Pricing on Festool USA website taken down?

[Daniel_n]

I think it started when Festool became more popular in Canada. Because of the exchange rate and other  border crossing fees, the Canadian pricing has to be higher then the one in the states. For example: a Kapex will sell for $1300 in the USA, in Canada we have to peel out $1800. That is a HUGE difference! Therefore, many potential clients will cross the border and buy in the states. I don't blame them!
So, to protect their Canadian retailers they had to hide the pricing..... From a business point of view I totally understand... from a consumer point of view I don't....

If you are right, this is really sad. But even though I don't think it's a good idea, even from a business point, I totally understand why some companies might think it is a good idea.

What really confuses me is why some consumers (I expect that all forum participants with their name in green are dealers or festool employees (and that they have to defend the "geolocation feature" is not to hard to understand - that would be something that I would demand from my employees as well)) on this forum are defending this feature - as there really aren't any benefit with the geological feature to any consumer, anywhere (well, except the ones that gets confused regarding what festool site they are one, the price in USD and so in - but I think they are quite few actually).

 

[Rob Z]

Why the fuss?

Do like I do: be steady and wait for someone to sell a good condition Festool for half price or better.

I don't have a problem with Festool pricing because I won't pay it.... often. I did pay retail for my TS55 and my ETS150/5 and I have no complaints.

However I prefer the deals I got on my: MFT1080($150), a Domino with the DS systainer and 4 bits and D's($600), the CT22 ($200). an OF1000 with some nice Amana bits ($200), even a brand new ETS125 ($95). 

YOU decide what you want to pay, not Festool. They just decide what they want to charge.

I'm sorry if the above sounds like a gloat, it's not my intention. I'm just saying that there are other quality tools one can own in the meantime (Bosch, Metabo, Makita, a few other gems) until you find the price you want on the tool you want.

OTOH, it is not often I buy new. Since I'm younger than 40, it can be proved by my 1930s, '40s, '60s and '80s Powermatics and Delta/Rockwells.

I'm still saving up for some Festools. I'd like a Kapex for about $600, a Rotex150 for about $300, and an OF1400 with all the accessories for about $300 as well.

Will it happen soon? Maybe not. Will it happen? Hide and watch.

Hi Clev, 

I monitor Craigslist in my area quite regularly, and what I see for sale from Festool is anything but a bargain.  It's not uncommon that I see ads listing a Festool tool or MFT for MORE than it cost new.  This is, of course, ridiculous, and there is now way anyone should pay nearly full price for a tool with an unknown history and no dealer support.

 

[Brice Burrell]

Daniel, there is a possibility of confusion with the pricing. Here's a screen shot of the Festool USA site, notice the price is only marked with the dollar sign ($), no mention that it is USD. While there is a small American flag in the upper right corner (not seen in the photo below) there isn't any other obvious way to tell you're on the Festool USA site without looking at the web address.
[attachthumb=#]

I understand the big picture dislike of this geolocation technology, I do think it's doing some good in this case. The only thing you guys aren't seeing is the price and that is readily available on the web. If Festool USA were blocking access completely that would be different. 

 

[Daniel_n]

Daniel, there is a possibility of confusion with the pricing. Here's a screen shot of the Festool USA site, notice the price is only marked with the dollar sign ($), no mention that it is USD. While there is a small American flag in the upper right corner (not seen in the photo below) there isn't any other obvious way to tell you're on the Festool USA site without looking at the web address.
[attachthumb=#]

I understand the big picture dislike of this geolocation technology, I do think it's doing some good in this case. The only thing you guys aren't seeing is the price and that is readily available on the web. If Festool USA were blocking access completely that would be different.   

Yeah, I can understand that there is a risk that you might confuse the $ for being something else than USD. I guess you think there is a bigger risk for confusion than I do. In fact, I believe (due to the reasons already mentioned) that the risk is really low. But I might of course be wrong about this.

 

[clev1066]

Craig, I frequent owwm quite a bit.

I'm currently rebuilding a 1962 PM143. I've just about got her there. I still need to get some rubber tires, thrust bearings, and belts. I'll try to have her done within the next few weeks. I'm sure not looking forward to crowning those tires. When I get finished; I'll be sure to post pics over there. I lost the before pics, but it was a mess.

Maybe I'll see you over there.

Brian

 

[clev1066]

Rob, I generally search Google for: Festool Craigslist. Then narrow the search to the past week or past 24 hours. When I find a good deal; I check to see what friends or family I have in the area. I got lucky in the regard that a lot of my college buddies headed out in all directions; but it sure makes getting us all together a very infrequent affair. I've actually only found one good deal that was local to Dallas, and that was the CT and router.

Also, I've been very patient. In general, I have all the tooling that I need. When I find a good deal on Festool, I generally replace whatever the equivelant is that I already own. Except routers. I made the mistake of selling one; and I think I'll just keep the ones I have, even after I find and OF1400. I'd rather change routers than change bits most of the time.

 

[score0matic]

What really confuses me is why some consumers (I expect that all forum participants with their name in green are dealers or festool employees (and that they have to defend the "geolocation feature" is not to hard to understand - that would be something that I would demand from my employees as well)) on this forum are defending this feature - as there really aren't any benefit with the geological feature to any consumer, anywhere (well, except the ones that gets confused regarding what festool site they are one, the price in USD and so in - but I think they are quite few actually).

Daniel
You are unaware of this but it is common knowledge on www.talkfestool.com  and here with the old timers  that Rick is contracted with Festool USA to write supplemental manuals, as well as other projects, so he does have Commercial ties to Festool USA.  

Though he if filling the role of their "apologist " aggressively    that is more about his posting style (likes a  : lively : discussion)  than his being Festool's  Lacky.  What I am saying is his posts are his own and I am informing you of his work so you don't jump to another conclusion  when you find  it out later.

Also with confusion to price in the US/Canada  That is a Hobby (providing it benefits the hobbyist ;D)

Craig

 

[Rob Z]

Clev,

One Craigslist ad that made me chuckle recently was a list of Festools with the "discounted" prices.  A closer analysis revealed that the various prices all added up to combo package savings, so the seller wasn't out anything except his original sales tax (assuming he bought here in VA).

Another one was for an MFT, with no top, selling for about $50 more than a new MFT with a top.  The replacement top is something like $100, so the used table would be ~$150 more than a new table.  Hilarious.

 

[Wim]

To my opinion, the screening off of US prices for non-US visitors is ridiculous. If Festool USA thinks that people may have problems with the correct currency, use the international form for currency. USD for US dollars, EUR for Euro's and so on.
In my special case it is double ridiculous. I live in Holland and go to the USA for periods of 3 months. I'm trying to stay permanently in the USA, so I try to get rid of my "Dutch" tools and buy new Festools in the USA. Now I have to wait until I'm in the US again to see the prices and decide what to buy next. But I still can check prices from the local Woodcraft store and the website of Bob Marino. And while to my knowledge Festool USA is dictating the prices for the dealers, I can see the prices anyway and they should be the same for all. So what is Festool USA gaining?

 

[justinmcf]

this really has turned into a great debate. festool wanted customer feedback and here it is.
whether it is positive or negative feedback, does not really matter. we are all trying to achieve the same goal. making festool a better product.

i can think of no other tool manufacturer whose tools i use on a daily basis, that i feel more passionate about.
i love working with wood and i love using my festool tools to earn a living. there is no way that i would be sitting in front of my computer, reading and writing about a makita forum or a dewalt forum.

i see festool as an international product and i am hesitant to use the phrase, you in the U.S. or you in Europe. or me in Australia.

every time i travel to the U.S. and Europe i have purchased festool products.
the last time i took AU$1000  worth of festools into Australia  was 2 months ago. i dont pay any taxes of any kind as long as the total value does not exceed AU$1000. i travel overseas 3 times every year and have the same festool shopping habit.

i have also researched travelling from brisbane to west coast U.S. which is the cheapest way for me to get to the U.S. and spend a weekend shopping for festool. believe it or not, the plane fares would have been free after buying all the festool accessories i needed. but i could not find the time to do it. so i just wait for my vacations and purchase then.

i therefore see myself as an international buyer. i am happy to give my hard earned dollars to another country.
as long as i am getting a great deal, i really dont care where my money ends up.

i have used the festoolusa.com site for quite some time now. the problem for me is simple. travelling overseas in the past, i would check the website, print out what i needed and purchase overseas. now i cannot do that through the festoolusa.com website. i can do it elsewhere, as has been pointed out already. i just get the feeling festoolusa is trying to hide something. and for me this is disappointing as i really do respect the company as a whole.

with regards to the U.S. division of festool. they have done a fantastic job and i only wish we had something similar, here in Australia.
TTS has a total workforce of 34 employees in Australia and i have never seen or heard any correspondence from them on local or international forums.

i would sincerely like to hear from the managing director of TTS Australia, Blair Brydon. but i wont hold my breath.

this forum is an outlet for us all, and i consider it an international forum. i cannot vent my anger/complaints elsewhere, if i could, i would.

i would like to think that this great debate eventually finds it way to the powers that be, and in the future i can concentrate on using the tools rather than complaining about the company.

regards, justin.

 

[Rob Z]

Hi Justin, 

If someone ships a tool to you from the US to Australia, do you have to pay customs duty or any other taxes?

 

[justinmcf]

hi rob, i get tools shipped from U.S. and Europe all the time, i have relations living in the U.S., Ireland and the U.K.
as long as the goods are valued under AU$1000, you dont pay any taxes at all.

regards, justin.

 

[Rob Z]

Justin,  that sounds lke a good work-around.  I tried sending a few small things to some buddies in Canada (a company t-shirt and a few other minor things), and they said their customs duty inspectors are nuts about slapping a duty on everything, no matter how trivial.  I don't know if they had to pay duty on the gifts I sent to them.

 

[EcoFurniture]

That's correct. Canadian customs totally rip us off! I just got 4 boxes of bench cookies from Rockler (total was about $40). Customs charged me another $40 just in fees! Insane if you ask me.
Now think about bringing in big shipments of power tools to Canada....

 

[Les]

I have no idea why Festool USA has taken down their prices for potential buyers outside of the US. If you want to know the price, just google Festool and you'll mind many sites with prices. Find one and go there for pricing.

This has become way too personal.

 

[Mike B]

[Ok, so you think it doesn't seem like a hot idea, but the only people complaining about it are not Festool USA customers...
Name one other Festool division that supports a user forum like FOG? Name one other division...
Instead of praising the revolutionary changes that Christian and Festool USA have added to the Festool family, you international users are complaining that you are not getting more....
Don't lambaste Christian and the Festool USA team for your frustrations in your own country....

Rick, you really seem to be taking this personally on behalf of your friends at Festool. This is a shame, I'm sure they can speak for themselves if they feel the need. Your post however causes me some concern...

You're accusing those who don't like the concept of geolocation of "lambasting" Festool USA for everything they've accomplished? Ridiculous. Negative opinion in one area does not constitute wholesale condemnation.
You're suggesting that we need to promise to buy some Festool gear from the USA to be allowed to see the prices? Ridiculous. Who are you to decide the purchasing intent of anyone who has access to the internet, passport and a credit card?
You're accusing overseas ?users? of asking for "more" when all they want is the same information as US customers have (for whatever purpose)? Ridiculous. I wouldn't see this as "ironic" either... what exactly is ironic about the people being excluded by geolocation making the complaints?
You?re suggesting that by virtue of the good work that Festool USA (and by extension yourself) have done for both the brand and its customers that it should be exempt from criticism? Sorry, no. I'm sure you realise that not how these things work. I feel that your comments, particularly with respects to Festool USA?s contributions when compared to other Festool divisions is displaying an unpleasant level of hubris. Remind me again where these tools are actually designed and made again?

Finally, by way of some sort of olive branch, I?d like to say that your own work has been of great help to me and no doubt every Festool owner that has come across your work but I would not have found it without this forum and its members from around the world. It seems obvious that most Festool fans are a curious lot and we enjoy knowing as much about our favourite tools as we can. Knowledge is knowledge and if users deem it of interest ? regardless of location - then who is anyone to deny it? The FOG (and TF) is an international forum, the information discussed is subject to the same global scrutiny. So if Festool USA have decided to limit that little bit of information that someone outside of the US finds of interest then it sounds like a perfectly valid topic of discussion on a Festool-related forum to me.

 

[clev1066]

Alright folks. This seems to be getting a little too personal and the level of which people are opposed or upset doesn't seem appropriate.

In the USA, most tool manufacturers don't list prices at all. I just checked DeWalt, Bosch, and Makita. They will give you an option to enter a geographic area and then give the choice to select retailers. At that point, it is up to the buyer to decide on the vendor and investigate pricing from there. This is basically all I've ever known; find the product you want then find the best price one can. I promise that when I bought my Makita LS1013FL miter saw at Home Depot last week for $199 that it wasn't published on the Makita site.

I see where it is somewhat different with Festool's fixed prices; but that isn't always true. I mentioned above about getting super-good deals on an ETS-125 and an MFT1080. Guess what; I bought both of those new from authorized retailers for very significant savings. The MFT was a closeout; but discounted to $150? How about the ETS-125 for $92.50 from an authorized dealer? Heck, I bought two so I could sell one on ebay, and I wish I had bought ten (then I could afford the OF1400 and a Rotex150 for basically free).

This whole thread is starting to sound like a pissing match between boys who can't reach the toilet. If that is the case; squat and it won't be a problem. If not; do your own pricing research and pay what you feel comfortible paying.

 

[colinw]

There is a pretty simple way around geolocation,  If you wish to browse Festool USA from Europe use a freely available US proxy site, when you then access the Festool USA site it will fool it to think you are in the USA.  Personally IMHO it makes sound business sense to direct a browser to the country of origin, after all if you wish to buy a tool from Festool I should imagine 99 percent of the time you will buy it from the same country you live in. In reality you can never please everyone, so you try to please the largest group you can.

Colin.

 

[HowardH]

That's correct. Canadian customs totally rip us off! I just got 4 boxes of bench cookies from Rockler (total was about $40). Customs charged me another $40 just in fees! Insane if you ask me.

It must only go one way because I have bought a number of items from Lee Valley and they were shipped to me in the U.S. with no duties or tariffs of any sort. 

 

[walnutwally]

Hi, this is my first post. Not wishing to upset anyone and I far as I'm concerned, Festool can do as they wish on their websites.
For all international visitors like myself, there are many other websites in the USA that will provide a fairly accurate price on Festool gear.
One does not need the Festo site for prices. That goes for dealers in other countries as well.
If you need a list of these sites, just let me know.