New Dust Extractor Ends

[antss]

"Coke was smart enough to admit their failure and reverse course...Will festool do the same and bring back the old style fittings? I have my doubts."

Yes, but it did take a while. Public pressure certainly played a role.

Doubtful, German companies are generally too arrogant to publicly admit errors.

 

[Tyler Ernsberger]

[member=57769]TylerC[/member] any news on getting the older hose ends.  I really dislike the newer style. 

 

[Bob D.]

"Supposedly there is only one direction it will fit into the systainer without removal."

I recently received my TSC55 and noticed that you can't leave the hose adapter rotated
up toward the lid. If you rotate it to the side or down then you can close the lid without
interference. Or you can remove it which is what I did because most times I will be using
my saw with the dust bag and not connected to my CT36. I have not even tried connecting
to the CT yet so can't comment on how that works. There was an adapter in the box with
the saw which I assume is to connnect to the older (but in my opinion better) style hoses.

 

[jetset95]

Interesting thread - I just purchased a TS 55 and it came with the new fitting, the problem (if you can call it that) is that the TS 55 is the only Festool item I own. My vac is a generic shop vac (from Wickes if you're in the UK) and I can push the new hose adapter onto the hard plastic nozzle and attach it to my TS 55. I wasn't expecting perfect dust control using this Frankenstein hybrid but it's a lot better than when I was jamming the vac tubing into the dust port of my Bosch circular saw, so overall I'm happy with this arrangement.

What I'm concerned about is how this impacts my plans to build up my small garage shop moving forwards. Here in the UK my one car garage is only about 120 square feet so I plan on building a solid workbench and mainly use hand tools where I can. The TS 55 is to manage larger sheet goods, and based on the performance with my cheap vac I was totally buying into the idea of more Festool tools as a means for controlling dust in my tiny space. I would only have room for one vac system, and so a CT Midi or 26 which could connect to the track saw, maybe a sander, a domino and a router seemed like a great way of limiting damaging dust while my broom could sweep up the shavings.

If I've got to switch on the vac every time I swap the hose from one tool to another, it's probably not not the end of the world if while connected, the vac and hose do their job, but if a simple rubber push on adapter works better, then even if Festool isn't Coke and I never acquire a Festool push on adapter, it's probably not too hard to imagine finding a third party one that works just as well...?

Food for thought guys, thanks for the great forum and discussions. Very helpful as I try and plan this investment.

 

[Poindexter]

Why was it changed? 

 

[Ross 71]

.......and based on the performance with my cheap vac I was totally buying into the idea of more Festool tools as a means for controlling dust in my tiny space. I would only have room for one vac system, and so a CT Midi or 26 which could connect to the track saw, maybe a sander, a domino and a router seemed like a great way of limiting damaging dust while my broom could sweep up the shavings.

If I've got to switch on the vac every time I swap the hose from one tool to another, it's probably not not the end of the world if while connected, the vac and hose do their job, but if a simple rubber push on adapter works better, then even if Festool isn't Coke and I never acquire a Festool push on adapter, it's probably not too hard to imagine finding a third party one that works just as well...?

Food for thought guys, thanks for the great forum and discussions. Very helpful as I try and plan this investment.

If you have to switch on the dust vac every time, you're going to LOVE your CT Midi when you get it. After a year and half I still can't get over the thrill of the vacuum turning on and off when I start the saw. makes me chuckle every time.

Ross

 

[Cheese]

Why was it changed? 

There were some issues with the dust hose catching on the TS rail and being pulled off, also some users complained about the dust hose falling off of the routers and a few sanders.

So, the hose fitting was then re-engineered to be a twist-lock style fitting. That solution however, brought forth its own bag of gremlins.  [doh]

 

[TylerC]

[member=57769]TylerC[/member] any news on getting the older hose ends.  I really dislike the newer style.

There aren't any plans at this point to return to the old hose ends, which provided a much less secure connection than the newer ones do.

 

[antss]

Any plans to fix the guide rail deflector that has been a problem since the upgrade to the twin spine variant ?

 

[jt073]

[member=57769]TylerC[/member] any news on getting the older hose ends.  I really dislike the newer style.

There aren't any plans at this point to return to the old hose ends, which provided a much less secure connection than the newer ones do.

Thanks [member=57769]TylerC[/member] for engaging with us on this issue.

The "more secure" connection offered by the new design is a trivial benefit compared to the price of:

- massively increased effort to attach and remove the new connector; and
- serious dust spillage (leading to extra clean up effort, untidiness and potential hazard); and
- loss of efficiency due to air loss when using the cleaning kits (thanks [member=40343]T. Ernsberger[/member])

The new connector design also offers no benefit on the D36 hose as I understand that no D36 "Cleantec" is offered. In my case, I prefer to use the D36 with the bigger tools e.g. TS75, BS105 and OF2200 that are the most likely to lose the connector in use due to the design of the tool spigot).

Reference [member=44099]Cheese[/member] comments: I did not read much comment about the old style connectors coming adrift, but there certainly has been a flood of complaints about the new style (even excluding my own!).  I would hope that these comments carry as much weight as the others. (I am not sure I can recall any comments praising the new design.

Let us just examine the supposed benefits of a "more secure" connection.  When you are operating a powerful tool and the hose snags, maybe on the end of the rail or on the workbench, what would you prefer to happen:

- the hose lets go,leaving you to decide whether to continue the cut or stop and reattach; or
- the hose stays tight (and snagged) causing the tool to become unbalanced or get pulled off line?

I remain of the view that Festool have boobed here and should be big enough to take on board the feedback from the real world. Speaking for myself, I experience irritation every time I have to struggle with this flawed design, either by having to turn the vac on manually to suck up the spillage or by the unnecessary physical effort involved in fitting and removing the hose - I would suggest that the company should reflect on the negative feelings of goodwill that this irritation produces. It is not an overstatement that it has caused me to reexamine my whole view of the Festool brand (and I am pretty well invested in it!).

Cheers

 

[antss]

[member=57769]TylerC[/member] - what do the engineers have to say about the "much less secure" connection at the vacuum itself ? [scratch chin]

The system is only as good as it's weakest link, and the connection at the vacuum is not a locking fitting.  A design a lot of other vacuums already have like Bosch, Mafell, Dewalt Metabo and cheapies like Shop Vac and Ridgid even have it.  Why didn't they start there? 

I'll go out on a limb and say that more guys have experienced pulling their CT around the shop or jobsite and pulled the hose out of the vacuum body than have ever dislodged their sander from the end fitting.

This just seems like someone's pet project that met their own need , but doesn't translate into the marketplace.  A bit like Piech's VW Phaeton project.

 

[Cheese]

Reference [member=44099]Cheese[/member] comments: I did not read much comment about the old style connectors coming adrift, but there certainly has been a flood of complaints about the new style (even excluding my own!).  I would hope that these comments carry as much weight as the others. (I am not sure I can recall any comments praising the new design.

Ya I agree...I think the new connector is a step backwards. I refuse to use it on my 2 vacs. I have 4 of the new hose fittings and I tossed all of them in a bucket and only use the old style fittings.

What I can't understand, is how this new fitting is even capable of being certified by OSHA for use on lead abatement projects. My guess is that it isn't or that OSHA is totally unaware of this new hose end and the contamination issues it now presents.
It makes little sense to be forced to use a HEPA vac to contain 99.99% of the particulate and then by simply changing out a sander, the particles you've so assiduously attempted to contain, can now simply fall on the ground.  [eek]

I do thank [member=57769]TylerC[/member] for the update though, because I will now order either 4 or 6 of the old style hose connectors before they become unavailable.

 

[jetset95]

Ya I agree...I think the new connector is a step backwards. I refuse to use it on my 2 vacs. I have 4 of the new hose fittings and I tossed all of them in a bucket and only use the old style fittings.

What I can't understand, is how this new fitting is even capable of being certified by OSHA for use on lead abatement projects. My guess is that it isn't or that OSHA is totally unaware of this new hose end and the contamination issues it now presents.
It makes little sense to be forced to use a HEPA vac to contain 99.99% of the particulate and then by simply changing out a sander, the particles you've so assiduously attempted to contain, can now simply fall on the ground.  [eek]

I do thank [member=57769]TylerC[/member] for the update though, because I will now order either 4 or 6 of the old style hose connectors before they become unavailable.

Do you have a link where they are available? I'd like to at least try the old style, my new TS55 only came with the adapter and I don't have a Festool Vac or Hose yet.

 

[Cheese]

Do you have a link where they are available? I'd like to at least try the old style, my new TS55 only came with the adapter and I don't have a Festool Vac or Hose yet.

Actually, we've been provided this information early enough that these old 487 071 hose ends are probably still available just about everywhere.

The problem has been in the past, we were only given a heads-up on obsoleted parts months & months after the fact and through just the normal sales of product, the inventory levels were then depleted to very low levels and it became very frustrating, if not impossible to find the obsoleted items. Think...MFS, aluminum saw blades, steel saw blades, spark arrestors, router sled...

 

[Tyler Ernsberger]

[member=57769]TylerC[/member] The newer hose ends do not provide a better  connection.  The older connection was a lot better and didn't result in dust falling on the floor when dissconnecting a tool.  Also the new connecter doesn't work with the cleaning kits.  I now have to wrap my hand around the connection when using the cleaning kit to prevent air loss.  It is a horrible design and I'm sure Festool spent a lot of time and money in development.  Not sure why they were trying to fix something that's not broke.  All were asking for is that the older style not be discontinued and available for sale.  Give us the option to buy the newer "improved" end or the better older end.
 

 

[jt073]

[member=57769]TylerC[/member] The newer hose ends do not provide a better  connection.  The older connection was a lot better and didn't result in dust falling on the floor when dissconnecting a tool.  Also the new connecter doesn't work with the cleaning kits.  I now have to wrap my hand around the connection when using the cleaning kit to prevent air loss.  It is a horrible design and I'm sure Festool spent a lot of time and money in development.  Not sure why they were trying to fix something that's not broke.  All were asking for is that the older style not be discontinued and available for sale.  Give us the option to buy the newer "improved" end or the better older end.

Thanks T. E.. - I knew there was a third objection, but I forgot to include it - my earlier post now updated!

Cheers

 

[magellan]

It was mentioned that the old style is still available.  It is not as far as I have found.  I have been searching for awhile for one.  March 28 th I ordered one from Ace Tool in NY by phone.  I was told it would be shipped out in a few days.  Then I was sent an email that it was on back order    After a few emails and a phone call today i was sent an email stating they discontinued the part and would be sent the new replacement part.  I replied and declined the new part and asked for a refund.  First time using Ace Tools and it was not very good customer service to make me wait a month and I had to contact them to find out I'm still without the old style hose end. 

I personally do not like the new style hose end.  Too stiff for one thing.  Just offer both styles and the all customers are happy. 

If someone finds a cache of old style hose ends please let me know I'd like to buy one

 

[Laminator]

Antss, I'v been on that limb many times and end up pushing hard while trying to twist the connector in an attempt to make the connection not come out.  Keeping in mind the ct26 is topped with a work center with tools and is quite heavy,  I've given up trying to move it by pulling the hose. 

Have not handled the new end and thankful to have a few of the old ones on hand after hearing about  the new one.

 

[ben_r_]

Anyone know a way that the new DTS/RTS 400 REQ sanders can be converted to the old style hose connection? I am thinking of picking one of them up and it would be the only Festool tool I own with the new connector and I dont like what I have been reading about it and would prefer all my tools had the same.

 

[nickao]

I just dont get what the issue is with the new ends. They dont bother me at all.