Question about the LR 32 hole drilling system

[MadViking]

I currently use a home-made jig for making holes in cabinets and I plan on getting the Festool LR 32:
http://www.festool.co.uk/products/accessories/pages/detail.aspx?pid=584100&name=guide-stops-for-routers-lr-32-sys

Question is about the length of the guide rails. As I make mostly standard height cabinets I'll be getting the 1400 guide rail with holes. Is it easy to use the 1400 rail even for taller cabinets? The way I imagine it I would make the holes in the bottom half first, and then move the rail and realigning the holes. Or is this a real hassle and I should best get the 2424 rail also? This is something I want to avoid, as I won't use it much and it's quite expensive.

 

[Jeff Hein]

The new LR32 end stops allow you to join 2 rails together (with the correct 32mm spacing).

If you want to do some taller cabinets, you could opt for 2 1400 rails.

 

[harry_]

I just did a closet fit last week. 8 foot tall shelving units. I only have the shorter rail.

Is it easy, as in not complicated? Absolutely.

Is it easy, as in not a time consuming PITA? Absolutely not.

On an 8' unit, it is 3 setups/row, or 6 setups total/side. Huge time suck. What I found making it real pain to do was not the alignment or maintaining of the spacing. For me it was the clamping of the rail 'mid field', again not real hard to do, but uggh.

The guide rails have really good traction, no doubt about that, but I have experienced 'creeping' from not clamping when using the LR32. If you have the money, upgrade for the longer rail. You only have to pay the difference in price if you upgrade at time of purchase. I can pretty much guarantee that the first time you do a full height book case, you will be VERY glad that you did.

 

[BobKovacs]

I just did a closet fit last week. 8 foot tall shelving units. I only have the shorter rail.

Is it easy, as in not complicated? Absolutely.

Is it easy, as in not a time consuming PITA? Absolutely not.

On an 8' unit, it is 3 setups/row, or 6 setups total/side. Huge time suck. What I found making it real pain to do was not the alignment or maintaining of the spacing. For me it was the clamping of the rail 'mid field', again not real hard to do, but uggh.

The guide rails have really good traction, no doubt about that, but I have experienced 'creeping' from not clamping when using the LR32. If you have the money, upgrade for the longer rail. You only have to pay the difference in price if you upgrade at time of purchase. I can pretty much guarantee that the first time you do a full height book case, you will be VERY glad that you did.

That's why I'm still not sold on the LR32 system for anything other than huge projects with a lot of repetition.  When I've done 7'-8' builtins recently, I've used a small Wood River plexiglass template.  I register the template to the bottom of the piece, and have to 5 times to drill a row, but there's no up-front setup time, so that offsets the time for moving the template.  In most cases, I've only had maybe 4 pieces to drill (8 rows), so the time-suck of moving the template is minimal.   

Now, if I was doing a whole closet setup with 20+ pieces to drill, maybe the LR32 system would prove to be worth the money, but I can spend quite a bit of time moving templates before I can offset the $450 cost of the system- even at my exhorbitant hourly rate..... [scared]  Then again, with that many of the same pieces, I'd probably just order them pre-cut and pre-drilled from the local CNC shop and save both time and money.

 

[MadViking]

Thanks for the suggestions. The problem I see with having only the long 8' rail is that it will feel clumsy when working on smaller projects, and it's less portable and doesn't fit into the rail bag (FS-BAG). Hadn't realy thought about joining two shorter rails (duh....), but that seems like it might be the best solution for me.

Jeff: If I understand you correctly joining two of the smaller rails still means that all holes are 32mm apart, even the holes on either side of the joint?

 

[vkumar]

I am not Jeff, but the answer to your question is yes. The holes will be spaced properly even after joining.

Vijay

 

[ajones]

Thanks for the suggestions. The problem I see with having only the long 8' rail is that it will feel clumsy when working on smaller projects, and it's less portable and doesn't fit into the rail bag (FS-BAG). Hadn't realy thought about joining two shorter rails (duh....), but that seems like it might be the best solution for me.

Jeff: If I understand you correctly joining two of the smaller rails still means that all holes are 32mm apart, even the holes on either side of the joint?

Hi If you have two 1400 rails at the moment you could sell them and replace them with the lr32 rails

 

[Jeff Hein]

Thanks for the suggestions. The problem I see with having only the long 8' rail is that it will feel clumsy when working on smaller projects, and it's less portable and doesn't fit into the rail bag (FS-BAG). Hadn't realy thought about joining two shorter rails (duh....), but that seems like it might be the best solution for me.

Jeff: If I understand you correctly joining two of the smaller rails still means that all holes are 32mm apart, even the holes on either side of the joint?

This is the new connector that festool started shipping with all new LR32 systems: http://www.festoolproducts.com/Festool-496938-Longitudinal-stop-LA-LR-32-FS-p/496938.htm

This connector allows you to join 2 LR32 rails and keep the 32mm spacing.

The older LR32 systems came with a shorter stop that did not allow rails to be joined.

The new connector is only for spacing. You still need to use the standard guide rail connectors to keep the rails connected after they have been spaced properly.

 

[NuggyBuggy]

Why doesn't Festool just get rid of the standard rails and provide them all with the LR32 holes ? It seems that would make sense in a system context as well as an inventory standpoint.  Is there any good reason to NOT have the holes in a rail, besides the (likely minimal) manufacturing cost ? Personally, in this case I resent having to buy more rails because I feel like I am being milked for no good reason except that I can be.

When I last looked into this, the price differential between LR32 and non-LR32 rails was minimal.  Now, however, it seems to be much larger than I recalled.

 

[MadViking]

Thanks for the help guys. Most often my local Festool dealer can't answer my weird questions, I'm guessing he sells mostly the standard stuff (TS 55, Rotex etc) and knows very little about various add-ons. Feels like the FOG is the place to go - you guys know everything

Personally, in this case I resent having to buy more rails because I feel like I am being milked for no good reason except that I can be.

When I last looked into this, the price differential between LR32 and non-LR32 rails was minimal.  Now, however, it seems to be much larger than I recalled.

I have the exact same feeling, though in all honesty Festool isn't alone in this respect - Fein realy comes to mind. Here in Sweden the LR32 rails are 22% more expensive than the standard ones. That's quite a bit for just some holes. I'm guessing that 99% of all rails sold are the standard type (mostly for use with the TS 55/75), so I can see why they don't have the hole version as standard.

So a few final questions about the LR32 rails before I go and sell my standard ones:

1) Is it easy to connect/disconnect two different LR32 1400 rails using the above mentioned connector? Does it take significantly longer than connecting two standard rails?

2) Any major drawbacks to using the LR32 rails with any non-LR32 application (TS55, routing etc)? I can't realy think of any, perhaps chips/shavings getting stuck in the holes, but with the level of dustcollection I'm used to I can't realy see this happening often.

 

[ajones]

it will take seconds longer thats it.. and there is no disadvantage with the lr32 rail

 

[Arthouse Joinery]

I'm also looking at getting an LR32 SYS Set and was put off by the guide rail price. I was thinking as i have one FS 1400 guide rail, i could get another and maybe get them drilled by a machinist... Just need to know where the holes start and finish, and what the offset is from the edge of the rail to the holes, wonder if anyone has done that??

 

[harry_]

I'm also looking at getting an LR32 SYS Set and was put off by the guide rail price. I was thinking as i have one FS 1400 guide rail, i could get another and maybe get them drilled by a machinist... Just need to know where the holes start and finish, and what the offset is from the edge of the rail to the holes, wonder if anyone has done that??

doing this has been discussed in atleast one other thread. The consensus seems to have been buy the rails with the holes, ebay/craigslist the others as an offset if necessary. The rail holes are not round but slightly oval making things more interesting.

If I remember correctly, the LR32 comes with a drilled 1400 rail. I would recommend upgrading (which you can do for the difference in price) to the longer rail.

[2cents]

 

[Arthouse Joinery]

Oh i see, oval holes to make it hard for us to copy!! The bar stewards!

Thing is i'm in the same boat, i think i'd have to have the 2424 rail to be efficient, but it's too bulky for smaller cabinets. If i have to buy both rails, then plus the price of the set (doesn't come with the rail as standard) then i could go and buy a second hand Blum Mini-Press...., i'm thinking this will be my best option.

Thanks for the reply mate  8)

 

[Brice_Arnold]

The oval holes allow for calibration of the LR 32 System while still being able to index every 32mm and not being over constrained. That being said is it possible to purchase two shorter rails and connect them? Or is there a discontinuity where the two rails join. I have an older 1080 rail and a newer 1400 rail. I have not tried joining my rails.

As far as sending off a standard rail to a machine shop I can't see how this would be cost effective with typical shop rates, setup time, programming, machine time I couldn't imagine getting a single rail machined for less than a couple hundred dollars.

Edit: I see in the second post that it is possible to join two rails. I will have to try this once my LR 32 kit shows up.

 

[Ken Nagrod]

If you have two smaller LR32 rails and only the standard rail connectors, I found that an 8mm gap between the rails kept exact hole spacing for me.

 

[Brice Burrell]

If you have two smaller LR32 rails and only the standard rail connectors, I found that an 8mm gap between the rails kept exact hole spacing for me.

And remember you have a 8mm space right at hand, the Festool 8mm shank router bits. [thumbs up]

 

[Ken Nagrod]

Brice,

I wasn't smart enough to think of that, but then again I could easily have used my metric feeler gauges instead of checking repeatedly with my caliper.

 

[Les]

Joining rails is a pretty simple process but keeping them aligned when moving is not so much. If you move the joined rail, check to make sure it hasn't come out alignment. Be careful tightening the set screws or you can dimple the rail.