M12 and M18 line of tools last year and this year.  Their batteries have improved for the most part because the engineers reset the safety limits on the thermal cutouts.  Previously you could actually burn out their motors because the batteries kept delivering power beyond the tool's overload point.  In my testing they've substantially surpassed other brands.  The only thing I still don't like that I've found on other brands as well, the lithium ion batteries performance falls drastically in temperatures below 40 F, sometimes not even performing just below freezing as if they were dead when they had a full charge.  That's why I'll never get rid of my corded stuff.  Hopefully they'll send me the new M28 line to test.  At some point the stuff just gets too heavy for real world use.

Yeah they have improved. I know a few people who own the V28 Milwaukee SDS drills and they have all had battery problems.  The new M12 M18 and now M28 range (the M28 is just same tools just new batteries though sucks really would like to see new tools) have battery protection.  I have had no problems with my M18 range  even in very very cold just stick them on the charger for 5 mins and they are full again. The thing is the cold affects all cordless tools.

Makita(higher end brands) at the moment now have the worst batteries here in the UK any way. They dont have any battery protection. My dealer wont sell any makita any more because he was getting loads of people coming back with battery problems.

JMB

 

[Ken Nagrod]

JMB,

Here's some info for you in regards to your previous post.  I was curious about what you said having to do with the Milwaukee V28 and M28 tools, but I've been too busy to investigate till today.  I called my product manager at Milwaukee, the one I've done the testing for, and besides some other questions I had, I posed your response to him.  The new M28 line is using a much better battery, which I was already aware of.  The drill and flashlight are totally redesigned from scratch.  All of the other V28 tools are the same using the newer M28 batteries.  Hope that helps clear things up for anyone interested or curious.  I'm still working on getting the basic set from them for comparison testing.

 

[jmbfestool]

JMB,

Here's some info for you in regards to your previous post.  I was curious about what you said having to do with the Milwaukee V28 and M28 tools, but I've been too busy to investigate till today.  I called my product manager at Milwaukee, the one I've done the testing for, and besides some other questions I had, I posed your response to him.  The new M28 line is using a much better battery, which I was already aware of.  The drill and flashlight are totally redesigned from scratch.   All of the other V28 tools are the same using the newer M28 batteries.  Hope that helps clear things up for anyone interested or curious.  I'm still working on getting the basic set from them for comparison testing.

Yes I know about the drill not the flash light though but dont use them any way . Cheers any way.

 but you gotta think why do people want 28V?! (M28) is power and normally not saying always but they want a small light but powerfull drill which is what 18V (M18) or other tools 18v or lower can deliver but when they are thinking in terms of 28V power they think of SDS drills and Circular saws  I would of thought at least them two tools would be redesigned and they would be helping to promote the new M28 range.  

Alot of site lads ask me about tools because I own a lot  and do a lot of research and ask me what 28V or higher SDS drill should they get. They never say what 18V SDS should they get.  Just a thought!!

I own most M18 range which is my ''SITE'' tools and my festool gear is more for kitchen fitting kinda work.

I must admit Milwaukee service has been a lot better than festool has dont get me wrong Festool has giving me good service brilliant but you cant beat a brand new replacement within a week 3 times in a row can you?!?!?!?!   I seem to be very unlucky with drills!! lol  I bought the T15+3 Festool drill the day it came out in the UK and it broke they repaired it broke they damaged it while repairing it so they replaced with a new one to say sorry and that broke 3 weeks later I now have the same drill repaired and its still going touch wood!! I was thinking I just want my money back but I loved the drill I just wanted the drill to work!      

I had same problem with Milwueakee M18 Impact drill after one month it lost power it sounded fine but it wouldnt screw the screws in very fast and bounces you out of the screw like it had to much impact. No problem straight swap brilliant 3 months later same thing no power straight swap again. 6 months or so again no power another swap  so far so good its still going fine touch wood.  Notice no repairs and no week waiting for repair now thats good!

I have had no problems with any other festool or Milwaukee gear!  I think drills dont like me lol

JMB

Hello Ken just a question with the M18 batteries when you press the button the light turn on indicating how much battery is left right BUT when you hold the button in the battery starts flashing and then each light flashes on its own till all four have flashed and then they all flash again and the process  repeats and then it stops.  I think its some sort of testing going on. I own 8x M18 batteries and done it on all of them and they all do it so it isnt just one faulty battery. I asked my dealer and he has no idea I didnt know it did that. I curious to why and if it is something why don't Milwaukee tell you.

JMB

 

[Ken Nagrod]

Hi JMB.

I have to agree with you about the fact that at some point you just have to say, "Do I really need a 6 gazillion volt battery powered tool?"  Even though I'm still interested in testing out the M28 line, from previous experiments holding their V28 drill, it's just too heavy for real jobsite or workshop use.  It was very powerful, but at the cost of lugging that around, I went with the 18 volt and I'm very happy.  Their other 28 volt tools like the circ saw and Sawzall would be useful when there's no power or you just don't feel like setting up a generator.  The 18 volt circ saw and Sawzall is good for quick stuff, but doesn't come close to equalling the output we'd need for tough jobsite use compared to corded versions.  In the end, my advice is try it and if it works for you, great!  If not, return it.

I'd love to hear your thoughts or anyone elses on the 36 volt DeWalt stuff.  Seriously, what's the point.  Eventually these companys will keep trying to one-up each other and we'll be plugging in car batteries to their tools.  I'm ok with that as long as mine's on wheels.

I leave my Milwaukees drills for the heavier duty abusive stuff and use my C12 mainly for my cabinetry and interior trim stuff, so that may be why I've never had a problem with my Festool drill.

 

[jmbfestool]

Hi JMB.

I have to agree with you about the fact that at some point you just have to say, "Do I really need a 6 gazillion volt battery powered tool?"  Even though I'm still interested in testing out the M28 line, from previous experiments holding their V28 drill, it's just too heavy for real jobsite or workshop use.  It was very powerful, but at the cost of lugging that around, I went with the 18 volt and I'm very happy.  Their other 28 volt tools like the circ saw and Sawzall would be useful when there's no power or you just don't feel like setting up a generator.  The 18 volt circ saw and Sawzall is good for quick stuff, but doesn't come close to equalling the output we'd need for tough jobsite use compared to corded versions.  In the end, my advice is try it and if it works for you, great!  If not, return it.

I'd love to hear your thoughts or anyone elses on the 36 volt DeWalt stuff.  Seriously, what's the point.  Eventually these companys will keep trying to one-up each other and we'll be plugging in car batteries to their tools.  I'm ok with that as long as mine's on wheels.

I leave my Milwaukees drills for the heavier duty abusive stuff and use my C12 mainly for my cabinetry and interior trim stuff, so that may be why I've never had a problem with my Festool drill.

Problem in the UK you cant do that. You cant just buy a tools and bring it back if you dont like it. It has to be faulty or if it doesnt do what it says on the TIN for a refund or swap. Well like I mentioned above my Festool T15 broke with in 4 days and I didnt even get a new one it was repaired only when it was repaired again and came back damaged was it swapped for new but that was only good will.

Well I was working with a bloke who was a POWER type of bloke so of course them type go for dewalt lol I call them rough joiners.  Well I didnt like using any of the tools they felt MASSIVE and heavy I must admit the 36V circular saw was good.  We was cutting the bottom of a 5 foot wide 60mm thick door made of solid oak with it and it was cutting it couldnt believe it battery powered! I dont think the batteries last that long ( I know I know they wont last long in the oak door but I mean in general use) The drill well horrible the battery it self felt bigger than my T15 lol.

JMB

 

[TJ Cornish]

I've got both the Dewalt 36 volt kit and the big 18v Nano drill and impact driver.  I just bought the T15.  They are both horses for courses - as you say the Dewalt 36v saw is incredible.  The recip saw is equally good.  The drill is very big, but I've used it like crazy doing things that would have been hard for most corded drills.

More and more I'm finding just how little there is in common between finish carpentry and general work.  The Dewalt gear will continue to be used for bigger jobs, but I have enjoyed the finesse of the T15 and the other Festools I have had a chance to work with on the more delicate projects on the docket recently.

 

[Deansocial]

Hi JMB.

I have to agree with you about the fact that at some point you just have to say, "Do I really need a 6 gazillion volt battery powered tool?"  Even though I'm still interested in testing out the M28 line, from previous experiments holding their V28 drill, it's just too heavy for real jobsite or workshop use.  It was very powerful, but at the cost of lugging that around, I went with the 18 volt and I'm very happy.  Their other 28 volt tools like the circ saw and Sawzall would be useful when there's no power or you just don't feel like setting up a generator.  The 18 volt circ saw and Sawzall is good for quick stuff, but doesn't come close to equalling the output we'd need for tough jobsite use compared to corded versions.  In the end, my advice is try it and if it works for you, great!  If not, return it.

I'd love to hear your thoughts or anyone elses on the 36 volt DeWalt stuff.  Seriously, what's the point.  Eventually these companys will keep trying to one-up each other and we'll be plugging in car batteries to their tools.  I'm ok with that as long as mine's on wheels.

I leave my Milwaukees drills for the heavier duty abusive stuff and use my C12 mainly for my cabinetry and interior trim stuff, so that may be why I've never had a problem with my Festool drill.

Problem in the UK you cant do that. You cant just buy a tools and bring it back if you dont like it. It has to be faulty or if it doesnt do what it says on the TIN for a refund or swap. Well like I mentioned above my Festool T15 broke with in 4 days and I didnt even get a new one it was repaired only when it was repaired again and came back damaged was it swapped for new but that was only good will.

Well I was working with a bloke who was a POWER type of bloke so of course them type go for dewalt lol I call them rough joiners.   Well I didnt like using any of the tools they felt MASSIVE and heavy I must admit the 36V circular saw was good.  We was cutting the bottom of a 5 foot wide 60mm thick door made of solid oak with it and it was cutting it couldnt believe it battery powered! I dont think the batteries last that long ( I know I know they wont last long in the oak door but I mean in general use) The drill well horrible the battery it self felt bigger than my T15 lol.

JMB

they all have there purpose, The 36v dewalt is great for drilling big hole where there is no power, something the t15 cant do. thats because they are a complete different type of tool. its like the ts75 is great but useless when i want to cut a roof, underpowered and wrong type of tool for the job.

 

[jmbfestool]

Whats size holes you talking about?!?!?!  Im sure the T+15 can do holes just as big as the Dewalt drill can not saying I would I rather use the dewalt id much rather burn the dewalt out thats why. I used the Dewalt 36v and didnt think it had a WOW factor for power.  Like I said the only thing what impressed me was the circular saw.

Any way I would never buy Dewalt so. I own a 18V Dewalt circular saw (Link below shows the circular saw)  its still 200GBP I wouldnt even pay 30GBP for is its waits of time all its good for is cutting 4mm hardboard and even then it will struggle if you dont keep it dead straight and the batteries I own 4 batteries and they are all dying. So thats put me off every buying any dewalt. Aswell as my mates dewalt drill batteries stopped working and many more reasons but ill stop here.

http://www.screwfix.com/prods/52760/Power-Tools/Circular-Saws/DeWalt-DW936-18V-136mm-Circular-Saw-Bare?cm_mmc=GoogleBase-_-Datafeed-_-Power%20Tools-_-DeWalt%20DW936%2018V%20136mm%20Circular%20Saw%20-%20Bare

 

[nickao]

The T-15 is not going to slam in many 3-4" holes or 1" holes 12" to 18"deep for very long. All the electrician, plumbers and Demo laborers I know all use the 36V stuff for the heavy work.  The 36V De Walt tools take a abuse and are just a different animals than a T-15 or the Festool cordless stuff. It's brute force verse finesse. The T-15 is a baby compared to the big 36V DeWalt tools. Those 36V weigh a ton and simply are much more powerful than any 15 or 18 volt units.

Funny people say they will never buy certain name brands. DeWalt makes some tools that are better than any or most on the market, so does Milwaukee and Makita and Bosch. If you take it tool by tool there a several brands that beat out some Festools as well. I never understood staying away From entire brands, I stay away from certain tools, but not entire brands. You are excluding your self from some of the best tools. I have loads of Festools, but I don't turn up my nose at any tool that performs well.

 

[jmbfestool]

The T-15 is not going to slam in many 3-4" holes or 1" holes 12" to 18"deep for very long. All the electrician, plumbers and Demo laborers I know all use the 36V stuff for the heavy work.  The 36V De Walt tools take a abuse and are just a different animals than a T-15 or the Festool cordless stuff. It's brute force verse finesse. The T-15 is a baby compared to the big 36V DeWalt tools. Those 36V weigh a ton and simply are much more powerful than any 15 or 18 volt units.

Funny people say they will never buy certain name brands. DeWalt makes some tools that are better than any or most on the market, so does Milwaukee and Makita and Bosch. If you take it tool by tool there a several brands that beat out some Festools as well. I never understood staying away From entire brands, I stay away from certain tools, but not entire brands. You are excluding your self from some of the best tools. I have loads of Festools, but I don't turn up my nose at any tool that performs well.

Well no.  I also own ALOT of other brands and I ageee they all have some bad tools and some good but I find dewalt has more band than good compared to other brands of the same class  or should I say what dewalts charges if they charged less for some tools I would say some of the tools I think arnt very good would be fine for a lower price. but I must admit I tend to favour aG Garman brand tool straight away more than another tool.  All german tools I own have all been brilliant Festool ofcorse is one of them.  I think Germans just seem to know how to make good stuff.  Like my mum had to replace here washing machine last week lasted over 11 years it was a Miele which is german again ofcorse bought another Miele but most brands seems to only last top 5 years alot go at 3 years.    German engineering Rocks!  So if its German im more likely to buy it  dewalt isnt so another reason y I dont wanna buy dewalt.

JMB

 

[TJ Cornish]

Whats size holes you talking about?!?!?!  Im sure the T+15 can do holes just as big as the Dewalt drill can not saying I would I rather use the dewalt id much rather burn the dewalt out thats why. I used the Dewalt 36v and didnt think it had a WOW factor for power. 

The Dewalt 36v drill will do a 1 1/2" auger bit.  In second gear (1200RPM).  All day long. 

I think a lot of comparisons are flawed when they compare a well-used tool with half-dead batteries to a brand new tool.  I'm sorry your experience was bad, but it doesn't reflect the experiences of a huge ton of carpenters who use pretty much nothing but Yellow. 

I will agree with you that 18v circular saws are a waste of time.

 

[jmbfestool]

Good!  At least agree with something! Saying a well used tool I would expect a tool to be performing pretty much the same a year later really if not that to me would have to go back for warranty.

but you will find most them carpenters are Americans or others on the other side of the pond I dont see that many carpenters in the UK now really the only dewalt im seeing now is the dewalt Chop saws.  Alot seem to be going with Makita tools. I have spoken to many carpenters and they would agree with me that dewalt isnt that good any more.  Even my good carpenter buddy who wears dewalt cloths who was a dewalt fan has said dewalt isnt as good any more. He said now if any of is gear goes he will replace with Festool or Milwueakee now thats coming from some one who used to be big on dewalt.  My local dealer wont sell any dewalt he says its crap soo?! Dont know but over where you are dewalt gear is made better but uk it isnt that great maybe??.

JMB

 

[Ken Nagrod]

I've got to say that I'm surprised in the responses on here about the popularity of the 36 volt De Walt line.  I thought guys would just prefer the corded stuff when faced with the size and weight of those tools.  It's been an enlightening thread.  Anybody have real use experience with Bosch's top voltage tools?  I believe they're 24 volt?

 

[jmbfestool]

No,  Bosch also do 36v  but low Ah like 1.5  maybe you can get higher now not looked I was put of with the low Ah so wasnt interested with the 36V Bosch. I have seen few people with the Cordless 36V SDS drill but not used it my self so I can not comment.  I the thing I can comment on with Bosch is their 10.8V Impact and drill!  RUBBISH! lol  Expensive and lack of power.  My mate bought the Makita 10.8v set in a case for same price as one Bosch.   We did few tests the bosch batterie charges quicker by 10 mins  (We couldnt be bothered to test how long they last though)  We did test how fast they would screw 100mm screw in softwood and the Makita screwed it right down below the wood and back out before the bosch stopped 15mm above the wood and couldnt screw the screw in any more.  I now own the Bosch and Makita because after that I went out and bought the Makita 10.8V   Unfortunately Milwaukee soon after brought out their 12V range I havent tried their impact drill but I wasnt going to buy another one any way.

JMB

 

[Guy Ashley]

Ken

I have a Bosch GBH24 SDS and it is the "mutts nuts" as far as I am concerned, lot of power, good battery life and I predominately use it for drilling holes in brick or stone to then in frame fixings 12mm x 120mm or 150mm.

Whilst there are advantages to corded, last year I fitted a 3 storey house with replacement oak windows and being up a scaffolding it is an advatage not to have cables all over.

It is not too heavy but not too sure I would want to use it all day

Guy

 

[Ken Nagrod]

Guy that sounds like a good choice for that application.  I've never had a chance to try out a battery powered rotary hammer.  Just looked at their joule ratings in the past and thought they weren't a good choice for me, but maybe that's wrong.  I don't use mine that often anyway so I'm not sure I'd invest in a battery powered one.  I have 2 corded Makitas, the D handle sds plus and a big sds max.  For the small stuff I just use the hammer drill feature on my 18v Milwaukee.  Maybe at a trade show I'll try one of those bigger batt powered units just to see.

 

[Deansocial]

well i can drill a 30mm hole in concrete or bash a hole in a brick wall with 1, can the t15 do that eh NO. like i said apples for apples. My t15 is broke again for the 3rd time. the dewalt has never broke. my 18v 5 year old dewalt drill has only had a new trigger and still works great. their plunge saw is also v good and made in germany. They are the only people i know that make a 24v chop saw that actually works, i cut 9x3 with 1 the other week. there is alot of makita around here too but there is alot more dewalt.

 

[Ken Nagrod]

Sorry to hear about your T15 troubles Dean.  Who do you use to repair them all 3 times?  Festool themselves or an authorized repair shop?

Anybody have any opinions on another German brand that's been in the states for some time, Metabo?

 

[Deansocial]

been repaired twice by festool and i have lost my warranty agrement now so it is still broke but it is only the break that is broke. I have a metabo sander that does its job just fine for me, i had a cordless drill 10 years ago that lasted 2 month. i spoke to a dealer about the drill resently and he said it was at a time metabo tried to save some money but it didnt work so they reverted to what they did before

 

[jmbfestool]

well i can drill a 30mm hole in concrete or bash a hole in a brick wall with 1, can the t15 do that eh NO. like i said apples for apples. My t15 is broke again for the 3rd time. the dewalt has never broke. my 18v 5 year old dewalt drill has only had a new trigger and still works great. their plunge saw is also v good and made in germany. They are the only people i know that make a 24v chop saw that actually works, i cut 9x3 with 1 the other week. there is alot of makita around here too but there is alot more dewalt.

I wasnt on about hammer mode thats like saying use a circular saw to cut through bricks  my stile saw will cut through bricks all day. No drill is any good at hammer mode if you wanna drill holes in a wall use a hammer drill SDS  what the point paying more money for a drill making the drill larger and heavier just so you have a crappy hammer feature on it.  A drill is for screwing and drilling holes in wood and a SDS is for masonry thats final.

JMB