PoWeR

[pierreblonde]

The farmer will have a wayleave agreement with the farmer to work on there lines on his land. he gets paid a small fee each year for it
as long as the new line is going underground he cant stop them from working on it. he can only say anything if they want to put extra poles in
Sometimes there is no wayleave in that case he cant stop them working on it anyway
I had the same problem with a farmer and a new connection to my house. he wanted 10,000 off me to let them connect the line !!
i never payed anything. its up to the electricity company to sort it out, they just drag there heals
Good luck 

 

[jmbfestool]

From a quick search, it would appear that the UK has similar easement laws that the US has. You can research that some more, and because you are in the UK, your search will show more applicable search results than my own.

An easement means that even though that person owns the portion of land, they are still limited in their powers over that portion of the land. For example, for a "utility easement", not only can they not deny access to that land, but they themselves also have limited access to that land. For example, if I read your newest post correctly, they cannot prohibit you from driving on that roadway to gain access to your own property.

P.S. You posted your drawing while I was typing. Can you identify where you think property lines and roadways are located?

Ill colour the lane (road) to show you

 

[jmbfestool]

The light green is their field

The purple/blue colour is our land

the orange is the Lane (road)

[attachimg=#]

 

[jmbfestool]

The farmer will have a wayleave agreement with the farmer to work on there lines on his land. he gets paid a small fee each year for it
as long as the new line is going underground he cant stop them from working on it. he can only say anything if they want to put extra poles in
Sometimes there is no wayleave in that case he cant stop them working on it anyway
I had the same problem with a farmer and a new connection to my house. he wanted 10,000 off me to let them connect the line !!
i never payed anything. its up to the electricity company to sort it out, they just drag there heals
Good luck 

Thats good to know,

The Farmer Son who has said Yes to letting me connect to into his field  (just his mum has the final say shes saying no)  He said that he didnt pay a penny or anything when they did the 3phase underground.

 

 

[cgraham]

Easy solution. Rent the largest,noisiest , smoking generator you can find and put it as close to her house as possible. Turn it on and let it run and tell her this is the only solution unless she lets run the line underground

 

[Rick Christopherson]

That's about what I was expecting. If you are trying to access that 185-amp 3-phase line on the side of the road, it will be covered by a utility easement. That's how your own house got connected to it in the first place. The land owner does not have the right to deny access. Moreover, because it is utility, it is probably also covered by local government. So if your utility company is pretending that they can't access it due to the land owner, then contact your local town hall.

Because the road way is also an easement, you will have to find out whether you have the right to trench across it as opposed to tunneling. (There was a previous posting about this, and at the time he made it, I was actually trying to locate a picture of one of those boring machines. We used to use them when crossing driveways and county roads that we were not permitted to cut into.)

By the way, the only difference between a wayleave and easement is that the easement is permanent and cannot be nullified as the property changes hands. That is why utilities use easements.

 

[jmbfestool]

That's about what I was expecting. If you are trying to access that 185-amp 3-phase line on the side of the road, it will be covered by a utility easement. That's how your own house got connected to it in the first place. The land owner does not have the right to deny access. Moreover, because it is utility, it is probably also covered by local government. So if your utility company is pretending that they can't access it due to the land owner, then contact your local town hall.

Because the road way is also an easement, you will have to find out whether you have the right to trench across it as opposed to tunneling. (There was a previous posting about this, and at the time he made it, I was actually trying to locate a picture of one of those boring machines. We used to use them when crossing driveways and county roads that we were not permitted to cut into.)

By the way, the only difference between a wayleave and easement is that the easement is permanent and cannot be nullified as the property changes hands. That is why utilities use easements.

Thank you very much.

Ill be doing some calling around 2 moro!  

Well my neighbour who will be the only person who will be disturbed by digging across the lane if I was to go into the field directly  wouldnt say anything.   He's sound nice guy!   Not only that!   I have had 4 loads of 30+ Ton Concrete truck come down and my neighbour had some work done and had large heavy loads which has seriously damaged the tarmac and needs repairing.    

My cousin did the tarmac few years ago he didnt do a very good job then again it wasn't  designed to take such heavy loads down a small lane.

Only our bit is tarmac the rest of the lane is just a dirt road lol  

We did get some one to price the entire lane £7000   divided over 7 houses would only be £1000 each  

We got 2 saying YES  1 said wait till summer time the other said why whats the point and the farmer decided to get his own tarmac and do it him self!    

Well he dumped the tarmac left it for half a day then started laying it he drove over with it with his tractor as he was laying it so it has large tractor marks in it! then wanted  few hundred quid from every one!   We refused to pay lol!  

Its crap!  its worse than what it was before!

 

[Davej]

The power company will have right of access to their cables regardless of where they are in the same way that they can come into your house and make sure the meter is in a safe condition , you  cant stop them as they  can get a court order as its their property ,, same goes for the cable on the farmers land . It maybe that the power company is being lazy but theres no way the farmer can stop them .  ALL utility companies have a legal right of access where their utilities are on private land , its the law . Get proper legal advise and remind the electric company they have a right to access . Good luck .  Dave

 

[jmbfestool]

The power company will have right of access to their cables regardless of where they are in the same way that they can come into your house and make sure the meter is in a safe condition , you  cant stop them as they  can get a court order as its their property ,, same goes for the cable on the farmers land . It maybe that the power company is being lazy but theres no way the farmer can stop them .  ALL utility companies have a legal right of access where their utilities are on private land , its the law . Get proper legal advise and remind the electric company they have a right to access . Good luck .  Dave

Well talking to you and other FOG members  (Rick, Piere, Matt..... others ) 

Has helped alot!  You see I was just getting all my info from the power company  and all they kept telling me they can't.   

They said well imagine if it was your garden we couldnt just come and start digging your garden up can we.    I cant see how a field is remotely the same as some ones private garden but still if you came and put everything back the way it was I couldnt see a problem even if it was somes ones garden.

But now talking to you guys I know the power company are just trying to get rid of me!  Should of clicked when he said I would just buy a generator if I was you. 

JMB

 

[pierreblonde]

The farmer will have a wayleave agreement with the farmer to work on there lines on his land. he gets paid a small fee each year for it
as long as the new line is going underground he cant stop them from working on it. he can only say anything if they want to put extra poles in
Sometimes there is no wayleave in that case he cant stop them working on it anyway
I had the same problem with a farmer and a new connection to my house. he wanted 10,000 off me to let them connect the line !!
i never payed anything. its up to the electricity company to sort it out, they just drag there heals
Good luck 

Thats good to know,

The Farmer Son who has said Yes to letting me connect to into his field  (just his mum has the final say shes saying no)  He said that he didnt pay a penny or anything when they did the 3phase underground.

 

We used a guy that specializes in wayleave agreements to sort our connection out in the end as the electric company just could not be arsed
but that was more to move there apparatus off our land aswell as the farmer ,
but he was very good, if you get stuck i can get you his number  

 

[jmbfestool]

The farmer will have a wayleave agreement with the farmer to work on there lines on his land. he gets paid a small fee each year for it
as long as the new line is going underground he cant stop them from working on it. he can only say anything if they want to put extra poles in
Sometimes there is no wayleave in that case he cant stop them working on it anyway
I had the same problem with a farmer and a new connection to my house. he wanted 10,000 off me to let them connect the line !!
i never payed anything. its up to the electricity company to sort it out, they just drag there heals
Good luck 

Thats good to know,

The Farmer Son who has said Yes to letting me connect to into his field  (just his mum has the final say shes saying no)  He said that he didnt pay a penny or anything when they did the 3phase underground.

 

We used a guy that specializes in wayleave agreements to sort our connection out in the end as the electric company just could not be arsed
but that was more to move there apparatus off our land aswell as the farmer ,
but he was very good, if you get stuck i can get you his number  

Thank you thats good to know!  ill get back to you on that one after I have spoken to the power company 2moro.

 

[Rick Christopherson]

You're still going to want to figure out how much power your CNC and shop will need. You'll want to make sure that the new power drop from the utility is sufficient for all of your future needs. Based on your description of possibly having 3 people working at the same time, you would want to predict about 10 to 15 kVA, plus whatever your CNC will require. Add a little bit more if you need electric heat, or electric AC.

Because some of your loads will be single phase and some 3-phase, there will be a slight complexity to determining your maximum needs, but in simple terms, you just add up the worst-case scenario of what could be operating at the same time. Add all of the kw or kVA ratings together.

 

[Davej]

The power company will have right of access to their cables regardless of where they are in the same way that they can come into your house and make sure the meter is in a safe condition , you  cant stop them as they  can get a court order as its their property ,, same goes for the cable on the farmers land . It maybe that the power company is being lazy but theres no way the farmer can stop them .  ALL utility companies have a legal right of access where their utilities are on private land , its the law . Get proper legal advise and remind the electric company they have a right to access . Good luck .  Dave

Well talking to you and other FOG members   (Rick, Piere, Matt..... others ) 

Has helped alot!   You see I was just getting all my info from the power company  and all they kept telling me they can't.   

They said well imagine if it was your garden we couldnt just come and start digging your garden up can we.    I cant see how a field is remotely the same as some ones private garden but still if you came and put everything back the way it was I couldnt see a problem even if it was somes ones garden.

But now talking to you guys I know the power company are just trying to get rid of me!  Should of clicked when he said I would just buy a generator if I was you. 

JMB

Imagine if the gas board where going to put a new feed into your house , do you think you could say ' no  you might damage my flowerbed ' they would laugh at you and say tough s@@t .

 

[jmbfestool]

You're still going to want to figure out how much power your CNC and shop will need. You'll want to make sure that the new power drop from the utility is sufficient for all of your future needs. Based on your description of possibly having 3 people working at the same time, you would want to predict about 10 to 15 kVA, plus whatever your CNC will require. Add a little bit more if you need electric heat, or electric AC.

Because some of your loads will be single phase and some 3-phase, there will be a slight complexity to determining your maximum needs, but in simple terms, you just add up the worst-case scenario of what could be operating at the same time. Add all of the kw or kVA ratings together.

Well this is my spindle Rating on the CNC I assume the motors to move the gantry etc would need to be added to the total?
[attachimg=#]

Vacuum

[attachimg=#]

 

[Rick Christopherson]

That's interesting. It appears that your spindle motor is single-phase, but your vacuum motor is 3-phase. Ideally, you should be able to find a nameplate that specifies what the whole machine requires (although the vacuum motor can still be separate). If you can't, I can still figure it out, but I would need to know what motors are single phase and what are 3-phase.

Your vacuum motor alone requires 11kw (12kVA). The spindle motor is a little more complicated because it is single phase. It consumes 7.5 kw, but in terms of sizing your incoming service, you would have to treat it as though it was 11kw @3-phase. However, in the process, you could ignore 2 other single phase loads. (I know that is complicated, but the limiting factor is actually the amperage drawn on each of the 3 phases, not the total kilowatts.)

Also, how big are the planers, jointers, and tablesaw you are planning to have? Will there be a central dust collection system? Air compressor?

 

[jmbfestool]

That's interesting. It appears that your spindle motor is single-phase, but your vacuum motor is 3-phase. Ideally, you should be able to find a nameplate that specifies what the whole machine requires (although the vacuum motor can still be separate). If you can't, I can still figure it out, but I would need to know what motors are single phase and what are 3-phase.

Your vacuum motor alone requires 11kw (12kVA). The spindle motor is a little more complicated because it is single phase. It consumes 7.5 kw, but in terms of sizing your incoming service, you would have to treat it as though it was 11kw @3-phase. However, in the process, you could ignore 2 other single phase loads. (I know that is complicated, but the limiting factor is actually the amperage drawn on each of the 3 phases, not the total kilowatts.)

Also, how big are the planers, jointers, and tablesaw you are planning to have? Will there be a central dust collection system? Air compressor?

Yeah does get all complicated.
Planers, thicnessers etc I don't really know what I'm getting yet.  It's all about money.

I like all the hammer machinery. Bandsaw, seperate thicknesser and surface planner. Table saw.

So ill be looking at them at first.  Also second hand maybe being told by many people go second hand!

Ill have to uncover the entire machine then to check out what everything is rated on the Cnc.  All have look later.

I noticed the the vacuum pump was made in Germany nice!

Jmb

 

[GarryMartin]

I could be wrong, but looking at your diagrams, I'd presume that an existing wayleave or easement for the power distribution company should be in place. They *have* to have a wayleave for the high voltage, and I doubt that given that they wouldn't have one (or an easement) for the low voltage 3 phase as it's used to supply all the properties along the lane; yours included.

Imagine a failure in your property's connection to the 3 phase line. If their was no wayleave or easement, the power distribution company would have to get permission from the farmer to do work to restore your power. Can't see that being the case.

I don't profess to being an expert in this area; just attempting to apply logic to all the things you have been told and have pointed out in the thread.

Perhaps you should ask the power distribution company to confirm in writing that no existing wayleave or easement is in place that would allow them to provide you with your 3 phase supply? That should be an interesting request...  [wink]

 

[jmbfestool]

I could be wrong, but looking at your diagrams, I'd presume that an existing wayleave or easement for the power distribution company should be in place. They *have* to have a wayleave for the high voltage, and I doubt that given that they wouldn't have one (or an easement) for the low voltage 3 phase as it's used to supply all the properties along the lane; yours included.

Imagine a failure in your property's connection to the 3 phase line. If their was no wayleave or easement, the power distribution company would have to get permission from the farmer to do work to restore your power. Can't see that being the case.

I don't profess to being an expert in this area; just attempting to apply logic to all the things you have been told and have pointed out in the thread.

Perhaps you should ask the power distribution company to confirm in writing that no existing wayleave or easement is in place that would allow them to provide you with your 3 phase supply? That should be an interesting request...  [wink]

Yes ill ask the question.  Already tried to call them 20mins ago.  The woman who deals with this is currently out of office.   

We did mention to them you must have rights to access your power lines and they told us only in emergencies they can't access the cable with out permission from the farmer to just connect new service lines.  Which to me seems redicilous!

 

[jmbfestool]

Spoke to western powers network this morning.

They said:

If western power networks start taking it to court it would cost me £10,000 and if it went to arbitration that would be another £10,000. Then she said leave it with me for a couple of days.

Would I be liable to pay for the cost of them getting the way leave?

I can't see how it's fair that I would have to spend £20k just because the farmer says no and she just sits back and does nothing. If is was the case then they should be paying £20k to try and stop me.  

Also I dont understand why they told me it would have to go to court.

 

[GarryMartin]

PM me your email address and I'll send you a PDF document of the Wayleave Agreement for the Midlands Electricity Board that is in the Deeds pack for my house. I know it won't directly apply, but some of the wording I have to presume will be standard across these things, and I'd have to presume that your supplier already has a wayleave or easement in order to have run the lines originally.

Importantly, my text states "the right hereby granted to include the right to erect and or lay additional apparatus to that originally erected and laid in contradistinction from and in addition to the right already given to replace apparatus". I read that as saying they have the right to make new connections and install new equipment.

And "for any of such works as aforesaid and to break up and excavate so much of the said land as may from time to time be necessary and remove and dispose of any surplus earth PROVIDED that in so doing the Board shall cause as little damage as may be to the said land and shall so far as practicable make good and restore the surface thereof". I read that as they'll put it back to as close to the condition as they found it. I guess you would be responsible for this charge?

Not that it directly helps you, but it might give you some background and you might be able to reference it in conversation with your supplier.

I'd still ask the direct question - i.e. can they provide written confirmation that there are no existing wayleaves or easements in place that would allow this work to proceed?