MFT3: Festool Seeking Member Questions

This is probably a documentation issue, and a lack of diligence on my part, and I don't really know much about the MFT at all, but the answers *I* would need before purchasing one is not *what* it can do, it is how much effort is required to do it; specifically, a task oriented set of instructions/video that is complete.

Right now I have a bunch of veneered panels in my shop. They are in 3 thicknesses. All need to have one straight edge put on them (did that last night with a 1400/2 and 55). Now they all need to be cut to the same width. Clearly I could do that by measuring and cutting 1, then using it to mark the remainder and using the guide to lay up to the pencil line, then cutting, but mistakes are likely and small variances are likely (and will cost more effort down the road). A table saw can do this extremely effectively just setting the fence once, all except for the material handling, which is tough alone and in my small shop. For a table saw, the procedure is:

- Attach rip fence
- Pulling the fence to the rail, adjust it so the indicator is at the width you desire.
- Lock the fence and recheck the width.
- raise blade to maximum thickness + gullet.

This will cut panels all day long, so long as you can deal with them. I'd love to do this kind of thing with the MFT; it is a damn common task. I'm always seeing some whack angle cut, but how about repetitive regular  tasks? What is the maximum length panel which can be done this way?

My second task will be to cut one end square to the sides. My tablesaw, with a crosscut sled, will do a very nice job but longer panels can create a significant material handling problem, especially long heavy panels. How do I do repetitive square cross cuts on the MFT, especially with a stop so they are all "automatically" the same length for the final cut-to-length.

I think it is this kind of task oriented stuff I would like to see; it is easy to see a video where a guy zooms through a panel, but without knowing the set-up details I wouldn't invest the money and time (both always at a premium) in the system; I have bought too many things which were too finicky or too painful to set-up to be worth the time or effort.

Short version: What I want is detailed instructions (and possibly video) for common tasks and honest assessments of the pro's and con's of the set-up. Also for set-up and tear down of the table itself (including things like squaring the guide and how often it needs to be done).

I'd bet the MFT does what I want it to, but ...
 
Thanks Shane,

No need to measure. I can picture it now. I was thinking of using a longer guide rail and just moving the guide rail clamps to the ends of the "combined" tables. This would just be for repeated cuts obviously. Otherwise, it'll be easier to just use the guide rail normally as you would for any other marked cut.

Thanks again,

Mike
 
pmkierst - you should check out this thread:http://festoolownersgroup.com/index.php?topic=2757.0 You'll find that Qwas (Steve) has come up with a very clever way of ensuring parallel cuts on panels such as yours. With some initial fiddling, you should be able to get both parallel and perpendicular cuts on the MFT with very little trouble (and high accuracy). The trick is to rely on the very accurate spacing of the holes, rather than hope that the guide rail and side profiles are perpendicular. I'd guess that with about the same initial fussing as a table saw, you could accomplish your cuts.

On the other hand, the table saw is clearly the better solution for many of these types of cut - especially if you're in production mode, and have to pump things out fast and accurate. For my own (amateur) work, speed is not of the essence. I think the great advantage of the MFT for commercial work is that - unlike a table saw - you can take it to a job site. Not to mention dust collection.

And to address another of your points, I too think that a set of videos or well-illustrated manuals would be a great boon for Festool products. I assume you've looked at Jerry Work and John Lucas' sites? They're amazing resources.
 
Hi,

Please forgive me if this was discussed but I could not find an answer by searching.

Does we know how much rigidity the cross members will provide the MFT3?

We would need to purchase two sets (front & back) correct?

Thanks.

Stephen
 
I'd like to see package deals of the MFT3 with almost any other major tool. I have a TS55, Rotex 125 and a CS22 and would LOVE to get the table. If I could buy it in a package with the Domino I'd buy the Domino right away instead of waiting and waiting and...
 
I would like to see other tools packaged with the MFT, also.  Perhaps routers, MFS400/700?  I already have a TS75 and don't think I need another saw right now. 

I think some kind of loyalty program to give people building a stable of Festools some kind a a break would be a great idea.  If not a discount on additional tools, perhaps a coupon for related accessories would be in order.  i.e.: buy a drill and get 15% off all centrotec accessories purchased with it.

Maybe a "build your own package" deal would work best.
 
It looks like in the video  the same mitre fence system that is used in my CS70 tablesaw as well as parts from the basis system.
 
The MFT/3 was among the new Festool products demonstrated to the FOG members at the Las Vegas training center.  The top of the MFT/3 is provded with metal inserts and thus remains registered exactly relative to the side rails, and should remain so even when flipped.  The V-groove in the top of each of the side rails is a key new feature.  Together with the new mounting method for the top, it enables quickly mounting the new fence and mitre gauge, dismounting and remounting without need of recalibration of the fence/mitre gauge.  The new fence is more robust than the previous MFT fence.  It can be mounted in either of two positions: low (similar to the old MFT fence) and high for thicker materials.  Plus, there is a short section of it corresponding to the width of a Guide Rail that is even lower in height to facilitate cutting of thinner stock against the fence and under the Guide Rail without having to place a shim under the stock.  The amount of fence extending to either side of the mitre head can be quickly adjusted without any tools.  You simply release a cam lever and move the fence to where you want it, and relock the cam.  The mechanism is designed so it cannot be over tightened and damage the fence, yet it locks positively.  The mitre gauge is noticeably larger and more robust than that of the earlier MFT 1080 and 800, similar to and perhaps the same as the LA 650 gauge.  It is now a full 180 degrees, not only 90 degrees as in the prior MFT.  The legs of the new MFT are designed to place the top higher than the old MFT, and when extended, do not project outside of the footprint of the frame around the top.  This means that multiple MFT/3s can be joined end-to-end or side-to-side without any interference between pairs of legs on adjacent tables.  On the old MFT, one of the leg pairs had to be folded up to avoid interference.  The cross braces were not available to us to see or use.  They will not fit the old MFTs.  As you have read by now, the new MFT is lighter than the old MFT 1080, yet due to the new rail mounting system for the fence/mitre gauge, there is more usable table top space for most rail/fence guided cutting operations.  The new V-groove rails will enable use of the new MFT/3 with other accessories not yet available in USA.  According to Festool representatives, this V-groove is very common in Europe and many accessories are available to fit to it.  It should make mounting a router table attachment much faster and with accurate registry relative to the MFT/3 top.  Mounting of a horizontal router table accessory for making male sliding dovetails should be facilitated.

Dave R.
 
Dave and everyone else with a lot to say, all your posts are great!

One suggestion: Please break up your ideas in paragraphs. And for others, please do not double space every single line. Use single space and break up the paragraphs with double spacing. My eyes are shot and I am having an extremely difficult time reading the longer posts on the monitor  when they are one big paragraph or when every single line is double spaced.

This is especially bad on the wide screen monitors as Mathew has the website set as self adjusting instead of centered. This stretches out the sentences making them longer instead of just centering a normal width page within the screen as you stretch out the view manually. Even though I look at two pages at once on my monitor, keeping the width to a normal single page layout, the longer posts are hard to follow line to line.

I am only saying this for ease  of readability on a computer monitor. I am not an English major and this is not about grammar, etc.

Of course the content is not an issue.

Nickao
 
Nice review Dave, makes me think again about possibly buying an MFT/3.

Nick is right about long continuous posts being hard to read. Some of that is also the font selection. Matthew should be using a serif font which makes it easier to follow long lines of text.
 
I keep hearing mention of these accessories which work in the V-grove. With the video Shane posted, we've heard mention of table saw and router table, now Dave's talking some more about a router table and a horizontal router mount.

Since right now I have neither a router table nor a (good) table saw, I hope these rumors grow quickly, first getting some anonymously-posted camera phone video, then a link to a site in German, then some hints from people with the green names...

I'd hate to buy a router table a year before an MFT router table appeared...

(and by the way, serif fonts tend to work poorly on the web)
 
There have been questions about the cross members for the MFT/3 which offer additional support and torsional strength.  Here are some photos of the braces on an MFT/3. 

I think I read in another thread that someone said these would not work with the Generation 2 MFT.  That is not correct.  You can install these on an MFT 800/1080 but you will need to loosen the corner brackets of the table to gain access to the end of the t-profile in the bottom of the rail.  There is a nut which must slide into that groove which is used to attach the bracket under the table.

Here are some photos which show the cross members.  I'd be happy to post photos of it installed in an MFT/1080 if anyone wants to see that as well.
 
Shane,

Perhaps this is a dumb question, but wouldn't you put them on opposite sides of the table?

Thanks,

Dan.
 
Dan Clark said:
Perhaps this is a dumb question, but wouldn't you put them on opposite sides of the table?

These are installed on the back side of the table.  I didn't install them personally but I would probably have placed them in the back too.  Just seems like they would not be in the way as much there.  I looked at some of the stock photography from Germany.  In most photos they have both in the rear of the table.  In photo it looks like they have one in the front and one in the rear.  I welcome your thoughts and comments if you believe they should be positioned otherwise.

Something I failed to mention... we took some video which demostrates the difference with and without.  Hopefully I can get that posted to YouTube later.
 
Shane Holland said:
There have been questions about the cross members for the MFT/3 which offer additional support and torsional strength.  Here are some photos of the braces on an MFT/3. 

I think I read in another thread that someone said these would not work with the Generation 2 MFT.  That is not correct.  You can install these on an MFT 800/1080 but you will need to loosen the corner brackets of the table to gain access to the end of the t-profile in the bottom of the rail.  There is a nut which must slide into that groove which is used to attach the bracket under the table.

Here are some photos which show the cross members.  I'd be happy to post photos of it installed in an MFT/1080 if anyone wants to see that as well.

Yes please post a picture of the 1080 with the supports. I thought there was a way to do it and purchased them, but so many people kept saying it could not be done I canceled my order.

Nickao
 
Shane,

I would like to see how those leg braces might work with an MFT 1080 or MFT 800.  I have both models.

To  Nickao et al.,

Sorry for running all my comments together.  I was trying to save space and not sound like an advertisement.  As I progressed with writing my comments on the MFT/3, I realized more and more that what I was writing was sounding more and more like a big promo.  That was not and is not my intention.  I was merely trying to describe differences between the MFT/3 and the recently discontinued MFT 1080 and MFT 800.

One of the things I forgot to mention is that the (?new?) MFT for the Kapex will be have a top corresponding in size to the old MFT 800.  The MFT for the Kapex will be lower in height than the new MFT/3.  The difference in height will be exactly that needed to match the height of the new MFT/3 top to the workpiece table of the Kapex when set on its table.

The Kapex comes with short cylindrical shaped rubber foot pads that are sized and located so they will drop into four holes of any MFT top  (new or old type).  And there are cast in recesses in the base of the Kapex to facilitate clamping the Kapex to an MFT top using any of Festool's F-style clamps inserted from beneath the table top.

The elevation of the work table of the Kapex above the bases of the Kapex corresponds to the height of a Systainer 1.  So, if you have multiple old MFTs like I do, you can simply line them up and place a Systainer 1 on either side of the Kapex to support long workpieces.  Of course, you can set the Kapex on the floor or any other work table and use a pair of Systainer 1s to support long workpieces.

I apologize for apparently having created a wrong impression regarding accessories may soon be available in USA to fit the V-groove at the top of the MFT/3 side rails.  My understanding is that such accessories are available in Europe and not limited to items sourced from Festool, but no information was provided to us at "Festool Fantasy Camp" as to exactly what these items were, or if any items made by Festool would become available in USA.  My point in stating this was to encourage those who are interested in the new MFT/3 to search around the internet for possibilities (I have not to date.), and to cause some of the many creative minds of FOG members to begin designing and fabricating their own accessories that can be quickly attached and detached.   My guess is that at minimum, Festool components of their V-groove mounting system can be purchased separately through FestoolUSA's parts department and these can be used with shop made accessories.  If the V-groove is truly a European standard, then there are likely other sources of useful mounting and clampiing components for such shop made accessories if entire accessories such as router tables are not available.

Dave R.
 
Here you go, guys.  Cross members attached to a MFT 1080.

The first image shows the screws that will need to be loosen in order to slide the profile apart.  You may also need to remove the torx screw which secures the top.
 
Thanks, Shane, for that clarification and correction - that the leg braces will work with older generation MFTs.  That question was specifically asked during "Festool Fantasy Camp" and answered in the negative.

Please post photos of these braces installed on an older generation MFT.  

Regarding their location for maximum effectiveness against racking and maximum utility, I would position both of them on the backside of the MFT, so they form a pair of mirror image triangles when installed in "brace position."  That position frees up access to the underside of the MFT from the front side where the workman will presumably be standing most of the time, and facilitates availability of the space under the MFT for storage of a CT vacuum or stacks of Systainers.

What is the cost of a pair of these braces and any associated hardware that is needed to fit them to an MFT 1080?

I hope that FestoolUSA will stock "leg brace kits" for the older generation MFTs.  I could certainly use at least one of them.

Dave R.
 
Dave Ronyak said:
What is the cost of a pair of these braces and any associated hardware that is needed to fit them to an MFT 1080?

Dave,

You can use the same cross members for the MFT/3 on the MFT 1080.  The part number is 495 502, page 39 in the 08/09 catalog, $72.50 for a pair.  There is no special hardware or modifications necessary to install these on the older MFT.  The only "special" requirement is that the corners of the table need to be loosen to gain access to the profile to slide in the nut used for securing the bracket.

We did not try these on the 800 so I can't say for sure that they will work on it.
 
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