New fesBoschtool drills lol

[pingvinlakrits]

Sae:

I talked to a Bosch Demo guy last Friday and I commented on the grip issue. The Flexiclick has been somewhat delayed over here but is "just around the corner" and he was surprised I had one already.

He agreed that the Impact GDX has a really nice grip and arguably "much" better than the other 18V machines. He said that they will introduce the slimmer grip in ALL their 18V models over time, probably as early as later on this year.

I was a bit miffed by this as the Flexiclick is a new product but I am also pleased to hear that they are adressing the "issue".
If one isn't in a hurry I would recommend waiting it out.

Seems to me like they were eager to get the Flexiclick out there for initial market feedback and based it on the existing 18V models initially. Making a slimmer grip version should be a breeze as the rest of the system (as well as the slimmer grip) is already developed.

I am keeping my kit and after comparing the Festool Carvex and the Bosch jigsaw it was an easy choice for me; Bosch 18V barrel grip is narrower, the machine is lighter and handles better  so it is now part of the 18V kit. At the end of the year - if they are releasing a slim grip version of the Flexiclick - I will be happy to exchange the drill. 

The Hammer Drill with Chisel function, the Barrel grip Jigsaw and the Impact drill are all great machines so a slim grip Flexiclick would be the icing on the cake.

 

[sae]

Hooray for slimmer grips! Interesting to hear about the barrel grip jigsaw too. My 18v system of choice is currently Metabo though, but Bosch does make a 10.8v jigsaw as well, which hopefully follows similar principles.

Any hints of a 10.8v version of Flexiclick? I keep looking at the CXS, the Metabo Powermaxx, and the Bosch drivers, and I like the versatility of the CXS and Metabo w/ the interchangeable chucks, but both don't have much 10.8v offerings beyond the drivers (Metabo has an impact driver that's nothing spectacular, and a mini reciprocating saw that is useless). If Bosch made something similar with interchangeable chucks, it would sell me on their 10.8v system, no question.

 

[pingvinlakrits]

The CXS is "it" for me still. The best small drill I have ever used or seen. It is too bad they haven't got more tools for the CXS battery, especially now that the Ah are up to 2,6.

Bosch 10.8V drills are not too shabby and with a quick release system they would probably do well. At least they have gone brushless.

I didn't ask if the Flexiclick was going to go 10.8V so no idea.

Metabo PowerMaxx has a very disappointing grip - if you ever try one you will know what I am talking about. My colleague runs Metabo and after comparing he said that he didn't understand why the made the grip so "uncomfortable". Also, the PowerMaxx is a "large small" driver whereas the CXS is a "small small driver".  For the same reason the Mafell drills and drivers are out of the question for me. 

 

[elfick]

The CXS is "it" for me still. The best small drill I have ever used or seen. It is too bad they haven't got more tools for the CXS battery, especially now that the Ah are up to 2,6.

Like a nice little impact driver to go with the CXS?

 

[thedude306]

I didn't ask if the Flexiclick was going to go 10.8V so no idea.

This coming to the 10.8V line up soooo much sense to me.  I am surprised they went with the 18V line up first.

 

[pingvinlakrits]

UPDATE:

Check out the third "group photo" on this link (copy and paste):

toolguyd.com/bosch-18v-flexiclick-modular-drill-driver-system/

Presto - the Bosch Flexiclick drills _with_ the better and more ergonomic grip!

The drills look slightly different as well as having the "contemporary" grip.

It is still beyond me why Bosch released the Flexiclick System drills with the grip/handle that I got. Trial run/batch? I don't know. Maybe they wanted to drum them out to see how the market would respond but they haven't been to vocal about the Flexiclick as of yet. One of the Bosch representatives over here said that they are going to switch over to the slimmer grips on all their drills. Seeing this photo makes me actually believe they might.

 

[overanalyze]

This really belongs on the 10.8v Bosch platform.

 

[pingvinlakrits]

RLJ-Atl: I think you are right. The Flexiclick is not comparable to the PDC.  I haven't tried the PDC but from what I have heard it is not quite comparable to a hammer drill (though it is as noisy as) so the hammer drill GFA chuck for the Flexiclick might edge out the PDC  in actual performance/use.

I do prefer a lightweight machine base with an add on hammer drill chuck over a heavy all-in-one machine. The latter tends to come with a weight penalty and still seldom perform near the levels of dedicated one-trick-pony machines.

I have the DRC - which I truly like despite the weight but I applaud all efforts to keep things on the light side. The Bosch drill is a serious machine and over the years I have come to trust (blue) Bosch drills. The Flexiclick system really should be carried over to the 10,8V system - in this segment there is always room for those nifty little gadgets.

 

[pingvinlakrits]

After keeping an eye on the market and looking at what Bosch are releasing as New Products here in Sweden I can't help but notice that all their new brushless offerings have that awkward tapered-the-wrong-way handle.  [crying]

I am not sure why Bosch would worsen a product line in terms of ergonomics. Maybe it is the illuminati.

I have had quite a few colleagues try out the Bosch kit by now and often with the standard phrase: I didn't know you were a Bosch guy. Well, it this is the way Bosch is heading I am certainly not a Bosch guy... ...anyway, out of the six-seven people that have tried the FlexiClick by now most have been positive about the feel of it. It's "nice". 

When I subsequently hand them the GDX impact ALL of them have gone: Wow! This one feels great!!! Most of the guys have larger hands than I do and with gloves on there is no contest. The slimmer grip is way better. 

If Bosch is releasing a fat-grip-with-less-rubber-line and replacing the current one I know their 18V system is a dead end for me. Not that they would care about my opinion but I think it is a major step down and I hope I am wrong - but all I can base my assumptions on is the new products they are actually releasing. Why would they release a new product with an old grip? Does not make sense.

Bosch ergonomics department should go out and try the competition. Handle/grip ergonomics are usually great across most brands nowadays.

 

[sae]

Hmm, so what the rep said about them moving to a narrower grip isn't true?

That is certainly curious, both situations, (a) moving to a larger grip, and (b) revising a product so quickly after it's introduction.

I'm glad Metabo made the opposite move, from traditionally fat grips to much narrower.

 

[pingvinlakrits]

Yes, it does not seem to make sense at all.

It could very well be that the rep merely was informed that they were changing the grips on their 18V machines and that he _assumed_they were changing over to the slimmer grips. I don't know what info he was given from Bosch Germany and how it was interpreted at his end. I know information can be distorted along the way for several reasons.

Bosch is the only major brand on the market that is heading in that direction.
In my opinion this is a great mistake.  I think pretty much all other major brands have excellent grips and decent to great balance.

Since I have my lunch quite close to a major dealership that carries Festool, Milwaukee, Hitachi, Bosch, Flex, Panasonic a few other brands I sometimes pop by to see what's going on in the tool world. I went through the whole drill section and concluded that almost all drills had great grips - the exception was the new Bosch line which is a step down from the previous grip.

I sincerely hope I am wrong about this assumption and that they are really releasing slimmer grip versions later on - but why would they release NEW brushless drills mid year with the fatter grip only to revert back to the slimmer grips?

Bosch needs to get a grip and handle this.

 

[sae]

I was actually at the local hardware store last night, and played with the GDX (IDH182 here). There's a pretty big difference to the other drills as you said.

It looks like their 18v impact tools (GDS, GDR, GDX) all have the slim grips, while the regular drill/drivers all get fat where it nears the battery connection.

 

[pingvinlakrits]

Sae: yup, it is rather strange, isn't it.  ???

It turns out that the smaller 10,8V brushless are getting a new bulky grip as well - I was picking up some small stuff at the hardware store today and passed the Bosch section and noticed a 10,8V drill I had not seen.

The grip was quite awkward and not nearly as nice as the previous grips.  I also handled another 18V new Bosch machine and it was exactly as bad as the other ones. Today it was painfully obvious the day after a game of Badminton (it's been a while) and the older style grips were still great to handle with a sore underarm but the new one felt even worse...

When I angled it to the side as one would when drilling/driving stuff sideways when close to the floor it was really bad to hold.  [mad]

Of the smaller machines I think Metabo (and Mafell too) tie with Bosch new line for quite awkward grip ergonomics. The all bulge out at the base. Makita 10,8V drills are really nice, as are Hitachi and (from memory) Milwaukee smaller drills, and of course the CXS/TXS.

Well, I have vented my frustration enough to give it a rest and move on to other machines. I do suspect the customer feedback will be negative for Bosch and hopefully they will turn the tide by introducing better grips. The rest of the machines seem to be well made and dropping the ball on the grips is something that they can fix.

I will take every opportunity to take a stab at the new grips whenever I run into a Bosch rep in store or out and about.

 

[pingvinlakrits]

There is a _slight_chance I might get my FlexiClick modified to a bonafide smaller grip. Will let you know this weekend as I made a discovery in the line up that might work with some minor reconstruction from my side. It is currently shipping... [tongue]

I used the FlexiClick the other day - with the SDS hammer attachment and the whole system is really let down by the poor grip ergonomics!!!  I honestly dislike handling the GSR drills even for a short while.  [mad]

The SDS Hammer attachment works fine up to 8mm and struggles a little in conrete with 10mm but it does punch through eventually. It is not a gimmick - it works!

My hope is that the FlexiClick will se a LI (Light) version soon with a slimmer grip. If my mod works I won't need it of course.  I have a #4 Systainer with a few 18V tools in it and they are all excellent - except the FlexiClick.

Currently comparing the Carvex 420 to the Bosch 18V barrel grip jigsaw, it is hard to decide whether I should return the Carvex or not. Weight is the same but the Bosch wins out in some aspects - size, grip and blade change plus the blade stops immediately. Also, no need for add ons to tilt the base.

 

[pingvinlakrits]

Ok, so here is how I ended up:

Ordered a GSR HX LI (solo) unit and did a swap over.

FlexiClick on the left and GSR HX LI on the right:

The HX Li has the previous grip with more rubber. The difference between the grips is not huge but the older grip is roughly a mm narrower and (surprisingly) almost a mm deeper than the new grip. The difference in use for me is more than meets the eye. Though it is still not that great with gloves on the older grip is better and feels more secure when working odd angles. Funny that a little rubber and a little variation in depth and width can have such an impact.

Judging from photos on the interwebz I figured that the first FlexiClicks were perhaps even based on the GSR HX LI machine and that a straight front plate swap might be possible or maybe even simply transferring the machine over to the other casing.

It wasn't all that easy since the brushless motor unit would not allow a straight swap and though it was actually possible to straight swap the front plates the FlexiClick fixture has deeper set front screws and for longevitys sake I thought it better to do it properly.

I had to open them up and swap over the internal plastic casing for the front chuck from one machine to another. All other springs and coverplates were the same and after a cup of coffee it was not to hard to put humpty and dumpty back together again.

In order to do this I had to forfeit the brushless motor for the better grip. The older unit I believe has higher specs and I wasn't too concerned about my voiding the warranties on the two units. Also, I got myself a brushless straight hex bit unit I will hardly ever use due to the poor grip.

After I was done I did a quick test with the conversion and ran four consecutive 127mm holes in 19mm mdf with the new FrankenClick with a slightly dull holesaw and ran the last three in second gear. The machine ran a little hot in the end but this is just about as much as I would torment a drill and it came through with flying colors.

I haven't tried the SDS attachment with the new motor fitting but I think it will do the job well as they have virtually the same specs with the older unit actually having higher NM on paper.

I am "ok" with the grip now but I hope they will release a slimmer grip or LI (Light) version of the FlexiClick. My unit was manufactured in 2014 so I think they might churn some new ones out eventually and if they come through I will pick up a new Solo unit and give away the brushless hex bit machine and keep this modified one as the wing man.

Last thing I did was to swap over the belt clips as well, the newer belt clip is a little longer and feels more secure though the old one was not bad.

 

[pingvinlakrits]

PS

Added the Impact driver in the comparison shot, the one I think has one of the best grips on the market. A FlexiClick with that grip... ...yes please.

 

[sae]

Wow, nice swap! Interesting that the fan on the brushless model doesn't seem to have an exhaust port, I wonder how it works.

 

[pingvinlakrits]

sae: it really moves some air I tell you.
The vent holes are fairly large and it does shift more air than the other model.
It has a black (air deflector?) collar, hardly visible in the image of the interior. I am not sure it spins but it might be distributing the air. It is not present on the other machine. 

 

[dutchie]

sae: it really moves some air I tell you.
The vent holes are fairly large and it does shift more air than the other model.
It has a black (air deflector?) collar, hardly visible in the image of the interior. I am not sure it spins but it might be distributing the air. It is not present on the other machine.

Hi Henrik,

In light of the fact that a Centrotec chuck can be used on the new Metabo/Mafell 18v (and 10,8v I presume) drills, do you know if the Centrotec chuck also fits on the Flexi Click body's? I presume it doesn't since these already have a 1/4 hex chuck 'built in?' But was curious if you could clarify this. If you still own them, I seem to remember you writing in another topic you were not entirely happy with the Bosch drills?

 

[pingvinlakrits]

Hello Dutchie,
unfortunately the Centrotec chucks do not fit on the Bosch system.

My biggest complaint with Bosch was the grip and I did not keep it. I still have some Bosch 18V tools and if they release a better grip drill in the future I might get one to round off the Bosch kit.