Member-Only Access

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You could also make guests view all topics without restrictions, and make them wait say 30 seconds after they have clicked 5 topics.
While they're waiting to view the info they want, you can show them a text describing the benefits of joining FOG. A lot of download sites like rapidshare etc work that way
 
Nickao, I would think of your suggestion as the minimum needed to maintain the current membership level, but I don't think it would be better at getting members than full guest access with ads.

I completely understand how it is with a website attracting too much work. My website is a rotting, boring, blog which at this point is more intended to repel work more than anything.

For FOG, the stated goal is attracting new members and building the community to enhance the site's appeal to the market. There are a few good examples I can think of which follow the same model, where the critical mass of membership combined with key ultra-qualified members produces the right culture for long term success. I think the perfect example is the AV Science Forums which are run by a dealer of high-end AV equipment. The forums have ads even for members, which is somewhat annoying, but then again, they have more than a quarter million users, which gets them into the space where they have to match the bandwidth scale with the revenue generation. Even though it is run by a dealer, they essentially treat it as a separate entity and don't try any lowbrow self promotion in the interest of maintaing the community. It is the go-to site for anyone getting av equipment, and it is also prime space for both dealers and manufacturers to advertise. I'm sure it is much more than self-sustaining. I could name a handful of other sites and do a complete competitive analysis, but that is getting way to much like work for me :)

While I personally prefer guest access to everything, it isn't unusual for guest access to certain forums with restricted access to others. It would be easier to implement and maintain than a separate blog sort of preview area, and fits better with the community driven nature of this type of forum. I could possibly see a potential benefit from keeping the ability for guests to access "Festool tools in general" "Sales Zone" and "Festool Connections", while making the other sections of the site members-only. Prohibiting non-member access to "Festool Tools In Action" section would be a decent reason to push someone to join, with minimal impact in terms of getting new people to the site. Guests could see the culture here from "Festool Tools in General" and the sales and connections areas, and then decide to sign up so they can see the cool member projects and jigs and such in "Festool Tools in Action". The off topic stuff is probably better to keep from the search engines anyway.

I guess I'll just state it one more time: I think guests are this site's most precious natural resource, and while they should be enticed to join, they shouldn't be asked to leave.

I just want to touch on one more topic, that of sponsorship. Matthew hasn't said too much about it, but has insinuated a little bit. I would love to see dealers and other hand-picked sponsors getting a little bit of real estate here. It seems natural for Festool to offer some form of sponsorship to this site, and if dealers, or other folks - like those with their own web sites - wanted to do some sponsorship (other than a donation), I know it wouldn't bother me. This topic isn't about sponsorship or ad space, so I'll end it here, with the observation that we're likely to be having that discussion one way or the other in the next few months :)

I just hope random google ads don't suddenly appear on father's day!

Does anyone watch formula 1? I think Festool should sponsor the Honda team; they already seem to be wearing festool green!
 
Matthew -

How about requiring registration to see the images?  We all want pictures.  That gives you search visibility to promote the forum, provides context, but enourages non-members to register to SEE the details.  I also like the idea of advertising for non-members - adwords or banners.

I agree with most - open access propagates the knowledge.  Registration, if you decide to require it could be simplified to user name and password to start with follow-on details like location, interests, etc.  But my bigger concern is potentilly falling off the radar from Google and the other search tools.  And losing the exposure that we believe creates and sustains the community over time.

Appreciate all that you have done and your openness in discussing this.

neil
 
Depending on the way you post pics guests can see em or not.
For example if you add pics to your thread using the gallery (URL address for an image) all guests can see em.
If you use the attachements they cant.
 
Good Morning,
Timmy C pretty much nailed the central issues in his last post!

Everyone, please keep in mind that, even though this forum is quite open, it is still difficult for me to always communicate all relevant details about decisions I have to make.

This site has grown tremendously, and I've got big plans for the future.  But I need to figure out how to make sure the site's true level of activity, and value, is better known.  This goes beyond donations...way beyond.  Think sending a message...think links...think ways to help professional members...think international.

By the way, I have learned to play the search engines like a fine-tuned guitar.  For example, go to Google and do a search for "festool" and "members only" and see what you find!

Looking for a solution.

In the meantime, looks like this is officially a debate and not an announcement!

Matthew
 
Daviddubya said:
...
I'll go out on a limb, and make a prediction.  There will be a surge in new members shortly after you close the forum to guests, simply because those interested in continuing to view the forum will be forced to register.  After the initial surge, the new member count will drop off, because potential members do not have the ability to check out the site before joining.

I am a member at a number of sites, both forums and commercial sites, that offer something I want.  I cannot think of a single case where I joined a site the first time I visited that site.  I always want to browse first, to see if the site interests me.  I am suspicious of sites that require registration from the start.

I suspect your objectives will be better served if you can find a way to allow guests on a limited basis.  Surely, guests are your primary source for new members.
This is exactly what I predicted away back in the third reply in this thread.  I agree very much with youir advice to Matthew.
 
Matthew Schenker said:
Good Morning,
...
In the meantime, looks like this is officially a debate and not an announcement!

Matthew
Matthew I am glad that you decided against making previously announced change today to 'member only viewing' and I hope (for the sake of the health of this forum) that this restriction is never implemented.
 
Frank Pellow said:
Matthew I am glad that you decided against making previously announced change today to 'member only viewing' and I hope (for the sake of the health of this forum) that this restriction is never implemented.

Frank and I frequently see things differently, but several times have agreed, which I find satisfying.

This is one of those times.  I agree 100% with Frank.

Ned
 
Everyone,
I'm happy to open this up, and even to admit the whole idea of members-only approach was a mistake.  Then again, I do need to address the underlying reasons behind this discussion.  As always, this forum benefits from healthy debate.
Matthew
 
Michael Kellough said:
Matthew Schenker said:
Good Morning,
Timmy C pretty much nailed the central issues in his last post!

Matthew, I read that post and didn't get it.
Could you summarize what the issue is?
Inquiring minds want to know.

I wonder if that is because I don't know where I am at with regards to my orientation "about" Che?  ;D
 
Timmy C said:
Michael Kellough said:
Matthew Schenker said:
Good Morning,
Timmy C pretty much nailed the central issues in his last post!

Matthew, I read that post and didn't get it.
Could you summarize what the issue is?
Inquiring minds want to know.

I wonder if that is because I don't know where I am at with regards to my orientation "about" Che?   ;D

Timmy, Che is dead, get over it  ???

Seriously, I didn't get your post becuase it was long, full of unfamiliar technical details, and you made observations from a couple of different perspectives. So, I really don't know what Matthews concerns are. I know he wants to convert guest/lurkers into members but to what purpose? Why make drastic changes in the accessability of the FOG is cost is not a serious issue?

Matthew's response to the universal dissaproval of the members only policy included this paragraph,

"I need to boost membership for various reasons.  This might sound odd, but I know that a lot of sales-related outfits are using this forum.  I have no problem with that, but I'd like it better if they were contributors, or at least searchable members!  You might ask, what's the big deal if sales outfits use the forum but don't sign up?  Hmm...what's the big deal?  Very good question..."

It is a good question and I wish he would answer it. He implies that the answer is in your post but I don't get it. Get it?  ;)
 
Michael,
I'm going to try and answer you.  But I warn you, the answer is really difficult to pin down.  I'm going to wander to explain this.

First, let me say clearly that this does not have to do with money.  We have addressed financial matters through the donation discussion.

OK, now let me try to get at this...
This forum has always been, for me, a creation, an experiment, a way to answer some questions: how many other Festool users are out there, how do they use their tools, do they have things in common, is there a method of work represented by this kind of tool system?  Remember, this forum was a shot in the dark almost five years ago (Yahoo days).  It was a response to what I saw as weird hostility towards Festool tool owners in other forums, even hostility towards a certain attitude about woodworking.  I felt pretty strongly about wanting to make sense of all this back five years ago, but I had no clue it would end up being what it is today!

In the intervening years, those same questions have persisted, but they have grown more interesting to me, with even more implications.  Today, I not only have the same goals I had back then, but I also have all kinds of messages from individual members expressing their opinions and ideas, I have thousands of forum posts, and I have numbers that reveal trends and possibilities...and I have this excitement of pushing it to the next level.  That next level is activity -- measurable activity, visible activity.  What else can I make of this forum?  Remember, as big as the forum has become, it's never changed from its simple roots as an extension of my woodworking hobby.  That's at the root of the open, community-driven structure of this forum.  You can't get interesting or useful answers if you control the answers, right?  But another angle is this: I believe people who make use of our hard work and our thoughts and projects ought to contribute somehow.

Two recent concepts sprang form this: the tool contests, and members-only visits.

The contest is kind of my way of creating more visual examples of the things that got me interested in this forum in the first place.  I openly admit, I'm only a hobby woodworker.  I'm nowhere near as good as most woodworkers in this forum.  There are professionals in this forum whose work deserves more visibility.  I've spoken personally with a few pros on this forum who talk about their work, and how they've been hurt by the recent downturn in the economy (for example) and that gets me thinking about the original purpose of this forum as a display of a certain way of doing woodworking.  But it's not just pros.  There are hobby woodworkers here who do amazing work.  I see the contest as a way to push members to show what they've got.  It's already pushed me to work harder.  I really think the contest will achieve its purpose.

The members-only thing relates to my longstanding need to get more measurable representation (see our discussions on international polling, for example).  I absoloutely admit, the members-only way to do it was a misstep -- but maybe not a total loss.  I still believe there might be a way to thread this needle.  But believge me, I've dropped the idea of members-only!

The reason I liked Timmy C's post is because he was kind of getting at the difficulty of pulling all the trends together for success.  He was talking about business, and I am talking about a forum, but they are analogous.  To the person running the business, or the forum, there seems to be a clear path, and you know you want to try certain things.  But when you try to explain it, the whole thing kind of collapses.

Matthew
 
Just playin' Mike, sorry if it was taken the wrong way.

I have not spoken with Matthew directly, however, these were my main points summed up:

1. There are numerous "sales outfits" that utilize the FOG for marketing purposes.  These SO's are not registered users therefore do not have to play by the same rules.  Perhaps these SO's are competition to Festool?  Perhaps they are exploiting the FOG for their own gain?  Personally, I do not like this.  I cannot speak for all the reputable dealers that have their names show up in green, ie.  Bob Marino, Anthony, Force, Bill in Seattle, FJ, et. al.  It sounds like Matthew is all over the tracking, but cannot match IP (internet identification) with the individual posting or lurking.  These people should play by the the same rules that the dealers currently registered are playing by...sales related pitches should be in the Sales Zone.

2.  Gathering information is crucial to pitching the site to Festool Branches world wide.  Example: For me, e-commerce is viable as a business model.  However, more often than not, Lending Institutions do not recognize e-commerce as a viable approach to doing business.  I simply can't go to a bank with an idea; I must have concrete numbers to substantiate my position.  I have this many visitors, I have this many registered accounts, My average sale is "X", I convert this many visitors to a sale, etc.  If Matthew wants to take the FOG to other Festool Branches, he must be able to substantiate his claim that the site is worthy of "whatever his goal is." 

REAL NUMBERS AS TO FORUM USAGE IS CRUCIAL.  THE ONLY WAY TO GET THAT IS TO REGISTER MEMBERS. 

Furthermore, the ability to see those who are using the FOG form commercial endeavors is crucial as well.

Sean had some great stuff in the post that followed, and there are some wonderful ideas with regards to SEO and conversion.  Conversions being where we take a lurker and convert them to membership (this is only one example of conversion.  Another possible conversion may be "Posting a Reply" to a marked thread?

It is my opinion that $$$ is not the issue.  It is my opinion that growing the FOG, and moving to higher echelon of existence; International exposure is the goal here.

EDIT :  Sorry about the late posting there.  Came back from a phone call, and looky there, there was Matthew.
 
Matthew Schenker said:
Michael,
I'm going to try and answer you.  But I warn you, the answer is really difficult to pin down.  I'm going to wander to explain this.

...But when you try to explain it, the whole things kind of collapses.

Matthew

I kind of get it...
but not really.

I understand the basics of a web based forum but you are so far ahead of me...

It seems like the difference between residential electrical work, which I thoroughly understand,
and electronics, which is completely over my head.

But, I look forward to what you come up with.
 
Michael Kellough said:
I kind of get it...
but not really.

I understand the basics of a web based forum but you are so far ahead of me...

It seems like the difference between residential electrical work, which I thoroughly understand,
and electronics, which is completely over my head. ...

Nah, more like the difference between Guiness and water after a tough night bowling.

The thing is, getting into this kind of detail is a bit messy, as it is in any community of smart, opinionated, energetic people.  I've always tried to keep this forum really open, but I have not always opened the mush for everyone to see like this.  In this case, I made a mistake and it required an explanation.  It's not the norm, I promise!

Matthew
 
Hm, as a registered lurker here, who *loves* the forum (I read it sometimes every day, otherwise
every week), I have to ask this:

How will guests know how valuable it is to join if they can't read the forum?

A simple list of the benefits will not do it. At least for me, I had to be drawn into a discussion,
and the only way to do that is to be able to read more than a few threads, top to bottom.

It took me a few weeks of lurking before I registered ( I think it probably was when I first *had*
to see someone's homebuilt MFT).

What I'm saying here is that in order to increase membership, see what makes people cross over
from guest to member. A poll, perhaps:

Why did you sign up instead of remain a guest?
    a: wanted to view image reserved for members
    b: wanted to participate in discussion thread
    c: wanted to ask question of an experienced member
    d: wanted to ask question about upcoming tool purchase
    e: wanted to show my festool-related work and get comments
    f: am a dealer, wanted to expand references and help people use the tools
    g: wanted to join in bickering for sense of comraderie
    h: couldn't read anything, just wanted to see what forum was about

For me it was either A or B, I forget. But there's no way I would have joined "on faith", there are
just too many sites and (sadly) in this day & age the ones that make you register first are
almost always the ones that aren't so good. That would have been a total loss for me, as
I've learned so much here, but I wouldn't have know what i was missing, and that
gets to the crux: the person who doesn't register has to know what they are missing, otherwise
there will be no reason to register. And they can't know what they are missing if they can't see
glimpses of the forum.

 
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