Precise, portable table saw?

[treesner]

Hey guys,

Looking into getting a portable table saw but all the reviews I read seem to come from more of the contractor/construction types. Was looking for some opinions from the precision side of things.

Since graduating I no longer have acess to a nice shop so i've been doing my furniture and instruments with hand tools and my band saw. However, I think it's time to get a table saw. My shed shop is small (8x10?) often working out side and i'm sort of thinking about building my shop into a trailor for portability / for traveling to friends property. This is why I'm leaning toward a saw that's small and compact.

I would be using it to rip 8/4 walnut, cut datos and use for other joinery needs. Not to worried about cutting plywood, could always use skill saw or build an outfeed table.

I really like the tube frame design of the dewalt and rigid but know a lot of friends that recommend the makita and heard good things of the power of bosch.
I feel like an upgrade of the fence would be a must like these:
Rousseau 2775 $430 http://www.amazon.com/Rousseau-2775-Table-Saw-Stand/dp/B00008RW96
-troy had this and liked it a lot

Rousseau 2600 PortaMax Jr $170
http://www.amazon.com/Rousseau-PortaMax-Table-Fence-System/dp/B0000224RS

Also feel free to recommend what kinds of upgrades I could add to make them more accurate such as:
- new fence or table/fence
- sled
- blade
- ect?

thanks!
-chris

PRECISE PORTABLE TABLE SAW UPDATE// 09-04-15

Taking into consideration suggestions of the forum and my own research I’m leaning away from the dewalt as there isn’t a rousseau available for the 7490 and the 7480 doesn’t accept dados. Started Considering the sawstop, many good reviews but the price does add up quickly. It seems like the best setup for the money would be Bosch 4100 + Rousseau table. What do you think?

Here’s the specs i’ve pulled:

Saw stop job site // $1,399 (with cart)
-25.5” rip size
-3 1/8 depth
-79 lb (without cart) 108lb (with cart)
-15apm (slightly less power than bosch)
*-fence good reviews
-dados: 8”
-table: 43-3/8 x 22-5/8
Upgrades:
-blade: forest wwII ultra thin: $127
-zero clearence insert: make
-miter gauge: incra 1000se: $140
-fence: no rousseau available and stock fence seems good
-dado: Frued SD208 8”: $85
Total: $1751

Bosch 4100 10” // $538 (without cart)
-25” rip size
-99 lbs
-15 amp (known for being most powerful)
-fence doesn’t look good
-dados 8” 3/4”
Upgrades:
-blade: forest wwII ultra thin: $127
-zero clearence insert: make
-miter gauge: incra 1000se: $140
-fence: Rousseau 2776 table: $430
-dado: Frued SD208 8”: $85
Total: $1322

Dewalt 7490 10” // $500 (without cart)
-28” rip size
-90 lbs
-15 amp (not as powerful as bosch)
*-fence has good reviews
-dados (745 does not) 8” up to 13/16
-table: 21-7/8 x 26-38
Upgrades:
-blade: forest wwII ultra thin: $127
-zero clearence insert: make
-miter gauge: incra 1000se: $140
**-fence: don’t see Rousseau available
-dado: Frued SD208 8”: $85
Total: $852

Dewalt 7480 10” // $400 (without wheels)
-24” rip size
*-67 lb
-15 amps at 4800 rpm
*-fence has good reviews
**-dados: mfg and reviews says doesn’t accept but one person said you could put 8” and "on the 745 and 7480 the back nut and the back flange are combined. The result is a slightly smaller assembly and the flange can't be removed, so no 13/16 dados. That said it looks 3/8 dado would be totally fine."
Upgrades:
-blade: forest wwII ultra thin: $127
-zero clearence insert: make
-miter gauge: incra 1000se: $140
-fence: Rousseau 2745 table: $380
-dado: Frued SD208 8”: $85
Total: $1006

Or moving into the bigger belt driven saws but I feel like it’s not the right time in my life as i’ll be moving around a lot and don’t have my own home

Jet jps-10ts 10” // $1214
-30” rip size
*-325 lbs (very heavy)
**-table 27 x 44 (very big)
**-not sure if this is 120 or 220
Upgrades:
*-wouldn’t need fence upgrade
*-maybe wouldn’t need a miter gauge, big enough for a sled
-blade: forest wwII ultra thin: $127
-zero clearence insert: make
-dado: Frued SD208 8”: $85
Total: $1426

 

[jacko9]

I like Bosch products and while I have a large cabinet table saw the Bosch Portable saw looks very interesting.

http://www.boschtools.com/Products/Tools/Pages/BoschProductDetail.aspx?pid=4100-09

I did have a Bosch Gravity Stand that I used with my DeWalt miter saw until I bought the Festool Kapex.  My son now has the Bosch/DeWalt and loves it for it's sturdy portable design.

Jack

 

[grbmds]

I can't say enough good things about the Sawstop jobsite saw. I just got done ripping 8/4 white oak - no problem. The saw is accurate, powerful, with the Sawstop blade cuts very smooth, and is, of course, safe. Dust collection isn't perfect, but then no saw that size has quite the same dust collection as a larger saw. The price is one drawback - high compared to existing Bosch and Dewalt saws of a similar type. Also, an upgrade miter gauge would likely be a good purchase if you plan to do a lot of cross-cutting on it. While I have a larger shop, I can always use more floor space. It folds up easily and I just move it out of the way till I need it again. It actually moves easily without folding it up also if I want to move it out of the way for a short time till I need it again. I just thing it's a great saw. I feel it was a great purchase for me and for the uses I put it to.

 

[NHSP759]

I've got the Dewalt DW745. Can't stack dados too much so I use doubled up blades. The DW7480 can use a stacked dado. I love my Dewalt regardless. Good blade is good cuts. I cut sheet goods with the TA so my DW for everything else. The Bosch looks decent too.

 

[jeh]

I've got the Dewalt DW745. Can't stack dados too much so I use doubled up blades. The DW7480 can use a stacked dado. I love my Dewalt regardless. Good blade is good cuts. I cut sheet goods with the TA so my DW for everything else. The Bosch looks decent too.

Can't give the DW745 enough positives. Great saw and the geared fence is one that should be copied by other manufacturers. They also make a larger.

The portable SawStop is decent, but it's of dubious build quality given the price. I'd hold out for the Bosch that has a similar safety feature to the SawStop. If you don't need to go that big get a DW745. You won't be disappointed.

 

[Kev]

How much precision do you actually need?

At the highly refined end of the precision scale, any portable table saw will ultimately disappoint the most critical user.

You can certainly improve what you get from a typical contractors saw with third party accessories and custom modifications, but you should probably cost the ultimate you will spend down this path. A $500 contractor saw rapidly grows to $1,500 with a couple of nice blades, custom mitre fence, custom rip fence, refinements to adjustability and setup accessories, etc.

 

[nickao]

Precision just means repeatable. I have several bench top and the fences are all  are all repeatable to within their fences specs.

IMHO, The DeWalt 7491 TS is the most accurate and precise Bench type table Saw one can get for under 1500.00. I say under 1500.00 becasue I include my Saw Stop Bench style, all others in this category are well under 1000.00. If you can get over how loud it is this is the saw to get. It's a improvement and upgrade over the 745 . With the proper hose set up it gets great dust collection as well, second to none in this category. The power is top notch and the fence is the best I have used period on a table top:

http://www.amazon.com/DEWALT-DWE7491RS-10-Inch-Jobsite-Capacity/dp/B00F2CGXGG/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1441258323&sr=8-1&keywords=DEWALT+DWE7491RS

 

[Kev]

Precision just means repeatable. I have several bench top and the fences are all  are all repeatable to within their fences specs.

IMHO, The DeWalt 7491 TS is the most accurate and precise Bench type table Saw one can get for under 1500.00. I say under 1500.00 becasue I include my Saw Stop Bench style, all others in this category are well under 1000.00. If you can get over how loud it is this is the saw to get. It's a improvement and upgrade over the 745 . With the proper hose set up it gets great dust collection as well, second to none in this category. The power is top notch and the fence is the best I have used period on a table top:

http://www.amazon.com/DEWALT-DWE7491RS-10-Inch-Jobsite-Capacity/dp/B00F2CGXGG/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1441258323&sr=8-1&keywords=DEWALT+DWE7491RS

No, precision relates to exactness. Repeatability could mean ten things cut all half an inch too narrow!

 

[jimbo51]

In my early science classes, I was taught that precision is a measure of repeatability while accuracy relates to how close a measurement is to a true value.

Has anyone seen any updates on when the Bosch Reaxx saw will be launched?

BTW still no Grex 23 g cordless pinned.

 

[Tayler_mann]

If you want the most accurate and portable Mafels Erika is what you want. However it costs $3,500. From what I  have heard though it is quite the saw. Someone explained it to me like this, "remember how amazed you were the first time you bought a Festool tool (being the domino) and you said why did it take me so long to buy their tools!" That is supposedly the reaction you get when you use the Mafell equipment. Never used one never will because I am not a fan of job site saws I want a real table saw. I have a Bosch and it sits in the corner or had become a great extra table to set my Tracksaw  [big grin]. The fence on my Bosch no matter how many times I adjust it will eventually start clampin down unsquare. And it is always towards the blade which is very very dangerous if you don't pay attention. That's a recipe for kickback and a missing finger.

 

[nickao]

Precision just means repeatable. I have several bench top and the fences are all  are all repeatable to within their fences specs.

IMHO, The DeWalt 7491 TS is the most accurate and precise Bench type table Saw one can get for under 1500.00. I say under 1500.00 becasue I include my Saw Stop Bench style, all others in this category are well under 1000.00. If you can get over how loud it is this is the saw to get. It's a improvement and upgrade over the 745 . With the proper hose set up it gets great dust collection as well, second to none in this category. The power is top notch and the fence is the best I have used period on a table top:

http://www.amazon.com/DEWALT-DWE7491RS-10-Inch-Jobsite-Capacity/dp/B00F2CGXGG/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1441258323&sr=8-1&keywords=DEWALT+DWE7491RS

No, precision relates to exactness. Repeatability could mean ten things cut all half an inch too narrow!

I am so sorry but in the nicest way you have a misunderstanding of the terms. It's understandable as many people have a feel for precision and accuracy, but don't understand how they relate to each other, they are different. It's tough at first to grasp that something can be accurate or precise while not being the other. Accuracy is related to correctness, Precision relates to getting that exactness over and over again.

Accuracy - is the proximity of measurement results to the true value;  This seems to be what you incorrectly thought precision is. You can be very precise but inaccurate and this is what you are talking about in your example.

Precision, the repeatability, or reproducibility of the measurement

There is really no argument and there is no judgment or play in what these terms mean, they are simple definitions.

One of the thousands of example one can get from any college course online:

Accuracy and Precision:

Accuracy refers to the closeness of a measured value to a standard or known value. For example, if in lab you obtain a weight measurement of 3.2 kg for a given substance, but the actual or known weight is 10 kg, then your measurement is not accurate. In this case, your measurement is not close to the known value.

Precision refers to the closeness of TWO OR MORE measurements(the repeatably) to each other . Using the example above, if you weigh a given substance five times, and get 3.2 kg each time, then your measurement is very precise. Precision is independent of accuracy. You can be very precise but inaccurate, as described above. You can also be accurate but imprecise.

For example, if on average, your measurements for a given substance are close to the known value, but the measurements are far from each other, then you have accuracy without precision.

 

[Holmz]

If you want the most accurate and portable Mafels Erika is what you want. However it costs $3,500. From what I  have heard though it is quite the saw. Someone explained it to me like this, "remember how amazed you were the first time you bought a Festool tool (being the domino) and you said why did it take me so long to buy their tools!" That is supposedly the reaction you get when you use the Mafell equipment. Never used one never will because I am not a fan of job site saws I want a real table saw. I have a Bosch and it sits in the corner or had become a great extra table to set my Tracksaw  [big grin]. The fence on my Bosch no matter how many times I adjust it will eventually start clampin down unsquare. And it is always towards the blade which is very very dangerous if you don't pay attention. That's a recipe for kickback and a missing finger.

I have used some of Mafell's other tools, and I have not been disappointed. In fact the tools have been beyond reproach.

On the bright side an Erika may obviate the need for a Kapex, and one does not need an after market fence.

 

[Kev]

Precision just means repeatable. I have several bench top and the fences are all  are all repeatable to within their fences specs.

IMHO, The DeWalt 7491 TS is the most accurate and precise Bench type table Saw one can get for under 1500.00. I say under 1500.00 becasue I include my Saw Stop Bench style, all others in this category are well under 1000.00. If you can get over how loud it is this is the saw to get. It's a improvement and upgrade over the 745 . With the proper hose set up it gets great dust collection as well, second to none in this category. The power is top notch and the fence is the best I have used period on a table top:

http://www.amazon.com/DEWALT-DWE7491RS-10-Inch-Jobsite-Capacity/dp/B00F2CGXGG/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1441258323&sr=8-1&keywords=DEWALT+DWE7491RS

No, precision relates to exactness. Repeatability could mean ten things cut all half an inch too narrow!

I am so sorry but in the nicest way you have a misunderstanding of the terms. It's understandable as many people have a feel for precision and accuracy, but don't understand how they relate to each other, they are different. It's tough at first to grasp that something can be accurate or precise while not being the other. Accuracy is related to correctness, Precision relates to getting that exactness over and over again.

Accuracy - is the proximity of measurement results to the true value;  This seems to be what you incorrectly thought precision is. You can be very precise but inaccurate and this is what you are talking about in your example.

Precision, the repeatability, or reproducibility of the measurement

There is really no argument and there is no judgment or play in what these terms mean, they are simple definitions.

One of the thousands of example one can get from any college course online:

Accuracy and Precision:

Accuracy refers to the closeness of a measured value to a standard or known value. For example, if in lab you obtain a weight measurement of 3.2 kg for a given substance, but the actual or known weight is 10 kg, then your measurement is not accurate. In this case, your measurement is not close to the known value.

Precision refers to the closeness of TWO OR MORE measurements(the repeatably) to each other . Using the example above, if you weigh a given substance five times, and get 3.2 kg each time, then your measurement is very precise. Precision is independent of accuracy. You can be very precise but inaccurate, as described above. You can also be accurate but imprecise.

For example, if on average, your measurements for a given substance are close to the known value, but the measurements are far from each other, then you have accuracy without precision.

[member=3373]Dovetail65[/member]

All very interesting.

... and here's Merriam Websters version of precision:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/precision

Full Definition of PRECISION

1
:  the quality or state of being precise :  exactness
2
a :  the degree of refinement with which an operation is performed or a measurement stated — compare accuracy 2b
b :  the accuracy (as in binary or decimal places) with which a number can be represented usually expressed in terms of the number of computer words available for representation

So I'm sorry too, but in the nicest way - I really don't appreciate the attitude in your response.

You can also argue this till the cows come home, but precision does relate to exactness, not just repeatability as you previously stated. The ambiguity of your first statement can easily mislead people.

To be clear, I'm talking about mathematical precision here .. such as the ability to set a rip fence 11.5mm from the cutting blade based on the precision of the tool's calibration and get a piece of timber 11.5mm wide .. the aim is NOT to set the fence at 11.5mm and cut twenty 9.8mm wide pieces of timber (highly repeatable, but precisely wrong).

If you want to search for alternative explanations of the term, maybe some university mathematics papers rather than the likes of possibly college chemistry for a bit of variety .. for me, the dictionary will still probably be the first stop. Remember too that different fields of study do interpret terms differently.

 

[rizzoa13]

I have an Erika 85 and it is outrageously useful. Like really really rediculously good looking (someone should get that). I imported it from Germany and all said with shipping and duties it came out to $3500 with the router table, sliding table and MFA fence.

SO, if money is no object get an Erika. Not everyone needs something that expensive, mine will make me money and increase my productivity and quality so that's how I sleep at night thinking of the cost.

 

[Tayler_mann]

Also everyone needs to remember we are talking about table saws not just what accuracy and precision are defined as. We need to think of key factors of what makes a table saw accurate and precise. One thing being the fence, does it clamp in square? Is the fence square itself? What type of motor does it have and how does it react to a load? How stable is the blade or does it have a slight wobble? Does the saw have accurate releasable stops at 90 degrees and so on? What's the stability of the stand if it comes with one? How large is the table?

Last but not least the most important part of an accurate table saw.....the user.

So back to the OPs question in my opinion if you take the portable job site saws and stand them up to these questions they all come in mediocre. THere is a Powermatic and jet job site saw hat are a little larger than normal but much higher quality. I just avoid CPO altogether for their customer service.

 

[jacko9]

Precision just means repeatable. I have several bench top and the fences are all  are all repeatable to within their fences specs.

IMHO, The DeWalt 7491 TS is the most accurate and precise Bench type table Saw one can get for under 1500.00. I say under 1500.00 becasue I include my Saw Stop Bench style, all others in this category are well under 1000.00. If you can get over how loud it is this is the saw to get. It's a improvement and upgrade over the 745 . With the proper hose set up it gets great dust collection as well, second to none in this category. The power is top notch and the fence is the best I have used period on a table top:

http://www.amazon.com/DEWALT-DWE7491RS-10-Inch-Jobsite-Capacity/dp/B00F2CGXGG/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1441258323&sr=8-1&keywords=DEWALT+DWE7491RS

Wow, Currently on sale at Amazon for $579 which includes the rolling cart/stand is a very nice deal.

Jack

 

[Kev]

I have an Erika 85 and it is outrageously useful. Like really really rediculously good looking (someone should get that). I imported it from Germany and all said with shipping and duties it came out to $3500 with the router table, sliding table and MFA fence.

SO, if money is no object get an Erika. Not everyone needs something that expensive, mine will make me money and increase my productivity and quality so that's how I sleep at night thinking of the cost.

You can't make statements like that without pictures [wink] [big grin]

 

[Brent Taylor]

I had good results with Makita's saws and the Ridgid's saw. The Rousseau tables were a great addition to the Makitas,  but I don't know if they have a model for the current saw. I have been using a Ridgid  for  a number of years with good results.

 

[mastercabman]

I would suggest the Bosch table saw on the gravity rise stand
The fence is good and has plenty of power
I used a dewalt table saw today and I always feel that the saw is under power. Bogs down pretty hard
Also I was never impressed with the fence system they use on their saw
I used to own the small dewalt and sold it
You could spend over $1500 on a saw but for job site it's not worth it

 

[treesner]

Which Dewalt were you using? I think I read the largest one is more powerful than the Bosch