miter saw choices

[jscotlandr]

I need hands on time with the Kapex.  I almost never get Buyer's Remorse because I research my purchases AMAP. That $600 difference is starting to come back into the picture.

I just realized I am sounding like my ex-wife:  Black shoes or the brown boots? for 30 minutes.

 

[rcher]

Dust collection is an issue for me, and the Kapex wins that hands down.

I am glad that you like your Kapex, but I don't think this an accurate statement.  As I stated above, I don't own the Kapex but have used one.  The Milwaukee is just as good. 

Well, my Kapex, like all Festool tools,  has an attachment for my CT22 dust vac and it sucks up most of the cut material.  The Milwaukee just has this biga-- bag hanging off the bag attached to a wide chute. The "integral dust channel" doesn't mean much if you have to mess with emptying the bag or are dumping into a container.  So, I stand by my statement.

 

[mwhafner]

Well, my Kapex, like all Festool tools,  has an attachment for my CT22 dust vac and it sucks up most of the cut material.  The Milwaukee just has this biga-- bag hanging off the bag attached to a wide chute. The "integral dust channel" doesn't mean much if you have to mess with emptying the bag or are dumping into a container.  So, I stand by my statement.

It took me about 15 minutes to create an adapter to hook the Milwaukee to my CT22.  The bag was never even installed on the saw.  Yes, the Kapex already has the port there.  No, it is not ideal to have to create your own adapter.  The end result is the same.  The Milwaukee is capable, when hooked to the same vac, of collecting approximately the same amount of dust/waste.  Heck, Milwaukee claims to collect 75% of the dust with just the bag.

 

[nickao]

"Well, my Kapex, like all Festool tools,  has an attachment for my CT22 dust vac and it sucks up most of the cut material.  The Milwaukee just has this biga-- bag hanging off the bag attached to a wide chute. The "integral dust channel" doesn't mean much if you have to mess with emptying the bag or are dumping into a container.  So, I stand by my statement".

That is ridiculous you are comparing 800.00(499.99 for the Milwaukee on sale)more for an adapter?

It took me about 15 minutes also to make an adapter for my Milwaukee and it gets as much dust as the Kapex's I had.

The miter table on the Milwaukee is far superior than the Kapex and the digital gauge is a dream, the more I use it the more I love it. Yesterday I spent 4 hours at the Milwaukee and was smiling the entire time all while not creating dust storm. Milwaukee is coming out with an adapter and I am sure it will not be 800.00 maybe 20.00,. And as for power I rate the Milwaukee  more powerful.

If you want a saw that is more quiet and lighter with a nice laser get the Kapex. If you want to save 800.00 and have the dust collection of the Kapex, no miter table problems, do not care about a laser and do not mind a bigger heavier saw get the Milwaukee. To me it was a no brainer, a miter box cross cuts and thats it. Its not like a table saw where so many different operations can be done.

Oh and the bevel adjustment on the Milwaukee, once I got used to it, is fantastic too.

Sure the Festool Kapex is more elegant and probably a better saw over all, but is it worth 700 or 800.00 more than the Milwaukee? Not in anyone's wildest dreams.

 

[rcher]

It took me about 15 minutes to create an adapter to hook the Milwaukee to my CT22.  The bag was never even installed on the saw.  Yes, the Kapex already has the port there.  No, it is not ideal to have to create your own adapter.  The end result is the same.  The Milwaukee is capable, when hooked to the same vac, of collecting approximately the same amount of dust/waste.  Heck, Milwaukee claims to collect 75% of the dust with just the bag.

The Milwaukee claims 75%, the Kapex is 91%.  Doesn't require any silly modifications.  Comes that way out of the box.  I still stand by my statement.

 

[rcher]

[quoute]
That is ridiculous you are comparing 800.00(499.99 for the Milwaukee on sale)more for an adapter?

It took me about 15 minutes also to make an adapter for my Milwaukee and it gets as much dust as the Kapex's I had.

The miter table on the Milwaukee is far superior than the Kapex and the digital gauge is a dream, the more I use it the more I love it. Yesterday I spent 4 hours at the Milwaukee and was smiling the entire time all while not creating dust storm. Milwaukee is coming out with an adapter and I am sure it will not be 800.00 maybe 20.00,. And as for power I rate the Milwaukee  more powerful.

If you want a saw that is more quiet and lighter with a nice laser get the Kapex. If you want to save 800.00 and have the dust collection of the Kapex, no miter table problems, do not care about a laser and do not mind a bigger heavier saw get the Milwaukee. To me it was a no brainer, a miter box cross cuts and thats it. Its not like a table saw where so many different operations can be done.

Oh and the bevel adjustment on the Milwaukee, once I got used to it, is fantastic too.

Sure the Festool Kapex is more elegant and probably a better saw over all, but is it worth 700 or 800.00 more than the Milwaukee? Not in anyone's wildest dreams.
[/quote]

The comparison wasn't on price, it was dust collection.  I still stand by my statement that the dust collection of the Kapex is superior, which is verified by the manufacturer's own statements (Milwaukee says 75%, Kapex is 91%).

But, since you bring up other features, I find the dual lasers superior to a digital guage anyday for the work I do.  The Kapex's settings are quite accurate and the lasers really speed up my work.  The tables are, IMHO, a wash.

 

[mwhafner]

The Milwaukee claims 75%, the Kapex is 91%.  Doesn't require any silly modifications.  Comes that way out of the box.  I still stand by my statement.

I am glad that you like your Kapex.  I have never made a negative post towards it.  In my brief experience with it, it is a fine saw with some great features.

The Milwaukee claim of 75% is made with just the bag, no vacuum assistance.  It only stands to reason that that the collection would increase significantly when it is fitted with a vac, especially one as powerful as a CT22.  Do I wish that it was already outfitted with a port, or came with an adapter? Certainly.  But it was an easy retrofit.

I have used the Kapex some, and have a pretty good idea of the collection capabilities.  I am simply stating that when hooked to a vac, they both catch about the same amount of debris.

As woodworkers, "silly modifications" is a part of what we do.  Heck the forum has a discussion group setup for "Festool Jigs, Inventions, Tool Enhancements", dedicated to those "silly modifications".

 

[nickao]

The comparison wasn't on price, it was dust collection.  I still stand by my statement that the dust collection of the Kapex is superior, which is verified by the manufacturer's own statements (Milwaukee says 75%, Kapex is 91%).

I give a crap what the manufacturer says I had both saws, have you. The dust collection is the same in use period.

Realize the Milwaukee number is given using the bag and NO dust extraction!

The Kapex number is given using Dust extraction.

Don't you think adding a dust extractor to the milwuakee will improve the collection?  It does. I never tried the Kapex without and dust extractor when I had it but I bet it was no more than the 71% Milwaukee claims.

If you believe every manufacture spec you need a dose of reality anyway, but using their numbers the dust extraction is till equivalent. You need compare apple to apples.

Silly modification? Heck that is better than sending back the saw three times I wish there were a simple mod to fix that Kapex table at the time.

Mwhafner I am totally with you on this one.

 

[honeydoman]

they are both good saws and we have all heard good and bad about both.

to me weight is a big factor.  humping a 65# saw sucks, even though I have a helper to do this if needed it still sucks.  2nd milwaukee would take up a chunk of space in my van where the festool doesnot.

if you keep and use a chop saw for 4 years and kapex is 800$ more that is only 200 bucks a year....  and if I use the saw 100 times a year on a job, (i have a 10 chop cheepo from dewfault that I carry all the time for small jobs etc.)  that is only 2 bucks a use.  to me 2 bucks is well worth the extra money and not having to hump a huge saw and the extra weight etc.

2nd the bevel adjustment is much better on the kapex than the milwaukee. 

3rd.  money has never been an issue for me to buy a tool... it is what the tool does....

how many guys still use a board or someother straight edge, or trying to rip down a sheet of ply on a table saw because they do not want to spend the 500-700 bucks or so for the ts 55 or 75 and the rails.....

how much more time does it take to line up  a board and remember that you have to back off 3" or was it 2 7/8" every cut you make and then clamp the board.  where with the festool you lay down the rail make the cut ... done deal.

over 1 year I guarantee you that in time saved you have more than paid for the system.

I have 9 rails!  good greef.

so in closing..... buy the saw you want and will like best that suits your needs and we will come and visit you at the hospital when you hurt your back or hurnia from carring a huge saw.,....... just kidding..... lol

someday I will buy another kapex which might be this friday.......... #6... i do miss it for the few times I owned it.

got a huge trim job again.... i am thinking.........stay tuned.!

 

[Bro]

I own the Milwaukee and would vote for it hands down.  I have spent some time on the Kapex and don't think it is as good.  Festool missed the bus with this saw.  They put all of the $ on the bevel adjustment and very little on the miter table.  In my opinion the miter table is a more important feature of any miter saw.  You will use this feature much more over time than the bevel adjustment.  The miter table on the Kapex is pretty much junk. The handle on the milwaukee is also much better.  The one big draw back is the weight.  But I disagree with an earlier poster that is seems heavier than it is.  I think because the saw is not deep when it is set at 60* and has rubber handles it makes it easeir to carry than my Makita 1013.

Kreg talks about how useful the ts55 with guide rails is and how much time and money it saves.  He is dead on with that statement.  I own one and love it; one of the best tools I ever purchased.  This is not true with Kapex, it doesn't give the same return.  Infact the Milwaukee trumps the Kapex all day long.

I wrote a review on the Milwaukee for JLC in the December 2008 issue.  It will give you some insight about the tool.

 

[glass1]

I have owned both. I returned the kapex and kept the mil. I own many festools. I am a second generation carpenter in the hamptons and only do high end work. BUY THE MIL. Forget about the kapex until they come out with version 2. If you buy the mil know for 650 to 700 it comes with a free router. Use the 600 you saved to buy the 1400 router plus stuff.  just my imo   

 

[nickao]

I like my Milwaukee but still it is not perfect. It is pretty loud although the motor is strong as heck and seems to get more power as the wood gets harder, I guess its the electronics that does it. I wish Milwaukee would come up woth a shop version so a larger induction motor could be used, much more quite, A really small induction motor to save weight I do not think would be as strong as the new motor on this thing.

If it is not secured down it does seem to tip backward, still not a problem all saws should be attached down somehow anyway.

I love the Bevel on this Milwaukee so though the kapex is better this Milwaukee has one of the best Bevels I have used. And like the other poster said the bevel is not used as much, actually I only use a bevel on a miter as a last resort.

The miter table is a little small like the kapex, I still prefer my super large table of the Ridgid, that would stop the backward tipping too. Other than that the miter table is so fantastic I love adjusting it! I will never give up the digital miter now that I have used it.

The weight is no big deal, again the previous poster is right on the money it is so simple to carry I think it counteracts the additional weight. And its additional weight cuts down on vibration so I do not hold that against the tool at all.

I am still using the stock blade so unlike others I think for an included blade it is great!

The dust collection rocks, but you have to make a adapter. I do not think Milwaukee has one yet, but still most of us are fabricating all kinds of dust collection stuff so it is not that big a deal.

I hate the vertical handle of the Kapex, I guess that is personal preference, but the Horizontal handle on the Milwaukee seems a lot easier with its power switch to turn on and handle to me. 

The built in light of the Milwaukee is nice, but could be brighter with less shadow.

Reduce the sound level, add a sweet shadow kerf light mark like the DeWalt has, which I like better than the Kapex laser, give it a bigger table and the Milwaukee would be near perfect.

For the price of 499.99 which you can get if you look around the value is so high it is unbelievable. BUT over all the Kapex is an engineering marvel and probably a better saw overall if it is working.

 

[johnsonri]

I've had the Kapex for about three months now and its great to use!! I couldn't ask for better dust collection. I tried many of the other saws listed here before going with the Kapex.

The Milwaukee is an absolutely great saw with an equally great price. But for me, the Festool slightly edges it out in almost every category, except for price.

Now that I am used to working with the Kapex, I can't imagine myself with another saw in the foreseeable future. I will re-evaluate things if/when Kapex2 is available.

 

[nickao]

Rey I have had both and I disagree. The only category the Festool actually is a clear winner is sound level and obviously the Milwaukee has no laser.

The Milwaukee is better at putting dust in the bag if by chance you have no dust collection. With a dust collector it is about the same at collecting the dust.

The Milwaukee miter adjustment is much better than the miter adjustment on the kapex, that's not even close. SO I do not see how you feel every category the Festool is better, that just is not right.

I even like the bevel adjustment on the Milwaukee, but I guess the kapex would be the clear winner in that category. And of course the Kapex is lighter that is a fact, but I still feel the Milwaukee is easier than most miter saws to carry becasue of the way it is designed.

Everything else is so close I see no difference, except price of course.

It is very difficult to compare these saws because the price weighs so heavily in my mind its hard to put that aside. Of course the Milwaukee is a better value and as I have said many times the Kapex is probably better overall, but not in every category and to some  the Milwaukee is preferable, even disregarding price. But I always have that price of the kapex in my head so I may be a little biased because of that. The same way someone who paid 1300.00 is going to be biased because of the same. If my kapex's worked I may also be able to give a better opinion on a comparison.

If I did not know the price on both saws and than tested them I wonder how I would see them then. I know people say they can set that aside in their opinions, I think subconsciously you really can't.

 

[mastercabman]

If I did not know the price on both saws and than tested them I wonder how I would see them then. I know people say they can set that aside in their opinions, I think subconsciously you really can't.

Totally agree!!!

 

[Bro]

Yes you can argue the pluses and minuses of both tools.  Hey the Kapex's bevel adjustment is truly revolutionary.  But the handle and safety trigger are just as unrevolutionary.  The miter table is junk and has been the center of a major recall.  I don't like the fact you must use a vacuum; that is a plus for the Milwaukee.  One big difference no one has mentioned; capicity!! the Milwaukee has so much more and this is a huge advantage.  ;D

 

[bb]

Hi folks,

I also own the Milwaukee. It is big, a bit heavy and accurate. Mine is used in the shop for furniture building thus weight is not much of a consideration. The saw cost $499 with a 5 year warranty. If service work is necessary the saw can be taken locally (no need for shipping, etc).  I own many festools but do not feel the kapex can be worth an additional $800 --- at least for me.

 

[mwhafner]

One big difference no one has mentioned; capicity!! the Milwaukee has so much more and this is a huge advantage

Bro,

I agree.  I have really enjoyed the additional capacity of the Milwaukee, but I do have to give the Kapex some Kudos here.  The Milwaukee is greater, but the Kapex's capacity is absolutely amazing for its size.  

 

[nickao]

I never compared capacity as the Milwaukee is a 12" and the Kapex is a 10" and it is obvious, but yes the big advantage is to the Milwaukee. If you think about it a 12" kapex would weigh as much as the Milwaukee, so I still say the Milwaukee is NOT heavy. Try picking up my 12" Ridgid than tell me the Milwaukee is heavy.

 

[mwhafner]

Try picking up my 12" Ridgid than tell me the Milwaukee is heavy.

I am sure you are right.  My other SCMS was a Makita 1013, so I don't have a good point of reference.

The lift handle placement on the Milwaukee  is great.  You have lift points on the back, top and both sides.  That helps a lot when maneuvering in odd situations, like climbing narrow stairs.