MFT Upgrade! Incra LS Positioner Incremental System vs. Table Saw Fence on MFT/3

[festoller]

I had a new idea how to build a proper extension to hold the Positioner or any other addition such as a router table. Using two of the MFT/3 connectors (just like the ones to connect two guide rails, but thicker) is one way or maybe half, because some feet would be needed to reinforce the extension to hold a router with table.

Buying the MFT/3 VL extension is possible (at least here in Europe), but then you would need the CMS Router module and your budget is already over the top for the MFT-VL. Since the CMS Module is pretty thin (aluminum) building or customizing your own router table top for the MFT Extension is probably not that easy because of this thickness. The only thing that could work is a proper sized aluminum plate, but then I guess you get near the cost for the Festool module.

While writing the review of the new Kapex extension KA-UG

Kapex Extension

and its additional use as an MFT/3 extension, I had the idea to order two of these feet and attach them to the router table top. Together with the MFT connectors on the other side you'll just need to adjust the thickness of the router table top to connect it with the MFT or maybe even add the KA-UG V attchement instead. I'll check out prices and post an update later.

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[mikeneron]

Note that I use home-made parallel guides for longer cuts - they work great. I just made them and used them for the first time last week, breaking down 6 sheets of MDF and plywood in the back yard (my MFT is on saw-horses, so very portable). I was surprised at how precise the parallel guides could be when you're just eye-balling the position of the stop. The stops are simply angles of aluminum with a hole drilled for a hex-bolt that rides in the incra "T-Track+" - cost for the pair: $30.

I would definitely like to see some more closeup pictures of how you set these up.

 

[festoller]

It's amazing, the shippment from the UK to Germany took only 2 days! Of corse the weather finally turned summer this weekend and now I have to play down in the shop with the Incra Positioner!

Aynway this is just a preview, but it shows that the 25" was the right choice.

The Festool clamp fits in the positioner track, at least up to the angle, but the track can only be clamped on one side since the MFT holes are a little further appart. I guess I will mount the Positioner on a plate and than clamp it to the MFT. I just can't bring myself to drill holes into the MFT surface.

One thing I can confirm from playing with the Positioner is its 100 % firmness and rigidity! Once you close the red lever it's locked tight and wont move a bit not even at the far end, but can still be micro adjusted by the red wheel.

Once it's attched, I will post more pictures. I hope the fence can be installed on both sides (looks that way) so that I have the Incra logos pointing in the right direction. Without that, the proper operation would probably be compromized! LOL!

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[festoller]

I couldn't resist, there was that one cloud and so I had to go down the basement and start playing with INCRA!

Here's the first set up on a Multiplex plate, but I have to add a few more details to make it easier for square attachment. If you don't need the Positioner to be aligned to the Festool hole grid and only towards the guide rail it's a lot easier! Again I am amazed by the rigidness of this Incra. Unfortunately you can't change the fence from the right to the left side, that's why the micro adjuster is upside down, but that really doesn't matter.

Although the INCRA gold does not match the Festool aluminum, the teeth on the fence are almost 100% match to the Festool green!LOL! Love it!

There is of course one thing I have to admit, it probably is a little too much! But then you can still use it for routing and once I have the router table attched it all makes sense! Compared to the price of a Leigh Dovetail Jig even just for routing, the Incra is much cheaper and more versatile.

If anyone has suggestions for attching the router table please feel free to help me out.

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[Corwin]

That Incra LS Positioner sure looks good on your MFT!

If you don't want to go with the CMS because of the inserts, you could make something similar by ordering from the MFT parts list.  If you were to order the four side profiles from the MFT/3 Kapex, four corner brackets (2 left and 2 right) with all the hardware and either two MFT/3 leg sets or one set and the table connectors you could then make your own top to mount your router.  Hmmm, maybe it would be cheaper to just order another MFT/3 -- I didn't check prices.  You can probably save a bundle making your own table rather than use these Festool parts -- but, the Festool route would fit the 'system' nicely.

Sorry, but I really should have recommended that you purchase the package that includes the Wonder Fence.  I wish that I had done so when I purchased my LS.

I'll be interested to see how your setup progresses.

 

[festoller]

Don't worry I didn't take the Wonder Fence because my first priority was the MFT/ saw set up and I can still upgrade to the Wonder later, if needed, even if that's a little more expensive. I don't think I will use many of the dovetail aplications anyway, although the vacuum port is probably a good addition.

I started counting the parts for the MFT-VL and just the lift and table top of the CMS OF (without fence) are quite expensive. Although that would be the perfect solution. Since I already have a (looks like the Kreg top) router table for the OF 1010 I will probably try to connect it to the MFT first, even if that's without lift. Is there actually a third party lift for the OF1010?

I could however end up ruining my DIY router table top and then get the MFT-VL with the CMS Module anyway at the end of the day. Has anyone shipped the Festop to Europe? I should ask if they do and how much the shipping would be. Having two MFTs connected and one with Festop would be even better.

 

[RONWEN]

What a fantastic setup!  It certainly adds a high level of precision to sawing on the MFT.

 

[festoller]

I've started counting the different router attachment solutions and since it's obviously impossible to get a third party OF 1010 lift, one would have to buy a new table top, router and lift. That brings the budget up a little and the MFT/3-VL extension with the CMS OF module (without Festool fence) seems more reasonable now.

The MFT/3-VL is EUR 368 (US$ 467)

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and if I counted right the whole CMS OF 1010 Module without fence (just the insert and lift) will cost EUR 253 (US$ 320)

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compared to EUR 462 (US$ 586) for the whole system with fence.

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[festoller]

A little development!

I didn't want to clamp the LS (mounted on the Multiplex board) directly on the MFT without any MFT grid support, because:

1. I'd have to allign it every single time and it could still move and ruin the squareness of the cut, especially for larger workpieces and

2. I want to use it on the extra router table, that I would position next to the MFT. Since the non- Incra router table tops are too small to take the LS I can mount the LS on the MFT and allign the router table on any of the sides (I'll post pictures of the router set up later).

3. Extending the lenght of the cut in other words get the LS off of the MFT as an attachment. Here's what I came up with for now. It's really square and rigid!

I really need more Festools just to see what else could be done with the parts!

What you need:

2 bench dogs
1 Kapex Crown Molding Extension (2 are even better)
some screws that fit the Festool rail or Festool clamps)

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[Kodi Crescent]

Resurrecting an old thread:

I am thinking about doing something like this.  However, as someone pointed out in a thread on a similar topic, the cuts are limited to greater than the width of the guiderail.

But, I had an idea for how you could cut smaller pieces.  You could create a sacrificial fence for the LS positioner using MDF.  The bottom of the MDF could have another piece of MDF attached, forming a 90 degree angle.  You then attach the fence to the LS positioner, slide the lower portion of the 90 degree MDF assembly under the guide rail and cut.  The lower portion would then match the width between the edge of the rail and the kerf.

Theoretically, you could then cut smaller pieces using the LS positioner, and the small pieces would be available under the guide rail.  Does it sound reasonable, or is there something wrong with my logic?

 

[Sean KS]

I am building a split top roubo with an Incra TS installed in the split. The top slabs are 26"76"3" with a 8" split. The center support beam (underneath the split) has t-tracks with t-track locks to accept the Incra TS system and keep it parallel to the track. The sides of the top have two sets of parallel t-tracks to support a festool style bracket for the guide rail. I am not using the original fence on the Incra system, I opted for a 80/20inc extrusion that is .5" thick so that the fence can slide under the festool guide rail and cut stock as thin as the fence dimension, and to a very small width with repeated accuracy. The system also utilizes a Incra miter gauge with a custom bracket that attaches in the same fashion as the Festool MFT systems. I had the top slabs CNC bored with 3/4" holes so I can use qwas style dogs for all alignment, and veritas bench accessories. Placing the fence below table surface provides the capability of ripping thin stock, but more importantly, allows you to use the Incra-Festool system for narrow rips. For safety I position the fence to the right side of the track to eliminate the risk of kick back from pinning both sides of the cut.

 

[RONWEN]

I am building a split top roubo with an Incra TS installed in the split. The top slabs are 26"76"3" with a 8" split. The center support beam (underneath the split) has t-tracks with t-track locks to accept the Incra TS system and keep it parallel to the track. The sides of the top have two sets of parallel t-tracks to support a festool style bracket for the guide rail. I am not using the original fence on the Incra system, I opted for a 80/20inc extrusion that is .5" thick so that the fence can slide under the festool guide rail and cut stock as thin as the fence dimension, and to a very small width with repeated accuracy. The system also utilizes a Incra miter gauge with a custom bracket that attaches in the same fashion as the Festool MFT systems. I had the top slabs CNC bored with 3/4" holes so I can use qwas style dogs for all alignment, and veritas bench accessories. Placing the fence below table surface provides the capability of ripping thin stock, but more importantly, allows you to use the Incra-Festool system for narrow rips. For safety I position the fence to the right side of the track to eliminate the risk of kick back from pinning both sides of the cut.

Welcome to the forum!
Your project sounds great, please post some pictures when available.

 

[plouf]

Hi Festoller,

Coming back again to your very interesting post. With a question: is the narrow block of wood (that sit under the carriage clamp) just there to ease the alignment the LS positionner or is it for another purpose that I can't figure out?

Thanks for your help!

regards,

- plouf -

 

[Iwood75]

Love your set-up! However, if you do add the Wonder Fence, don't count on its vacuum port to do its job.
I have the Incra router table/Positioner/Wonder Fence package and the DC is my only complaint. The dust and chips just don't want to travel all the way to the end of the fence.  Incra strongly recommends an under-table solution and even has a plan for one on their website. I'll be building one as soon as I can get to it.  Joel

 

[Corwin]

Hi Festoller,

Coming back again to your very interesting post. With a question: is the narrow block of wood (that sit under the carriage clamp) just there to ease the alignment the LS positionner or is it for another purpose that I can't figure out?

I'm sure that the narrow block is mounted on the larger wood base [90 degrees to the front edge] to help align the LS with the wood base, which in turn butts up against some dogs aligning the whole unit with the MFT's grid of 20mm holes.  

It has been six years or so since I have mounted my LS on my MFT, but I used to simply align the LS with the table Guide Rail by simply butting the LS''s fence up against the backside of the Guide Rail and then clamp the base in place.  Quick and easy enough, but Festoller's method looks great too.

 

[Alan m]

Love your set-up! However, if you do add the Wonder Fence, don't count on its vacuum port to do its job.
I have the Incra router table/Positioner/Wonder Fence package and the DC is my only complaint. The dust and chips just don't want to travel all the way to the end of the fence.  Incra strongly recommends an under-table solution and even has a plan for one on their website. I'll be building one as soon as I can get to it.  Joel

i have the incra ls and wonder fence. i have my ct22 extracting the dust with the 50mm hose from the boom arm
the dust did build up in the extrusion and in the non extracted extrusion.
i removed the black end cap from the non extracted extrusion to let the air be drawn through there
the dust colection in improved an lot
i havnt  as much suction out away from the joining but anything that goes into the joining is extracted  perfectly. the fence is rarely away from the bit anyway

 

[festoller]

Hi Festoller,

Coming back again to your very interesting post. With a question: is the narrow block of wood (that sit under the carriage clamp) just there to ease the alignment the LS positionner or is it for another purpose that I can't figure out?

Thanks for your help!

regards,

- plouf -

Hi plouf,

yes it's just for simple alignment, no other purpose!

 

[Iwood75]

Hi Alan,

Would you please detail your Wonder Fence DC set-up a little further? I'm not understanding what you mean by "non extracted extrusion." I'd like to try your idea before building Incra's under-table DC. Photos would be greatly appreciated. 

Thanks!  Joel

 

[Sean KS]

Joel

As I understand Allan's jargon, he's referring to the extrusion closest to the operator as being non-extracted. The DC connection is only on the rear extrusion, the fence itself is split to allow for larger router bits. There's a small plastic piece that floats between the two extrusions to help with closing the holes on the rear of the fence. Could be wrong but that's how I read it.

 

[Alan m]

sean is mostly correct.
there are two extrusions. the infeed side adn the out feed side of the bit. the out feed side has the dc port. the infeed side is blocked on the end nearest to the operater. i removed the square end cap. you can now look down through the two axtrusions and ut the dc port.

i will get a pic for you