PDC Noise

[andy5405]

My understanding is that it's not a true hammer drill

It is a true hammer drill, because what it does is hammering. It is just that there are different mechanisms to achieve the hammering. This type of hammer drill is older than the more evolved and more powerful pneumatic hamer drill which uses a piston instead of two ribbed plates.

    When ever these conversations come it is good to keep in mind terminology differences around the world. In the USA hammer drill (though sometimes used collectively for both types)  generally refers to those that have a regular Jacobs style chuck and operate like the PDC. While the SDS type is called a rotary hammer or SDS drill.  A quick look at manufacturer nomenclature will show this.

Seth

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drill_bit_shank#cite_note-SDSplus-1

This wiki page explains why an SDS drill is so much more efficient. I bought an SDS years ago and haven't picked up a hammer drill since that day. It doesn't matter who makes a hammer drill, it's like comparing a Lada to a Bentley.

 

[AlexThePalex]

I found that the PDC in hammer mode in gear 4 does not work in old hard concrete, I sent mine back and this is the only Festool item that I have ever sent back. No one knows what is wrong at Festool either.

This is normal, this type of hammer mechanism is mostly suitable for bricks because it doesn't have the power for concrete, which is a lot harder.

 

[mrboult]

It is so loud in hammer mode that I was almost scared to use it. And if I didn't have ear protection I wouldn't. I have no idea why it is so loud. It's def' not just the speed!

 

[Throwback7r]

I found that the PDC in hammer mode in gear 4 does not work in old hard concrete, I sent mine back and this is the only Festool item that I have ever sent back. No one knows what is wrong at Festool either.

This is normal, this type of hammer mechanism is mostly suitable for bricks because it doesn't have the power for concrete, which is a lot harder.

This is funny, the Hitachi Hammer drill and a Millwaukee hammer drill did the job. Have you ever tried the PDC on concrete in gear 4 ?

 

[Cheese]

Hammer drills are not meant to be used for production type drilling in fully cured concrete. They're for occasional use, drilling small diameter holes at shallow depths in relatively soft cementious based materials.
For convenience, I use a hammer drill for a couple of 3/8" diameter holes, but any more holes or anything larger, I'll reach for the rotary hammer. I own a Milwaukee 3/4" SDS and a Milwaukee 1 1/2" SDS-Plus rotary hammer and they perform 99.5% of all the cement drilling I do.
Drilling with a hammer drill is slow and it wears the 3-jaw chuck out at a very rapid rate. I liken it to using a rock for a hammer, if a rock is all you have then use it, but it's not a fun endeavor.

 

[AlexThePalex]

This is funny, the Hitachi Hammer drill and a Millwaukee hammer drill did the job. Have you ever tried the PDC on concrete in gear 4 ?

Yes I have. It was a slow process. As with any hammer drill of this type.

Hammer drills were the norm around here because it was all you need when all houses are made from bricks. But, starting in the 80's, houses were more and more built out of concrete, and the first advice for a new homeowner was to get an SDS drill, even to hang a picture. The old hammer drills just couldn't cut it anymore.

Were the Hitachi and Milwaukee corded drills? You can't expect a cordless drill to have the same power as a corded.

 

[Birdhunter]

As the OP, I appreciate all the input.

I think I'll stick with my TI15, T18, and Bosch corded SDS drill.

The PDC doesn't appear to offer anything I need based on the type of projects I do.

If there was a drill that merged the capabilities of the T18 and the TI15, I might be interested. The TI15 is a pretty good option for driving lag bolts, but no competition for the T18 for pure drilling work. So, I need to take both with me when I work on outdoor projects.

 

[greg mann]

I think we all tend to get disappointed when we want or expect one tool to do too broad a range of tasks. This seems to be especially true of drills and miter saws, for some reason.

Take the Kapex for example: we love that it is easy to carry but want it as rigid as a hundred pound cast iron OMGA.

Our drills are: too light duty, too heavy, not powerful enough, too big, too small........

IMO, so far, I think the PDC does a wider range of tasks better than any other cordless drill I have used. I am not inclined to think it will work well inside a cabinet or punch big access holes in floor joists, or replace and SDS, but it comes closer to all of three of those tasks than any other drill and there are plenty of tasks that fall in its big sweet spot.

 

[Cheese]

But, starting in the 80's, houses were more and more built out of concrete, and the first advice for a new homeowner was to get an SDS drill, even to hang a picture. The old hammer drills just couldn't cut it anymore.

[member=5277]Alex[/member]
Just curious, are the walls actually poured concrete? If so, that must be an expensive proposition. What happens when a second floor is added, is that made from Spancrete (to complete the concrete theme) or is it a traditional wooden joist system?

 

[Kev]

I think we all tend to get disappointed when we want or expect one tool to do too broad a range of tasks. This seems to be especially true of drills and miter saws, for some reason.

Take the Kapex for example: we love that it is easy to carry but want it as rigid as a hundred pound cast iron OMGA.

Our drills are: too light duty, too heavy, not powerful enough, too big, too small........

IMO, so far, I think the PDC does a wider range of tasks better than any other cordless drill I have used. I am not inclined to think it will work well inside a cabinet or punch big access holes in floor joists, or replace and SDS, but it comes closer to all of three of those tasks than any other drill and there are plenty of tasks that fall in its big sweet spot.

Well said.

Typically a tool with a large sweet spot will seem to be more of a compromise at the extreme ends of it's useful envelope than a tool with a very narrow one.

You'd need 2 or 3 different tools to do everything the PDC can do. Yes, with three different tools then you'd have an even broader ability ... that's the trade off.

 

[Birdhunter]

Regarding poured concrete .....

My house has a basement and the walls are poured concrete. The house itself is wood frame construction. Some basements have concrete block walls. Generally, the poured walls are more expensive than the block walls. My builder said the poured walls are stronger and have better water resistance.

I've mounter anchors in my basement walls. My Bosch SDS will make clean holes. A concrete bit in a regular drill or even in my TI15, will not penetrate the wall.

We once owned property in the Miami area. All the newer houses we looked at were totally concrete block construction mostly because of the pervasive termite infestation.

 

[AlexThePalex]

Just curious, are the walls actually poured concrete? If so, that must be an expensive proposition. What happens when a second floor is added, is that made from Spancrete (to complete the concrete theme) or is it a traditional wooden joist system?

There are many different techniques, but a very large part of new houses these days is made from precast concrete. Complete walls, floors and stairs are all poured in a factory and then driven to the building site and assembled like a big lego kit. Only the foundation is poured on site, or also made of precast concrete beams.

With this way of building, there is no joist system, all the concrete panels are simply connected together. In general, wood has very little structural use here these days, it is only used for trim and window/door frames. Unless somebody specifically wants a more traditional house.

And yes, houses are expensive over here. The smallest starter houses are € 200.000 and up.

All-wooden houses that you see so often in America are pretty rare here.

[attachimg=1]

 

[Kev]

Just curious, are the walls actually poured concrete? If so, that must be an expensive proposition. What happens when a second floor is added, is that made from Spancrete (to complete the concrete theme) or is it a traditional wooden joist system?

There are many different techniques, but a very large part of new houses these days is made from precast concrete. Complete walls, floors and stairs are all poured in a factory and then driven to the building site and assembled like a big lego kit. Only the foundation is poured on site, or also made of precast concrete beams.

With this way of building, there is no joist system, all the concrete panels are simply connected together. In general, wood has very little structural use here these days, it is only used for trim and window/door frames. Unless somebody specifically wants a more traditional house.

And yes, houses are expensive over here. The smallest starter houses are € 200.000 and up.

All-wooden houses that you see so often in America are pretty rare here.

[attachimg=1]

Has AAC/Hebel lost popularity? I (innocently) thought it was a major part of Euro home construction these days.

[member=5277]Alex[/member]

 

[Birdhunter]

My house is large and has a very complex footprint and roofline. It's 2 floors over a full basement. I think the cost with all concrete walls would be multiples of the wood frame price. I've been in German homes and they are much quieter and built to last centuries. I had a German associate whose home had been under construction for 2 years and still had months to go. Not many home builders in the U.S.could/would build like that.

 

[AlexThePalex]

Has AAC/Hebel lost popularity? I (innocently) thought it was a major part of Euro home construction these days.

That stuff is also used a lot. Like I said, there are many different techniques these days.

If you look at the picture in my post above, you can see the concrete panels make up the frame of the housing block, and then the outer walls can be filled in with AAC blocks because of it's thermal insulating properties. And non-load bearing interior walls are also often made out of it. 

 

[Cheese]

...I had a German associate whose home had been under construction for 2 years and still had months to go. Not many home builders in the U.S.could/would build like that.

Unfortunately, not many potential U.S. homeowners could/would allow the builders to build that way either. Rush, rush, rush...