Protool to be absorbed by Festool?

[Bob Marino]

Hilti used to be sold at Home Depot.  In my area they had a Hilti salesman there during normal work hours.  If Festool did something like that it could be huge for sales. 
 
Above written by Brice Burrell.

  Brice,

We had the same situation here in NJ, but for whatever reason/reasons it has not worked out. HD sells Hilti, but there is no support other than store salespeople. As a dealer, I know there will come a day when we will see Festool/Protool in HD, BUT Festool takes a very, slooooooooooooooooooow and long term view of their USA market. They won't do that until they feel the time is right - the support must be there, or else the tools will collect dust as there won't be anyone to explain why they should buy  a 500.00 + router rather than the 150.00 one. Now, that would hurt Festool's image!
My opinion...and it is only my opinion - with nothing from Festool USA to support it is that we will see PROTOOL being sold in the Home Depots, not Festool.

Bob

I really don't think that model will work for Festool. Hilti tools don't require the level of support Festool does. The system approach is going require alot more than some retired plumber working part time at HD to understand how to sell and support. Hilti has done well through HD's rental area as well, I don't see Festool fitting in there. Maybe some of the Protool tools could go head-to-head with Hilti, but going the homecenter route for Festool would be downgrading their customer, and less aligned with a the slow, more organic growth approach they seem to have adopted for the US. Also, a quick scan of the vast majority of the demographic of folks shopping at Homecenters aren't exactly quality oriented to the level a Festool buyer is.

Over the years, before I ever knew of Festool, I did what I could to shop at suppliers who specialized in the material I needed. Lumber yards, plumbing supply, electrical etc..It's always worked well for me, and I have generally recevied great advice/support from knowledable people who typically aren't generalists. Home Depot, as it is for alot of shoppers, tends to be a place I go for bulk items, and quick in-and-out transactions. I have never gone there to learn anything about what I am buying, mostly just go for cheap prices.

My opinion, I just don't see it happening at all, or like you stated, anytime soon. If/when it does, because I am not saying it's not possible, my perception of the brand would certainly change.

Festool USA is only here as Festool USA, since about 2000 -2001 IIRC, so they are still in their infancy. Again, they look long term and will only make that type of move if all their stars and HD's are in alignment - no small task, agreed.
True, most HD shoppers are not concerned with getting the highest quality tools, but wouldn't it be convenient for all those HD contractors and hobbyists who own Festool/Protool tools to be able to take a short ride (in most cases) and get that sander or packs of abrasives right then and there?
 Though Festool is way, way more well known today than even in the last few years, and will never sacrifice quality for initial/next quarter profit, they have no desire to retain the semi-boutique tool company status they now enjoy. They want to be huge here - as they are in Europe. But they remain on their own timetable. I think, like Amazon, the HD or Lowes are too huge a market to ignore forever.
And I still think, we will see Protool, not Festool tools INITIALLY  in these venues.

Bob

 

[mouppe]

Bob, you don't see Festool in the European HD equivalents such as B&Q, Homebase, Obi etc. so what makes you think they'll pop up in Home Depot? I don't think it's Festools cup of tea.

 

[Bob Marino]

Bob, you don't see Festool in the European HD equivalents such as B&Q, Homebase, Obi etc. so what makes you think they'll pop up in Home Depot? I don't think it's Festools cup of tea.

I see it as way too large a market to ignore forever. I think there will be different ways of selling it there - not just dumped off in the store with no good means of support.  Maybe they will do this is only select HD stores. Just to re-emphasize, I have absolutely no information from Festool about this; none. It's just my opinion.

Bob

 

[Frank Pellow]

I really do not expect to ever see Festool sold in the big box stores.  And, I hope that I am correct.

 

[Bob Marino]

I really do not expect to ever see Festool sold in the big box stores.  And, I hope that I am correct.

I hear you Frank and am on your side- both as a customer and as a dealer. I just hope I'm wrong. Time will tell.

B

 

[tbellemare]

I think Festool and BORG or BBRG would be an odd marriage. If my understanding of the RG's business models is even somewhat accurate, it would be tough for a company like Festool to accommodate or swallow.

Just recently, the BORG ejected Fein after giving them a try for a while...

Tom

 

[skids]

Bob, you don't see Festool in the European HD equivalents such as B&Q, Homebase, Obi etc. so what makes you think they'll pop up in Home Depot? I don't think it's Festools cup of tea.

I see it as way too large a market to ignore forever. I think there will be different ways of selling it there - not just dumped off in the store with no good means of support.  Maybe they will do this is only select HD stores. Just to re-emphasize, I have absolutely no information from Festool about this; none. It's just my opinion.

Bob

Vendors who work with home depot have to meet certain requirements. Kohler's sinks are typically not the same as they are at a dedicated supplier. Or in the case of Anderson Window (who I consider a top-tier wood window Co.) what they sell on the shelf is very limited in sizes available, and knowledge on custom orders is spotty, and lead time is longer than a supplier. No sense getting Anderson through Home Depot, unless it's a Patio door in a standard size.

Festool is probably not set up to accomodate this model very well, without sacrificing quality which Homecenters ultimately ask vendors to do. At some point, economies of scale and quality come into direct conflict here in America, they just do. Maybe not the case in Europe..I just do not see HD ever becoming a distribution channel for Festool, but not impossible. Just takes one bad leadership decision.

Trying to convince someone to go to Home Depot and spend $1000 on a tool-fired vac and hand tool will be pretty tough when all they went in for was a Ryobi. And the Festool buyers account for such a tiny segment of potential buyers for HD, I can't imagine HD would even be interested at all in selling the Festool line at it's current pricing structure. 

 

[Bob Marino]

Bob, you don't see Festool in the European HD equivalents such as B&Q, Homebase, Obi etc. so what makes you think they'll pop up in Home Depot? I don't think it's Festools cup of tea.

I see it as way too large a market to ignore forever. I think there will be different ways of selling it there - not just dumped off in the store with no good means of support.  Maybe they will do this is only select HD stores. Just to re-emphasize, I have absolutely no information from Festool about this; none. It's just my opinion.

Bob

Vendors who work with home depot have to meet certain requirements. Kohler's sinks are typically not the same as they are at a dedicated supplier. Or in the case of Anderson Window (who I consider a top-tier wood window Co.) what they sell on the shelf is very limited in sizes available, and knowledge on custom orders is spotty, and lead time is longer than a supplier. No sense getting Anderson through Home Depot, unless it's a Patio door in a standard size.

Festool is probably not set up to accomodate this model very well, without sacrificing quality which Homecenters ultimately ask vendors to do. At some point, economies of scale and quality come into direct conflict here in America, they just do. Maybe not the case in Europe..I just do not see HD ever becoming a distribution channel for Festool, but not impossible. Just takes one bad leadership decision.

Trying to convince someone to go to Home Depot and spend $1000 on a tool-fired vac and hand tool will be pretty tough when all they went in for was a Ryobi. And the Festool buyers account for such a tiny segment of potential buyers for HD, I can't imagine HD would even be interested in selling it at the Festool line at it's current pricing structure. 

Again, we are only speculating on what Festool may or may not elect to do. I agree about having the need to have someone skilled/dedicated enough to explain to a customer why Festool tools are worth the extra coin. But I don't think Festool is thinking that they will convince a Ryobi owner hobbyist to buy those tools. That was never, is not and never will be their market. However, they may convince the slew of contractors to take a serious look.

 

[skids]

Bob, you don't see Festool in the European HD equivalents such as B&Q, Homebase, Obi etc. so what makes you think they'll pop up in Home Depot? I don't think it's Festools cup of tea.

I see it as way too large a market to ignore forever. I think there will be different ways of selling it there - not just dumped off in the store with no good means of support.  Maybe they will do this is only select HD stores. Just to re-emphasize, I have absolutely no information from Festool about this; none. It's just my opinion.

Bob

Vendors who work with home depot have to meet certain requirements. Kohler's sinks are typically not the same as they are at a dedicated supplier. Or in the case of Anderson Window (who I consider a top-tier wood window Co.) what they sell on the shelf is very limited in sizes available, and knowledge on custom orders is spotty, and lead time is longer than a supplier. No sense getting Anderson through Home Depot, unless it's a Patio door in a standard size.

Festool is probably not set up to accomodate this model very well, without sacrificing quality which Homecenters ultimately ask vendors to do. At some point, economies of scale and quality come into direct conflict here in America, they just do. Maybe not the case in Europe..I just do not see HD ever becoming a distribution channel for Festool, but not impossible. Just takes one bad leadership decision.

Trying to convince someone to go to Home Depot and spend $1000 on a tool-fired vac and hand tool will be pretty tough when all they went in for was a Ryobi. And the Festool buyers account for such a tiny segment of potential buyers for HD, I can't imagine HD would even be interested in selling it at the Festool line at it's current pricing structure. 

Again, we are only speculating on what Festool may or may not elect to do. I agree about having the need to have someone skilled/dedicated enough to explain to a customer why Festool tools are worth the extra coin. But I don't think Festool is thinking that they will convince a Ryobi owner hobbyist to buy those tools. That was never, is not and never will be their market. However, they may convince the slew of contractors to take a serious look.

Agreed, and speculating is fun.  [smile]

I recently tried to convince my local lumber yard, when the manager who I am friendly with, tried to convince me to buy a Dewalt tool, during a giant sidewalk Dewalt sponsored sale. I told him about Festool, and he was asking me about it and I told him the pricing and he immediately balked and said it just won't do well. He was interested, but in the end this comes down to how they do business and pricing. Now the reason I mention this, is because they consider themselves in direct competition with Home Depot to some extent and even they recognize what will and will not work with that type of customer. And quite honestly, I could make an argument that the contractor crowd is the toughest to convince Festool is worth the money. I have alot of friends in the business, some who laugh at Festool, think it's a gimmick, and some who LOVE it but refuse to spend the money on it. But you make a great point, if thats the target audience, Festool could do better to get it into their hands. Although word is spreading.

I guess my point is, price is the first obstacle for this scenario we are discussing. If Festool lowered it's prices then maybe they could be successful with the mass crowds at homecenters. Then support is an issue. Similar to when you go to Best Buy and try to get straight answers on Apple products, I would expect support would deteriorate. In the end, these are the things that I see as problems for Festool at Home Depot.

And that makes me happy since it will probably keep them out of there, and stay in the hands of knowledgable fellas like you Bob!!

 

[AlexThePalex]

And quite honestly, I could make an argument that the contractor crowd is the toughest to convince Festool is worth the money.

Here Festool is almost exclusively used by contractors and other professionals.

 

[skids]

And quite honestly, I could make an argument that the contractor crowd is the toughest to convince Festool is worth the money.

Here Festool is almost exclusively used by contractors and other professionals.

Probably the case here in the states too. Although as we can see from FOG, there is a cult hobbyist following as well. Festool is just not as widely adopted here in the US with contractors. 

 

[Bob Marino]

And quite honestly, I could make an argument that the contractor crowd is the toughest to convince Festool is worth the money.

Here Festool is almost exclusively used by contractors and other professionals.

Yep, that's their market, not the hobbyist concerned with a price point.

Bob

 

[skids]

And quite honestly, I could make an argument that the contractor crowd is the toughest to convince Festool is worth the money.

Here Festool is almost exclusively used by contractors and other professionals.

Yep, that's their market, not the hobbyist concerned with a price point.

Bob

Contractors are equally concerned with price point. Maybe moreso, where the hobbyist isn't concerned too much with margin.

 

[Bob Marino]

And quite honestly, I could make an argument that the contractor crowd is the toughest to convince Festool is worth the money.

Here Festool is almost exclusively used by contractors and other professionals.

Yep, that's their market, not the hobbyist concerned with a price point.

Bob

Contractors are equally concerned with price point. Maybe moreso, where the hobbyist isn't concerned too much with margin.

  Sure contractors have to watch the buck, but MOST also realize that buying on price, rather than quality is false economy. Not saying they will always buy top of the line, but most are smart enough to know that not the best way to save money.

Bob

 

[skids]

And quite honestly, I could make an argument that the contractor crowd is the toughest to convince Festool is worth the money.

Here Festool is almost exclusively used by contractors and other professionals.

Yep, that's their market, not the hobbyist concerned with a price point.

Bob

Contractors are equally concerned with price point. Maybe moreso, where the hobbyist isn't concerned too much with margin.

  Sure contractors have to watch the buck, but MOST also realize that buying on price, rather than quality is false economy. Not saying they will always buy top of the line, but most are smart enough to know that not the best way to save money.

Bob

My personal view is I agree, cheaper things aren't always the best choice. But to take it one step further. I think Festool, if I had to generalize, who it's aimed at it's not just the professional. It's the woodworker as well. And the Woodworker, by-and-large represents a large cross-section of the population; from hobbyist, to contractor, to cabinet maker. All may have varying priorities when making a purchase.

I haven't seen any other tool company able to span that wide a gap. It continues to amaze me how well the company is run, and how excellent their products are. But price, unfortunately, is a reality we all have to deal with. And with Festool, alot of times, it can come down to the law of diminishing returns, even for the professional.

 

[peter halle]

Hey, I just can't wait until they start manufacturing Festool here in the US.

Peter

 

[Timtool]

Rick, I personally believe there are more barriers and hurdles than you pointed out here that present themselves as significant roadblocks when considering bringing a line of product into any country, particularly the US.  It's not as simple as shipping the stuff over "regardless what the sticker was on the side of the tool."  I wish it was.

I hear ya, when the Belgian arms factory FN Herstal, won a contract for the US army they couldn't just import the weapons, they had to open a factory in the US and build them there. It's not as complex for other stuff, but it gives a general idea of a certain protectionism possibly a disguised way of discouraging import. But in the long term that leads to a lack of competition and weakens the home market, which possibly explains why when Festool came in there was nothing on the home market able to compete in that segment.

 

[Paul G]

Hey, I just can't wait until they start manufacturing Festool here in the US.

Peter

A lot of folks here would prefer it made in USA. Is that in the works?

 

[peter halle]

Hey, I just can't wait until they start manufacturing Festool here in the US.

Peter

A lot of folks here would prefer it made in USA. Is that in the works?

I am not starting the rumor.  [big grin]

Peter

 

[tbellemare]

If it will help your rumor, Peter, I think Volkswagon has 3 manufacturing plants in Mexico and one in Tennessee...

So yes, German auto manufacturing in Mexico.

Tom