OF1400 and LR32 - why doesn't of1400 come with an 8mm collet?!

[MikeGE]

So the US probably paid more because half the local businesses probably didn't even care to bid on a contract with weird units.

I was on the source selection board, and the contract was awarded to one of the two local German companies.  The other bidders were observant enough to see the bolded statement on the drawing package cover sheet and Note 1 on every drawing that clearly stated all measurements were imperial.  The bidding was open to all sources, which included UK and US firms.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

But really, that Sys3 is bad in so many ways...
Even with a 137 the front handle won't sit flush if connected to a previous generation T-Loc below it because of the slightly bigger T

[member=8955]Coen[/member] I get it. I hate them as much as you do. I'm just less vocal about it. I feel like it was a shift to something that no-one wanted. They just abandoned those of us who have been using them for years, in favor of something that those of us in the US had never even heard about. (Bott) It's just not a thing here. 

 

[mino]

... (Bott) It's just not a thing here.

It's not really a thing in Europe either. In US, you can at least buy the slides from Festool ...

I would not know what Bott is - as in: "Never ever heard or seen." - were it not for this Systainer mess.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

Really? So where in the heck does Festool think this market is? If we don't know it here and you don't know it there, who is driving this? Certainly, they are not trying to create a market, especially at the expense of long-time users?

 

[luvmytoolz]

Really? So where in the heck does Festool think this market is? If we don't know it here and you don't know it there, who is driving this? Certainly, they are not trying to create a market, especially at the expense of long-time users?

If SYS3 is the one with detents to lock the handles in place, what a PITA to use, I'm chiselling the lug off my ones so the handles can move freely! The fact it's also just that bit higher than the older model also screws up the racks I built to store them in.

IMHO it's a solution looking for a problem.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

Really? So where in the heck does Festool think this market is? If we don't know it here and you don't know it there, who is driving this? Certainly, they are not trying to create a market, especially at the expense of long-time users?

If SYS3 is the one with detents to lock the handles in place, what a PITA to use, I'm chiselling the lug off my ones so the handles can move freely! The fact it's also just that bit higher than the older model also screws up the racks I built to store them in.

IMHO it's a solution looking for a problem.

Yes, that's the ones....and those are not the only problems. The extra sizes do not conform with the standard that was designed in before. They screwed up the proportions. The top handles move the opposite direction, even the lettering is reversed? The front handles are a problem too. They are "false" on the larger ones and they interfere with the latch on the smallest ones.
The engineers had it right and some marketing wanks went away from it

 

[luvmytoolz]

Yes, that's the ones....and those are not the only problems. The extra sizes do not conform with the standard that was designed in before. They screwed up the proportions. The top handles move the opposite direction, even the lettering is reversed? The front handles are a problem too. They are "false" on the larger ones and they interfere with the latch on the smallest ones.
The engineers had it right and some marketing wanks went away from it

It never ceases to amaze me that these sorts of changes or things don't occur without having been proposed, designed and approved by committee, in which case you'd think at least one sane person in cases like these might say "do you think that's a stupid idea?"!

As you mentioned, I think the false handle on the large units is just idiotic, surely no engineer with any self pride would have suggested that?

 

[Coen]

That false handle is the same the Bosch L-Boxx has. It's intended to pull out the box from it's rack.

Now compare some more; L-boxx is usually lots of wasted space. Same sys3. L-boxx has locking top handle, so does sys3. L-Boxx doesn't have a card insert; sys3 dropped it's side cardslots.

However, nixing the height system was the dumbest thing as far as I see it. A Bosch L-Boxx 102 and a 136 (the next size) stack to the same as the next size; 238. Just like a Systainer 1 + Systainer 2 used to stack to the height of a Systainer 4.

 

[Coen]

So the US probably paid more because half the local businesses probably didn't even care to bid on a contract with weird units.

I was on the source selection board, and the contract was awarded to one of the two local German companies.  The other bidders were observant enough to see the bolded statement on the drawing package cover sheet and Note 1 on every drawing that clearly stated all measurements were imperial.  The bidding was open to all sources, which included UK and US firms.

A US or UK firm is not gonna be able to make a competitive offer such a distance outside their normal market and the German firms probably all marked it up because they had to convert everything. Clockwise or counter clockwise... the USA paid more because of the stupid units.

 

[Cheese]

Really? So where in the heck does Festool think this market is? If we don't know it here and you don't know it there, who is driving this? Certainly, they are not trying to create a market, especially at the expense of long-time users?

Festool USA is trying to drum up some enthusiasm for the concept. Check out the recent Festool Live Episode 109. Sedge is also threatening to record a 2nd session.
=3

I also hate the SYS 3 fiasco, a front handle that flaps around and makes noise all the time while you're driving, the top handle pivots in the wrong direction, no card slots on the sides, goofy stacking heights. Actually for the new tools I'm purchasing, I'm putting the new tools in older T-Locs and using the SYS 3 for storing other stuff.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

Yes, the proportional size is the most important to me too. The others are more of an inconvenience.
Combining them correctly will get you two stacks that are equal.
Plus, they all fit into the 32mm system. You build storage cabinets based in that and they fit.
My first experience with this was the RO125 which came in the new sized Sys3 that is bigger than the T-loc 2 that it would have been in before. This screwed up my system. I made it fit by dropping the drawer slides down to the bottom of the cabinet, but that's not in the 32mm holes.
The front handles are of no use to me, or anyone with Sys-Az drawers.
The top handles "snap" to keep them from rattling in the truck with the Bott racks.
The handles swing foreword to keep them from snagging when sliding in the racks, again no need it the original system. When the drawer is pulled out to access a Systainer, the handle naturally falls to the back, so it doesn't get in the way when pushing it back in either.
The Bott racks are for truck storage only, they are not intended to be opened/accessed, like the Sys-Az, or shop made drawers. Again, not the original intent of the system.

Tanos could make a line of Bott-specific models and leave the system the way it was.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

I also hate the SYS 3 fiasco, a front handle that flaps around and makes noise all the time while you're driving, the top handle pivots in the wrong direction, no card slots on the sides, goofy stacking heights. Actually for the new tools I'm purchasing, I'm putting the new tools in older T-Locs and using the SYS 3 for storing other stuff.

Maybe that's it? They can sell some more T-locs to the guys who dislike the new ones.
Seems like the T-locs are not being discontinued by Tanos? The other colors are still available as well as drawer unit and Combi units.

 

[jeh]

Afaik Mafell uses the T-Loc Systainers, not the Sys3, so superior in that aspect.

Not yet. They were slow to move T-Loc.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

Afaik Mafell uses the T-Loc Systainers, not the Sys3, so superior in that aspect.

Not yet. They were slow to move T-Loc.

Maybe they are wise enough to stick with a good thing? Then again, the don't have near the extensive line of tools or need for sizes.

The other companies that use custom Systainers for their products, have T-loc. Shaper, TSO, WoodPeckers, Mirka, Fein, Bessey, even Spax screws are available in T-loc.

 

[Cheese]

The other companies that use custom Systainers for their products, have T-loc. Shaper, TSO, WoodPeckers, Mirka, Fein, Bessey, even Spax screws are available in T-loc.

TSO & Woodpeckers are now SYS 3. [sad] [crying]

 

[Crazyraceguy]

The other companies that use custom Systainers for their products, have T-loc. Shaper, TSO, WoodPeckers, Mirka, Fein, Bessey, even Spax screws are available in T-loc.

TSO & Woodpeckers are now SYS 3. [sad] [crying]

Bummer. My Woodpecker Track square is in T-loc, but it's over a year old too.
Fein doesn't offer it that way anymore, but they did a few years ago.
I'm still thinking about buying that Bessey set.

 

[Cheese]

Bummer. My Woodpecker Track square is in T-loc, but it's over a year old too.
Fein doesn't offer it that way anymore, but they did a few years ago.
I'm still thinking about buying that Bessey set.

That's the reason I recently purchased the Shaper accessory Systainer before that was also changed over to SYS 3.  [mad]

 

[MikeGE]

A US or UK firm is not gonna be able to make a competitive offer such a distance outside their normal market and the German firms probably all marked it up because they had to convert everything. Clockwise or counter clockwise... the USA paid more because of the stupid units.

You might be surprised how competitive overseas (with respect to Germany) firms can be when bidding on local projects.  Some subcontract all or part of the work to local firms and others perform the work with their own resources.  The proposals identify the division of labor and source of materials.

I developed and managed construction and renovation projects in Germany for 22 years before I retired.  Proposals are evaluated for best value to the government based on factors that include, but not limited to, innovation, technical approach, risk identification and management, past performance with similar projects, and finally cost.  However, cost is not necessarily a deciding factor if the proposal justifies the higher amount.

 

[mino]

TSO & Woodpeckers are now SYS 3. [sad] [crying]

Though TSO uses SYS M 112, so there is really no change as one can always remove the front handle ..

Same will be the case for Spax and WP, I presume.

 

[Coen]

TSO & Woodpeckers are now SYS 3. [sad] [crying]

Though TSO uses SYS M 112, so there is really no change as one can always remove the front handle ..

Same will be the case for Spax and WP, I presume.

Reversed handle direction, no side card slots.