OF 1400 for "big jobs". Fine. What's a "big job"?

[wilburpan]

I think I've read every OF 1010 vs. OF 1400 thread in this forum over the past few days, and there seems to be two main reasons to get an OF 1400 rather than an OF 1010:

1.  If you have a bunch of 1/2" shank router bits already.  This doesn't apply to me since I would be starting from ground zero with a router.

2.  The OF 1400 is used for jobs that are "too big" for the OF 1010.

The second is where I could use some clarification.  What do all of you OF 1400 users mean by "too big"?

Specifically, would routing a 3/4" wide 3/8" deep dado in plywood be too big for the OF 1010?

 

[mouppe]

A third reason is that you can do small jobs with a big router, but not vice versa. So if this is your first router purchase, the OF1400 allows you to do it all. Maybe you can specialize down the line by getting the 1010 but most people, I would imagine, do not buy both at first.

Richard.

 

[ajones]

small jobs use 1/4 in cutters ie fitting hinges to doors you dont want a big heavy router for this. big jobs uses 1/2 cutters ie raised panels. a medium sized router with a 1/2 inch collet can be used with a 1/4 collet so covers most of the bases.
and to awnser you question yes you could route that dado with the smaller machine. several passes would be best.
if I was buying a 3/4 wide bit I would get the 1/2 in rather than the 1/4 but thats just me [big grin]

 

[jvsteenb]

I may not be the best to reply, since I?m from Europe, and 8mm shank bits are abundant over here - no need to use 1/4" shank bits, it's even very difficult to get them over here if you would want to do so for some obscure reason.
My 1010 does evrything I want from a handheld router and I don?t feel it?s lacking in the power department.
For the really "Big Bits" I?d love to have that versatile portable shaper that Festool brands "OF2200E" , but it'll have to wait.

Regards,

Job

 

[Brice Burrell]

I think Job is right on the money. With 8 mm shank bits the 1010 can handle almost all handheld routing applications. Routing a 3/8" deep dado won't be a problem. Festool router bits are pricey, in my experience they are outstanding bits.

Btw, 1" and up roundover, long mortising, larger profile bits are the type I'd consider better suited for the 1400. 

 

[Kevin D.]

I got the 1400 first, then the MFK 700.  One day....mmmaaaayyybbeeee....I'd like the 1010.  Seems the 1010 is the preferred one for the LR32 using it fastened to the thing-a-ma-jiggy thing on the LR32 guide rails, but the 1400 works fine as well.

The 2200 on the other hand would be rarely handheld used/needed.  I have a PC7518 spare sitting around, 2 Craftsman 3 1/4HP routers (one dedicated to my Leigh FMT, the other for future spare parts...if ever), and a Milwaukee 5626 in my Jessem table with the remote on/off/variable control, and a Freud somewhere that I couldn't resist at $150, which has never been used.  I think I need to get my head wrapped around how to sell things online one day. [huh]

I remember seeing Norm on a show many many years ago, open a drawer full of routers and thinking to myself, what the heck would you want/need so many routers?  [crying]

 

[Jesse Cloud]

Ah yes, the 1010 vs 1400 argument again.  Well, I think the argument goes on because for most people there is no one answer.  Both routers can do most things most of us want.

One bit of advice I would give is that if you are starting from scratch, avoid the 1/4 inch bits.  They just aren't as steady as the thicker shanks and will "chatter" on hard cuts, which produces uneven results on your workpiece.  8mm are much better, whichever router you go with.

I have both and wouldn't give up either.  The 1400, which is mostly my "go-to" router is more powerful and can plunge deeper than the 1010, but its also considerably heavier.  With many applications, you will lift that router over and over again and by the end of the day, you appreciate the lighter weight of the 1010.

On the other hand, the 1400 has a swell racheting collet that makes bit changing almost fun.  I'm the only one who seems to feel that way, but I think the 1010 depth mechanism isn't as sturdy as the of1400, I swear it has loosened up on me in the past, but maybe that's just 'blaming the tool' for user error.

Certainly, either router can handle the dado,  though neither router should be expected to do it in one pass.

And, if in the long run you wind up buying both routers, that is not a bad thing.   I often use both on the same project to avoid changing bits and setups.  We often joke about having a router for each bit you have......

Let us know how it works out, and don't hesitate to ask questions - there's a world of experience in this group.

 

[woodguy7]

Definitely the 1400 first, then the 1010.  I make a lot of staircases & you have to router 12mm deep in 1 pass with a 95 degree dovetail cutter.  It is usually in Oak or Ash & it it quite a cut, one that the 1010 would never manage.  For lighter stuff though, the 1010 is a sweet router.

Woodguy.

 

[wilburpan]

Thanks for the feedback, everyone.  Just to clarify some things:

Since I'd be starting from scratch, I do plan on getting the 8mm router bits.  As a matter of fact, I added up the prices of a basic set of Festool 8mm router bits, and compared them to the equivalent Whiteside 1/2" shank router bits, and the price difference wasn't a whole lot, to my surprise.

The main things I foresee using this router for is for relatively quick and dirty cabinet assembly -- making dadoes, grooves, and rabbets.  I mainly use hand tools for most things, and I don't have a table saw for various reasons, so that's the main purpose for this router and the TS 55 that I'll be buying in the near future.  Of course, things may change [big grin].

The reason that I posted this question is that I don't have a good grasp on what a "big job" is where the OF 1010/1400 are concerned.  The biggest job I can think of that I see using a router for is to make a 3/4" dado/groove for plywood.  The other "big job" I can think of is panel raising and making moldings, but I can do those tasks with hand tools, so I probably won't use the router for that.  Round overs, chamfers, and tongue and grooves I can do by hand, as well as dovetails.

I am a complete newbie when it comes to electron burning routers, however, so I wanted to see if there was anything I'm missing.

 

[woodguy7]

Sounds like the 1010 will do you just fine.  If you think a cut might be hard going, raise it up & take a couple of extra passes at it.  Your bits will last longer also.

Woodguy

 

[clintholeman]

With a FesTool saw and  guide rail, you really don't need a TS [let the fights begin javascript:void(0)  javascript:void(0)].

Save the money and buy both routers or an RO 150 or ???

 

[AlexThePalex]

The reason that I posted this question is that I don't have a good grasp on what a "big job" is where the OF 1010/1400 are concerned. 

With "big job" most people mean that you can use bigger router bits in the OF1400. Using bigger router bits means you can make more elaborate or exotic profiles. A lot of people here talk about dados but that is not the best way to point out the difference between the 1010 and the 1400 since both can make most dados you'll need.

The biggest difference between both routers is the size of the bits they take. The 1010 with 8mm shank max will let you use 30 mm wide bits at most, 35 mm if you stretch it. The 1/2'' shank on the other hand will allow bits up to 55 mm wide, 65 if you stretch it. The 1/2'' bits can also be longer than the 8 mm bits.

For most standard every day router jobs like dados or small roundovers the 8 mm bits will suffice but if you're for instance into making furniture with special edge profiles, the 8 mm bits are not enough and you will want to get 1/2'' bits.

You can best have a look at the different types of bit sizes to fully understand what I'm saying.

For instance, a typical set of 8 mm bits you'll find a lot:

[attachimg=1]

And then some of the more exotic 1/2'' bits. These bits are simply not available in 8 mm.

[attachimg=2]

[attachimg=3]

[attachimg=4]

[attachimg=5]

Get the difference?

With a FesTool saw and  guide rail, you really don't need a TS.

Don't let any of these plunge saw nutters  [poke] ever talk you into believing that!  [mad] The TS is one of the best tools a woodworker can ever get and should always be high on your list.  [cool]

 

[Jesse Cloud]

If you are looking for something to cut dadoes for plywood with, no reason for anything beyond the 1010 (except maybe a guiderail and the adapter for the 1010 to run on the guiderail, and maybe the mft...).  BTW, plywood is only nominally 3/4, in practice its a highly variable amount less.  If you are doing high end stuff, and it sounds like you are if you are making raised panels and dovetails with handtools, you might consider a rabbet on the ply and an equivalentally smaller dado to hide any tearout/inconsistencies in the dado.

If you are looking for a router to raise panels, then my first suggestion would be to look at a shaper.  Otherwise, look at a 3 HP router in a router table.

 

[wilburpan]

On the other hand, the 1400 has a swell racheting collet that makes bit changing almost fun.  I'm the only one who seems to feel that way, but I think the 1010 depth mechanism isn't as sturdy as the of1400, I swear it has loosened up on me in the past, but maybe that's just 'blaming the tool' for user error.

Ah -- that's something I didn't consider.  Are there any other control/ergonomic differences that would tip you one way or another between the two?

 

[Daviddubya]

I'm going to try to influence your decision strictly on the basis of bit choices.  With the OF1400 you have the options of 1/4", 8mm and 1/2".  I own too many router bits.  There are a few bits that get used a lot and a lot of bits that get used infrequently.  I buy less expensive bits for one-time or infrequent jobs, and high quality bits for more demanding use.  If I wear out a less expensive bit, I replace it with a high quality bit.  A problem with 8mm bits is price - they are ALL expensive.  Therefore I use a few 1/4" and mostly 1/2" bits, which are easy to buy at several price points in the USA.

For small jobs I also own a Bosch Colt trim router.  A trim router, like the Colt, is great to use for things like edge trimming with a bearing guided bit.  And a Colt is only about $100.

 

[score0matic]

Sounds like the 1010 will do you just fine.  If you think a cut might be hard going, raise it up & take a couple of extra passes at it.  Your bits will last longer also.

Woodguy

Ditto.  If you have read the threads  a common  theme among those who own both is "about 90% of the time i reach for the 1010"  The OF 1400 is a compromise router for those who cannot justify both the 1010 and the 2200.  Then again if you have read all the thread you know that I am a BIG fan of the little router

Thanks Craig

 

[Bob Marino]

Hey Wilbur,

I don't know that there is a right or wrong answer here, but especially in your case, being a hand tool guy, where control is an issue/concern I'd suggest the 1010.
You have no investment in 1/2" bits, so that's not an issue. I have come to prefer the smallest/lightest tool that does the job well; just seems to offer more precise control. I think you'd agree.

  Bob

 

[John Stevens]

The main things I foresee using this router for is for relatively quick and dirty cabinet assembly -- making dadoes, grooves, and rabbets.

Hi, Doc, belated welcome to the FOG, nice to see you here.

Regarding the use of a router for dadoes and grooves, you may want to search for some of Jay St. Peter's posts here and reconsider whether a Festool router is what you want.  Jay owns a Festool router, but found that his shop-made jigs were better for making dadoes and grooves than the Festool router mounted on the guide rail.  To make a long story short, it has to do with how the "leveling foot" works...or doesn't work, as the case may be.  I own the 1010 and think Jay's opinion has some serious merit, although I admit I use the guide rail because I'm too lazy to make a dado jig.  For those who prefer shop-made jigs, any router will do, and some of the PC and DW routers have dust collection (I share your concern about wood dust) and are built reasonably well.

Second, you may want to reconsider whether you need a router at all for this purpose.  The TS-55 or TS-75 will do a credible job of making rabbets and dadoes and grooves as long as they're not "stopped."

Third, depending on your preferences, you may find that you don't need to use dadoes, grooves or rabbets in your carcase pieces.  I know, sounds heretical, but after trying to destroy some test pieces that were merely butted and glued, I'm convinced that dadoes and rabbets are not necessary if strength is the sole concern.  It all depends on materials and adhesives.  Carcases made of "sheet goods" rather than solid wood will be strong enough to park a car on if butted and glued.  (Depending on the dimensions, I would bet the deed to my house on it.)  If you really feel the need for mechanical fasteners (I use them mainly for alignment), a Domino or good biscuit joiner will do.  BTW, either of those tools can be used for grooving--not nearly as quickly if you're doing a lot of grooves, but if only doing a couple, the reduced set-up and clean-up time may be a reasonable trade off. Virtually zero dust from those tools, BTW.

For more info on this type of cabinet construction, there are two sources of info I'd refer you to.  For glue-only joints with sheet goods, there's an amazing, eye-opening article called "Strong, No Clamp-up Corner Joints" by Steve Latta in the March-April 1998 edition of FWW.  Available online for a fee.  (Latta uses a table saw, but you a TS-55 does the job even better.)  Make yourself a few test pieces using his techniques try to destroy them, and you'll see for yourself whether you really need rabbets, grooves or dadoes.  One of the things you've gotta try is to make a test piece with a fixed shelf butted and glued between the sides of a carcase.  Follow the directions of the glue mfr as to use of clamps and time required for curing before stressing the joint.  Then, when the glue's cured, go ahead and try to put enough weight on the shelf to break the glue bond.  Make sure you have a few hundred pounds available.  It'll blow your mind.

The second source of info would be any of the cabinet-making books by Danny Proulx.  His construction methods and ideas really simplify the process of making carcases.  His uses screws (not my preference) but you can transfer most of his info to your preferred method of fastening the panels.

Hope this helps.

Regards,

John

 

[Daviddubya]

...To make a long story short, it has to do with how the "leveling foot" works...or doesn't work, as the case may be....

There are solutions to the "leveling foot" or outrigger problem, at least with the OF1400.  For one approach see this thread:

http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-jigs-tool-enhancements/of1400-router-enhancement/

 

[Joe Jensen]

I don't own a Festool router yet, but once I used 1/2" shank bits, I stopped buying any bit that was not available in 1/2" shank.  I also sold a used 1/4" shank set of Leigh dovetal bits at a deep discount to upgrade to 8mm shank bits and the improvement was significant.

I find 1/4" shank bits have more chatter and the finish is worse than with 1/2" shank bits.

Now I only really use 1/4" shank bits that are 1/4" or less in diameter.