Protool to be absorbed by Festool?

[skids]

A proper CMS saw module would be a good start (forgot the docking motion, just quality height, angle and maybe scribing ... one unit that could take different blade sizes) - sunset the PRECISIO CS50 and CS70 and centre everything around an advanced CMS that supported all of the table applicable Festool tools round the globe!

Just while I'm going on about CMS - that CMS module storage frame is a joke - they need something that's mobile with a Systainer approach.

or how about a Sys5 thicknesser ... I'd love that!

All speculation aside, I do believe Festool should have a rolling consulting role for FOG members proving to be innovative - working in Germany for 6 weeks with the R&D team on blue sky products.

Timtool on the next generation MFT for example ...

.. and I'd certainly vote for Seth going off to Tanos for a product direction tune-up

I'd even send JMB in there - but probably lock him in the QA and product testing lab  [big grin]

+1 to that!

If Festool doesn't release the TS module for CMS in NA (I know all about the UL fight) I am probably going to have my local machine shop make one for me and put together a fence package on my own. 1600 is hard to swallow for the CMS table set if all its going to do for me is be a portable router table - modules for the TS and Trion jig saw are a must to make the package worth it.

A lunchbox surface planer would be a good one too...

Personally I would like to see accessory packages like the Centrotec installer kit released in NA in SUFFICIENT QUANTITIES again, and more availability of custom inserts for systainers.

I totally agree that Festool would only benefit from taking innovative and motivated members of the FOG community into the R&D process... esp. if those members were from different parts of the world so that they can speak to the differences in woodworking globally. Things that are commonly done in NA may not be as common in the UK and not at all in OZ etc.

-Ian

Why not just buy one from overseas? Let the lawyers squabble while we enjoy a table saw that make sense and doesn't take up my entire workshop.  [wink]

 

[Connollyir]

A proper CMS saw module would be a good start (forgot the docking motion, just quality height, angle and maybe scribing ... one unit that could take different blade sizes) - sunset the PRECISIO CS50 and CS70 and centre everything around an advanced CMS that supported all of the table applicable Festool tools round the globe!

Just while I'm going on about CMS - that CMS module storage frame is a joke - they need something that's mobile with a Systainer approach.

or how about a Sys5 thicknesser ... I'd love that!

All speculation aside, I do believe Festool should have a rolling consulting role for FOG members proving to be innovative - working in Germany for 6 weeks with the R&D team on blue sky products.

Timtool on the next generation MFT for example ...

.. and I'd certainly vote for Seth going off to Tanos for a product direction tune-up

I'd even send JMB in there - but probably lock him in the QA and product testing lab  [big grin]

+1 to that!

If Festool doesn't release the TS module for CMS in NA (I know all about the UL fight) I am probably going to have my local machine shop make one for me and put together a fence package on my own. 1600 is hard to swallow for the CMS table set if all its going to do for me is be a portable router table - modules for the TS and Trion jig saw are a must to make the package worth it.

A lunchbox surface planer would be a good one too...

Personally I would like to see accessory packages like the Centrotec installer kit released in NA in SUFFICIENT QUANTITIES again, and more availability of custom inserts for systainers.

I totally agree that Festool would only benefit from taking innovative and motivated members of the FOG community into the R&D process... esp. if those members were from different parts of the world so that they can speak to the differences in woodworking globally. Things that are commonly done in NA may not be as common in the UK and not at all in OZ etc.

-Ian

Why not just buy one from overseas? Let the lawyers squabble while we enjoy a table saw that make sense and doesn't take up my entire workshop.  [wink]

Skids,

most places I have looked at will only ship in the Eurozone, UK, or AU due to the size and weight of the items they sell. I will admit that I haven't really jumped into this full-bore yet, just doing some research at this point and will probably run off that cliff this winter.

-Ian

 

[Rick Christopherson]

I'm kind of confused what this rumor is supposed to be about. I don't recall exactly what the relationship is, but I am pretty sure that Protool is already a division of Festool (or technically, TTS Tooltechnic Systems AG & Co. KG). I think they might even be in the same building.

 

[jonny round boy]

I'm kind of confused what this rumor is supposed to be about. I don't recall exactly what the relationship is, but I am pretty sure that Protool is already a division of Festool (or technically, TTS Tooltechnic Systems AG & Co. KG). I think they might even be in the same building.

Rick,

Yes, Protool and Festool are both part of TTS, but the rumour is that the protool name would be no more, and the existing protool line would be absorbed into the Festool line, and badged as Festool.

 

[skids]

I'm kind of confused what this rumor is supposed to be about. I don't recall exactly what the relationship is, but I am pretty sure that Protool is already a division of Festool (or technically, TTS Tooltechnic Systems AG & Co. KG). I think they might even be in the same building.

Rick,

Yes, Protool and Festool are both part of TTS, but the rumour is that the protool name would be no more, and the existing protool line would be absorbed into the Festool line, and badged as Festool.

Not sure how I feel about that. I guess it's good, but the Festool name is sacred to me. [wink] I hope it erode the brand in an attempt to increase customer base etc. Festool has a neat thing going here in the US, not mainstream and i like that alot.

Also, am I missing something about Protool? There product range seems pretty limited. What do they make that so important to the Festool owner?

 

[Davej]

At the present protool is only 240v  and is considered to be more 'trade' orientated in europe . It will not erode the festool ' brand' it will enhance it as all that will happen is the amalgamating of  what is in reality festools ' heavy duty' range into the green family of products . You can get a protool cordless hammer drill but not a festool , so you will will end up with more choice, or possibly some festool and protool products being ' dropped' where there is too close a similarity to make it viable. Maybe or maybe not , after all at the moment its all just ifs and maybe's

 

[Alan m]

protool have quiet a few tools that we would want as festool owners.
the sword rail chain saw
rail mini grinder
large skill saws
angle grinders
corded drills
drywall autofeed drills

 

[Brice Burrell]

At the present protool is only 240v  and is considered to be more 'trade' orientated in europe . It will not erode the festool ' brand' it will enhance it as all that will happen is the amalgamating of  what is in reality festools ' heavy duty' range into the green family of products . You can get a protool cordless hammer drill but not a festool , so you will will end up with more choice, or possibly some festool and protool products being ' dropped' where there is too close a similarity to make it viable. Maybe or maybe not , after all at the moment its all just ifs and maybe's

I think you've summed it up pretty well.  The Protool brand is more geared towards products closer to tools that we might expect from Hilti here in the US.  The head of TTS is from Hilti so he understands the full potential of the US tool market.  So I wouldn't be surprised if this rumor is true.  I think you should start hassling Shane now about when you'll see the new rebadged Protools here in the States [blink]  Okay, I'm kidding, maybe it's a little too soon, we'll wait a bit longer to see if the Protools does get folded in.  Then, it's full court pressure on Shane. [tongue]     

 

[Kev]

I see very little overlap in the Protool / Festool product ranges ... small circular saw, jigsaw, the odd cordless drill and the vac's ... but the majority of the stuff is uniquely Protool.

All of the concrete grinding / renovating stuff and the angle grinders are quite nice - but I don't believe there's the same margin of differentiation between Protool and "other" v's Festool and "other", so the move could be a branding error in some ways. Let's face it, the guy that grinds a concrete floor flat after removing your tiles doesn't have the same fastidious aura as the guy painstakingly cutting dovetails for you cabinet drawers!

I also believe Protool is made by a lower cost labour force (still European though).

I've seen a lot of very large companies screw up their brand image trying to weave it into a cost saving corporate strategy - it can be quite dumb!

Would as many people buy an Aston Martin Vanquish if it was called a Ford Vanquish? I know I'm talking in a different league - just making the point! A rebadged Focus with Aston Martin would sell for a little while, but ultimately it would damage the brand and the flagship product would suffer image degradation. It's a different scale, but this sort of thing needs to be considered.

Rather that merge the product lines, it would probably be better to leverage Festool but sub brad the range (maybe Festool Industrial - in a way that sets product expectation ... a Protool/Festool angle grinder isn't going to revolutionise your work).

Honestly I don't know this stuff all that well - but I do hear alarm bells [eek] and would like to know the underlying strategy.

 

[skids]

I see very little overlap in the Protool / Festool product ranges ... small circular saw, jigsaw, the odd cordless drill and the vac's ... but the majority of the stuff is uniquely Protool.

All of the concrete grinding / renovating stuff and the angle grinders are quite nice - but I don't believe there's the same margin of differentiation between Protool and "other" v's Festool and "other", so the move could be a branding error in some ways. Let's face it, the guy that grinds a concrete floor flat after removing your tiles doesn't have the same fastidious aura as the guy painstakingly cutting dovetails for you cabinet drawers!

I also believe Protool is made by a lower cost labour force (still European though).

I've seen a lot of very large companies screw up their brand image trying to weave it into a cost saving corporate strategy - it can be quite dumb!

Would as many people buy an Aston Martin Vanquish if it was called a Ford Vanquish? I know I'm talking in a different league - just making the point! A rebadged Focus with Aston Martin would sell for a little while, but ultimately it would damage the brand and the flagship product would suffer image degradation. It's a different scale, but this sort of thing needs to be considered.

Rather that merge the product lines, it would probably be better to leverage Festool but sub brad the range (maybe Festool Industrial - in a way that sets product expectation ... a Protool/Festool angle grinder isn't going to revolutionise your work).

Honestly I don't know this stuff all that well - but I do hear alarm bells [eek] and would like to know the underlying strategy.

I am 100% with you on this one. Totally agree. My preference is to keep these two delineated. No line extension.

Festool is Festool, Protool is Protool, or like you said Festool industrial could create the right image. I think these tools appeal to very different audiences so you can't just slap Festool labels on Pro Tools and call it a day, it's not that simple.

 

[jonathan-m]

It seems to me Festool has been building is a VERY strong brand image. Maybe even more so in the States than Europe.
Many over the Atlantic seem to believe it's the end all, be all brand of tools. Well guys, it's not. It's just a tool company that makes many of the better ones out there. And a company that has a very large marketing budget [eek] There also seems to be some mythical belief by many that something has to be made in Germany to be of great quality.

Protool is in no way or fashion less than Festool.  They're pretty much the same. The tools might even be designed to be a bit more resistant to wear and tear than Festool. Protools just have different colours. When pull comes to shove, once these tools come out in the States with the green knobs and the Festool name on it, people will again say, they're the best tools they've ever seen and that they've introduced a new industry standard.
Nobody, but people that follow the industry closely, will know they used to be called Protool...

If anything, it will bring Festool into a couple of new market segments and bring it closer to the tool ranges of other brands. And with the brand image Festool has in the States, it'll be a big win for them.

 

[skids]

It seems to me Festool has been building is a VERY strong brand image. Maybe even more so in the States than Europe.
Many over the Atlantic seem to believe it's the end all, be all brand of tools. Well guys, it's not. It's just a tool company that makes many of the better ones out there. And a company that has a very large marketing budget [eek] There also seems to be some mythical belief by many that something has to be made in Germany to be of great quality.

Protool is in no way or fashion less than Festool.  They're pretty much the same. The tools might even be designed to be a bit more resistant to wear and tear than Festool. Protools just have different colours. When point comes to shove, once these tools come out in the States with the green knobs and the Festool name on it, people will again say, they're the best tools they've ever seen and that they've introduced a new industry standard.
Nobody, but people that follow the industry closely, will know they used to be called Protool...

If anything, it will bring Festool into a couple of new market segments and bring it closer to the tool ranges of other brands. And with the brand image Festool has in the States, it'll be a big win for them.

And if it ends up in Home Depot I am selling all my tools.

 

[Brice Burrell]

It seems to me Festool has been building is a VERY strong brand image. Maybe even more so in the States than Europe.
Many over the Atlantic seem to believe it's the end all, be all brand of tools. Well guys, it's not. It's just a tool company that makes many of the better ones out there. And a company that has a very large marketing budget [eek] There also seems to be some mythical belief by many that something has to be made in Germany to be of great quality.

Protool is in no way or fashion less than Festool.  They're pretty much the same. The tools might even be designed to be a bit more resistant to wear and tear than Festool. Protools just have different colours. When point comes to shove, once these tools come out in the States with the green knobs and the Festool name on it, people will again say, they're the best tools they've ever seen and that they've introduced a new industry standard.
Nobody, but people that follow the industry closely, will know they used to be called Protool...

If anything, it will bring Festool into a couple of new market segments and bring it closer to the tool ranges of other brands. And with the brand image Festool has in the States, it'll be a big win for them.

And if it ends up in Home Depot I am selling all my tools.

Hilti used to be sold at Home Depot.  In my area they had a Hilti salesman there during normal work hours.  If Festool did something like that it could be huge for sales. 

 

[Bikeboy80]

Key words though...Used to Be!

I always just saw the rep standing there. I'm not sure how many homeowners would appreciate a higher end tool when there are so many cheaper options available there for their weekend project. [tongue]

 

[duburban]

what do all these theories mean for the quality of the product?

 

[skids]

It seems to me Festool has been building is a VERY strong brand image. Maybe even more so in the States than Europe.
Many over the Atlantic seem to believe it's the end all, be all brand of tools. Well guys, it's not. It's just a tool company that makes many of the better ones out there. And a company that has a very large marketing budget [eek] There also seems to be some mythical belief by many that something has to be made in Germany to be of great quality.

Protool is in no way or fashion less than Festool.  They're pretty much the same. The tools might even be designed to be a bit more resistant to wear and tear than Festool. Protools just have different colours. When point comes to shove, once these tools come out in the States with the green knobs and the Festool name on it, people will again say, they're the best tools they've ever seen and that they've introduced a new industry standard.
Nobody, but people that follow the industry closely, will know they used to be called Protool...

If anything, it will bring Festool into a couple of new market segments and bring it closer to the tool ranges of other brands. And with the brand image Festool has in the States, it'll be a big win for them.

And if it ends up in Home Depot I am selling all my tools.

Hilti used to be sold at Home Depot.  In my area they had a Hilti salesman there during normal work hours.  If Festool did something like that it could be huge for sales. 

Yeah they do that up here in MA too..But if Festool ends up at Home Depot I am out..Last thing I want to see is a Kapex in the rental area.  [wink]

Honeslty though, I am not sure why I just think those box stores downgrade everything, and if Festool chose this path, they would be downgrading their customer. They are the Wal-Marts of the tool/building material world.

 

[jmbfestool]

Kev! I would be more than happy to use and abuse the tools and then give honest feedback  [big grin]

This protool/festool merging doesn't really affect me to be honest.  I use 240v tools so protool being 240v doesn't affect me.
 I can buy protool tools just as easy as festool tools so no problem there.  
My protool batteries fit my festool jigsaw and drill and my festool batteries fit my protools. 

So to me if they where to change over it would only cosmetic to me.

 

[Brice Burrell]

Kev! I would be more than happy to use and abuse the tools and then give honest feedback  [big grin]

This protool/festool merging doesn't really affect me to be honest.  I use 240v tools so protool being 240v doesn't affect me.
 I can buy protool tools just as easy as festool tools so no problem there.  
My protool batteries fit my festool jigsaw and drill and my festool batteries fit my protools. 

So to me if they where to change over it would only cosmetic to me.

That's the million dollar question.  Will this turn out to be a cosmetic change only or will it have a bigger impact?  Who knows, it might be a change that pushes the Festool brand to new markets, more so here in the States.  That could be great for Festool and in turn all of us with an even broader range of tools in the future. 

 

[WarnerConstCo.]

This is still going on?

 

[Kodi Crescent]

I just finished a book titled "Cheap - The high cost of discount culture".  In it they talk about the box stores.  And they name Home Depot and Lowes among others.  If I remember correctly, these box stores set a price point and then tool manufacturers have to produce the tool to that price point.  They have offices in China to deal directly with the contract vendors who produce the tool.

Festool's business model doesn't fit that of the box stores.  It would take up shelf space and not turn over like the lower priced brands do.  The box stores are interested in volume, not service.